Complete cycle and diet revampation! THanks bros!

[JKurz1]

I've been completely shredded for TOO long..........it's time to stop starving myself as my test levels are being effected.....6'2, 185, 7-8%.....this is my plan....PLEASE GIVE ME YOU HONEST CRITISISM!!!


430 Preworkout
30g of protein

(post workout)
630 40g protein with at least 40g of dextrose

730
1 MRP w/ skim. handfull of peanuts, apple

930
1 whole egg scrabled, egg whites to fill 1 cup
3/4 cup oats
1 tb anpb
1 scoop whey

noon
1/2 lb ground beef
1 c brown rice
2c of green vegies

230
6oz chicken, , 250g of cottage cheese, tb peanut butter, scoop of whey

500
1/2lb ground beef,
large salad, 1/2 cup rice

730
large chicken breast, large salad

900 Bedtime
250g cottage cheese, scoop of casein, 3-4 handfulls of nuts.............


AND

dbol-25mg ed wks1-4 (you can never go to low on a dbol dose)
test (enth and sus) -500mg ew wks1-9
tren enanth-200e4d wks3-9
winny-50mg ed wks8-12

 

[SuperDawgy]

Looks like someone will be blowing up in short time. Good luck J! -Dawgy

 

[VictorBR]

3 things I would change .

1- I would ADD carbs in your pre workout meal .

2- I would run the test till week 9 only

3- I would run the tren from weeks 3-9 , instead of 3-8 .

So cycle would look like this :

dbol-25mg ed wks1-4 (you can never go to low on a dbol dose)
test (enth and sus) -500mg ew wks1-9
tren enanth-200e4d wks3-9
winny-50mg ed wks8-12

By doing this , you could begin PCT 48 hours after your last winny shot , since all the test would have cleared by then ... it takes 3-4 weeks to clear if using a long ester...


Victor

 

[JKurz1]

Looks like someone will be blowing up in short time. Good luck J! -Dawgy

Think I'll get fat bro if I toss in some cardio 3x a week after training or in the pm and on off days?


Vic - thanks bro..will do..but the carbs, I can't............I got to train at 430am do to work...no way I could get a meal in.............do you reccomend gatorade? Do you think this diet is too much? Honeslty.............

 

[JKurz1]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to SuperDawgy again

Also, Back routine with Max-Ot training style............this adequate?

Wednesday Back and biceps
Pulldowns x15, 10, 10

Bent rows x6, x6, x6

DB rows x6 x6 x6 Did them leaning forward slightly, no bench. Really felt good

Deads x 10, x 8, x 1, x4-5, x 4-5 x4-5

Barbell curls x8, x 6, x 6

Alt DB curls x4 x4 x5

Weighted hyperextensions 25x6 45x6

 

[SuperDawgy]

You'll put on some fat, but then again thats a good thing. 4 x 30min should keep you under 11-12%. What weight are you tryiing to get to?

 

[JKurz1]

F me...see....now you got me worried................I know I need to gain some fat and 5lbs or so, I can handle (I think)..........more than that and I'll lose it..........I'm on;y 185 now bro and at 6'2, I should be 250........

 

[SuperDawgy]

F me...see....now you got me worried................I know I need to gain some fat and 5lbs or so, I can handle (I think)..........more than that and I'll lose it..........I'm on;y 185 now bro and at 6'2, I should be 250........

Stop being a pretty boy! Blow up to about 230 and then carve it back down. You know how to! Winter is here, wear puffy clothes! Shit, i'm 5'8" and trying like hell to hit 240 before January. I know that after i cut it down, all will be right.

 

[JKurz1]

FMEMEMEMEMEEMEMFFUCCKKK/......Im a puss...well, it on tonight..............shrimp and pasta.............you just eat what the fuck ever?? I think I'll be decently ok with my layout at least, no?

 

[SuperDawgy]

FMEMEMEMEMEEMEMFFUCCKKK/......Im a puss...well, it on tonight..............shrimp and pasta.............you just eat what the fuck ever?? I think I'll be decently ok with my layout at least, no?

I'm not eating that bad, i'm just not trying to keep it perfect right now. Shrimp and pasta is good growth food! Just don't overthink things. Keep to the plan you have laid out and cheat when you feel like it. If you get a little too puffy, you'll know it and you can keep it in check that way. Thats one of the advantages to having been below 8%...you have a good barometer to go by.

 

[VictorBR]

yeah bro , you gotta find a way to add in some carbs . Even if it is high glycemic , it is better than nothing .

See, you go to bed at 9:30 and wake up 4:30 , so it is 7 hours without any food . Then you go to the gym to train , lift heavy ass weights without ANY CARBS ? Your strenght will go down bro ... eat some carbs in your first meal , even if it is gatorade . The ideal would be low glycemic but if you can't , go for high glycemic , WAY better than no carbs ...

About the diet , It looks good , but for detalied info I would have to ask how many cals are you eating and what is your BMR .

when bulking I follow a simple rule , it is never good to mix in fats and carbs. Well you can but it gotta be extremely low glycemic carbs and good fats .

So , I do it like this :

meal 1- protein + carbs

meal 2- protein + carbs

WEIGHT TRAINING .

meal 3 ( ASAP after training ) - protein + carbs - high glycemic carbs here and ZERO FAT .

meal 4- protein + carbs

meal 5 - protein + carbs + EFA

meal 6- protein + EFA

When bulking , since I am an endomorph , I end up eating 3.200 cals only . and I am 210 pounds .

Since you are an ecto , I think you could bump up the cals , but keep in mind protein builds muscle not excess calories . You don't need to EAT way above your BMR to build muscle . Just make sure you don't eat below your BMR and keep your protein high , and you should pack on the muscle without gaining any fat ...

if you are concerned about fat gain I would suggest something like this :

Example , let's say your BMR is 2.500 cals for example .

and let's say you spend 600 cals working out ED .

To grow without gaining fat you would have to eat 3.100 cals ED ( 2.500 from your BMR + 600 extra cals that you burn on the gym )

EVerytime you EAT more than that you are risking FAT GAIN .

EVerytime you EAT below that , and you are risking to not grow , it is possible to grow eating below your BMR , macro and fonz already explained why , but it is very hard , specially for an ectomorph .


Hope that helps


Victor

 

[JKurz1]

I don't believe in the pro+fats+carbs = FAT myth if the carbs are low glycemic and in moderation...not that you are wrong bro, just not my theory. I've combined all three at EVERY meal, dieting or not............as for counting cals, never counted a cal in my life. I count protein calories and everyhthing else in moderation..........I would wager my diet I posted is roughly 3,500 cals............where now, i'm consuming probable 2,500.......what do you think more or less?

 

[JKurz1]

AND, you think gatorade will work, make that much of a difference eh? Even if I eat like 2 secs before bed?

On the weekends Ill be ok, I can get in a few meals first...........but other than that, itll be rough!

 

[wellbilt]

loooks good kruz but you gotta get some carbs before training you could add 1-2 cups oatmeal to your 4:30 shake or bring some gatorade to the gym i use quaker oats the plain quick 1 minute oats there chopped up small so they cook faster so when you mix them in with your shake they get soft and go down easy good luck bro

 

[JKurz1]

loooks good kruz but you gotta get some carbs before training you could add 1-2 cups oatmeal to your 4:30 shake or bring some gatorade to the gym i use quaker oats the plain quick 1 minute oats there chopped up small so they cook faster so when you mix them in with your shake they get soft and go down easy good luck bro

Thanks felllas.....Maybe I'll do a quick oats whey shake???? 15 minutes before to soon??? Think my diet is on point though? I worked hard on it.....need to it do it naturally for awhile.....I just slammed two who plates of pasta, wth shrimp.....salad...2 glasses of wine.....peanuts........cottage cheese....im readddy boyssss

 

[Anakin]

The carbs+fat is more complicated than people think.

Adding fat to carbs will slow their digestion and therefore it will lower their GI.

Look at many foods with low GIs: it's because they have either fiber or fat. White potatoes are a complex carb but they have high GI because unless you eat em with skin, it digests and breaks down to a simple carb fast. A Snickers bar has a lot of sugar, but it's GI is moderate. Why? Because the fat in it slows down digestion. After all, GI simply means how fast carbs rush into your bloodstream in the form of simple sugars.

 

[VictorBR]

I don't believe in the pro+fats+carbs = FAT myth if the carbs are low glycemic and in moderation...not that you are wrong bro, just not my theory. I've combined all three at EVERY meal, dieting or not............as for counting cals, never counted a cal in my life. I count protein calories and everyhthing else in moderation..........I would wager my diet I posted is roughly 3,500 cals............where now, i'm consuming probable 2,500.......what do you think more or less?

>>>> Yeah like I said , if you use good fats and extremely low glycemic foods , it is ok .

About the cals , I think 3.500 is ok for someone that is 185 lbs and extomorph ... See the difference here ? I am endomorph , and I weight 210 lbs and I will bulk on 3300 cals . But 3.500 is fine for you since you are an ecto .


Victor

 

[casualbb]

bro at 185 and a cycle that heavy, just eat whatever

How much mass you gain will be a result of the sheer volume of food you can put down

 

[JKurz1]

THANKS BRO...............going to stay natty for awhile, till I learn to EAT!

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to casualbb again.

 

[JKurz1]

Oh, and the weekends.......f-it............everything is fair game as long as I get my protein in...........sound decent?

 

[JKurz1]

How about something like this: on PM traing days and cardio only

500am cardio 3xweek only, else still sleeping

630
1 tuna sandwhich on wheat, soop whey, 1/2 cup oats

930
1 whole egg scrabled, egg whites to fill 1 cup
1/2 - 3/4 cup oats
1 scoop whey
250g of cottage cheese with 1/2 apple

noon
1/2 lb ground beef
1 c brown rice
2c of green vegies

230
1/2 cup oats, , 250g of cottage cheese, tb peanut butter, scoop of whey

430 TRAIN

600
(post workout)
40g protein with at least 40g of dextrose

700
??? Yam? and 6oz chicken OR tuna sandwhich
large salad,

845
l250g of cottage cheese, MRP (myoplex/metrx w/ a banana) 3-4 handfulls of nuts.............OR a Peanut butter and banana sandwhich on wheat????

 

[casualbb]

Dude... calories calories calories

You don't have to eat like a farmer to put on good mass. If you're a natural ecto and starting at low BF... just BULK. Eat a lot of protein, eat a lot of everything

 

[JKurz1]

thanks

 

[Judo Tom]

i would not start a bulking cycle planning cardio on an empty stomach 3x a week.

i thought you had a post where you were gonna eat carbs before the workout? they are probably more important than taking it postworkout

add more cals to the 630 meal (olive oil/eggs) something

take your weight and multiply by 22 shoot for that many cals adjust as your weight goes up..

dont measure you bf for a few weeks.. the scale is gonna jump cause of water weight/nutrient loading dont mistake this for fat or muscle..

eat eat eat

 

[JKurz1]

i would not start a bulking cycle planning cardio on an empty stomach 3x a week.

i thought you had a post where you were gonna eat carbs before the workout? they are probably more important than taking it postworkout

add more cals to the 630 meal (olive oil/eggs) something

take your weight and multiply by 22 shoot for that many cals adjust as your weight goes up..

dont measure you bf for a few weeks.. the scale is gonna jump cause of water weight/nutrient loading dont mistake this for fat or muscle..

eat eat eat

Thanks bro...You are exactly right....I am going to take in gatorade with my whey when I train at 430am.....when I train at 430pm, I have a meal w/ crbs 1.5 hours prior......then carbs immidiately after......I'll figure out the cals tomorrow, got a ballpark estimate? My plan was to do cardio but just crank the calories........I think weight loss and gain is 99% diet anyways.....what do you think?

 

[JKurz1]

2 questions....what do you guys feel the deal with fruit (bananas in general) before bed, as in a ANPB sandwhich on wheat are? Fruit in general?

Also, would in be benefitital to run the tren and prop longer and more towards the end to harden up, or a waste?

 

[Judo Tom]

Thanks bro...You are exactly right....I am going to take in gatorade with my whey when I train at 430am.....when I train at 430pm, I have a meal w/ crbs 1.5 hours prior......then carbs immidiately after......I'll figure out the cals tomorrow, got a ballpark estimate? My plan was to do cardio but just crank the calories........I think weight loss and gain is 99% diet anyways.....what do you think?

diet is key. you obviously know how to cut and stay lean but know you have to experiment with a bulking plan.. i think your cycle is good.. ill assume your training is good so that leaves dieting for bulk and you have to be willing to change things and experiment to get the best results.

you might puke on leg days ifyou train eraly and drink gatorade... who knows
cardio at 5 my zap to much of your energy during some of the pm sessions? you might need 25-28 cals per lb of body weight (you are lean)

i think so long as you keep a log and are willing to change things as you go and dont mind a bit of bloat and a bit of fat you will be happy.

good luck

 

[Judo Tom]

2 questions....what do you guys feel the deal with fruit (bananas in general) before bed, as in a ANPB sandwhich on wheat are? Fruit in general?

Also, would in be benefitital to run the tren and prop longer and more towards the end to harden up, or a waste?

i hate ending cycles with tren hate it til no end.. if i have tren in a cycle i make sure i run test for 6 weeks with nothing else to help recovery.. everyone is different but thats what works for me..

fructose is not that bad especially mixed with the PB and the wheat. the insulin response from carbs is greatly reduced/extended when combined with other carbs(yep not just fat/protein)
fructose also goes to replinish liver glycogen which is beneficial at nite
wheat bread is low GI
pb has good fats
maybe add a bit of protein(egg/milk)

 

[JKurz1]

i hate ending cycles with tren hate it til no end.. if i have tren in a cycle i make sure i run test for 6 weeks with nothing else to help recovery.. everyone is different but thats what works for me..

fructose is not that bad especially mixed with the PB and the wheat. the insulin response from carbs is greatly reduced/extended when combined with other carbs(yep not just fat/protein)
fructose also goes to replinish liver glycogen which is beneficial at nite
wheat bread is low GI
pb has good fats
maybe add a bit of protein(egg/milk)

BINGO! THANKS..........i WILL KEEP this thread as a journal, please post critisms where you think it's necessary to make a change.

So if I train at 430pm, shake at 530pm and bed is by 9pm, how would you finagle my diet?

630 - 6oz yam, 6oz chicken, green beans
830 - 1 cup skim, 3-4 handfulls of peanut butter, 250g of cottage cheese

is what I had last night - could I toss in a ANPB and banana with no ill effects?

What I decided to do was keep the cardio in the am (for sanity), but reduce it to a 20minute HIIT session on the elliptical. 30 second sprints with increasing resistance.......instead of my normal 35 minute of 65-75% max HR cardio..........then, with the increase in calories, hopefully I will see results, if not, I know I need to cut down the cardio....thoughts?

 

[JKurz1]

Tuesday Pearl Harbor Day (12-7-04)
430 - 25 Minute Cardio (20minute Hiit On Elliptical)
600 - 1/2 Cup Oats, 1 Tuna Sandwhich On Whole Wheat, 1 Scoop Of Whey
900 - 3/4 Cup Oats, 250g Of Cottage Cheese, 1tb Of Anpb, 1 Cup Of Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Whey, 1 Cup Of Skim In Coffee\
NOON - 4OZ Chicken, 4oz beef, 1 cup rice and beans, 2-3 cups veggies, salad

THis is what I've had thus far............next meal is slated for 230 with training at 430...........was thinking about 1/2cup oats, 250g cottage cheese, 1tb of peanut butter, 1 scoop of whey.....should I add in a ANPB and banana sandwhich......also, what should I do postworkout - after my shake, before bed?

 

[Judo Tom]

BINGO! THANKS..........i WILL KEEP this thread as a journal, please post critisms where you think it's necessary to make a change.

So if I train at 430pm, shake at 530pm and bed is by 9pm, how would you finagle my diet?

630 - 6oz yam, 6oz chicken, green beans
830 - 1 cup skim, 3-4 handfulls of peanut butter, 250g of cottage cheese

is what I had last night - could I toss in a ANPB and banana with no ill effects?

What I decided to do was keep the cardio in the am (for sanity), but reduce it to a 20minute HIIT session on the elliptical. 30 second sprints with increasing resistance.......instead of my normal 35 minute of 65-75% max HR cardio..........then, with the increase in calories, hopefully I will see results, if not, I know I need to cut down the cardio....thoughts?

i actually like the 65% cardio while bulking but i dont think it matters much..

that seems pretty good i would stick with that plan or something similar for a week.. you weight will go up due to water retention and then every week or so i would add between 200-500 cals a day extra (best to add around workouts) and see how the scale/mirror changes

ill keep chiming in.. im kinda bored at work

good luck

 

[JKurz1]

could I toss in a ANPB and banana with no ill effects?

 

[chyllaxyn]

Excellent thread!!
, heck I made like a page of diet notes.

 

[JKurz1]

some knowledable bros on here.....stay tuned....its just begun.......

 

[gimp]

IMO..you need to eat more food than you've listed. You are lean and have been for some time I gather, so your metabolism is likely flying high. I would bump up the cals at all meals by either adding more carbs or protein.

 

[JKurz1]

http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/DayFoodsTab.asp

cant be right........can it from my diet?????????????

 

[JKurz1]

IMO..you need to eat more food than you've listed. You are lean and have been for some time I gather, so your metabolism is likely flying high. I would bump up the cals at all meals by either adding more carbs or protein.

Can you give me some examples?

Especially post workout and before bed.........I don't feel like I'm putting on any weight........here's what I had yesterday:
Tuesday Pearl Harbor Day (12-7-04)
430 - 25 Minute Cardio (20minute Hiit On Elliptical)
600 - 1/2 Cup Oats, 1 Tuna Sandwhich On Whole Wheat, 1 Scoop Of Whey
900 - 3/4 Cup Oats, 250g Of Cottage Cheese, 1tb Of Anpb, 1 Cup Of Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Whey, 1 Cup Of Skim In Coffee\
NOON - 4OZ Chicken, 4oz beef, 1 cup rice and beans, 2-3 cups veggies, salad
230 - 1/2 cup oatd, 1 scoop whey, 250g of cottage cheese, 1tb of ANPB
530 - PW SHAKE
700 - 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 banana, 1 cup egg whites, scoop of whey
900 - 4-5 handfuls of nuts, 250g of cottage cheese..........

I'd love to toss in another 2-3 sandwhiches, maybe a ANPB and banana or 6, just dont know where..........

 

[Judo Tom]

add cals to these meals first

230 - 1/2 cup oatd, 1 scoop whey, 250g of cottage cheese, 1tb of ANPB
530 - PW SHAKE
700 - 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 banana, 1 cup egg whites, scoop of whey
900 - 4-5 handfuls of nuts, 250g of cottage cheese..........


if your not sure what to add try extra virgin olive oil

or try this

230 - 1/2 cup oatd, 1 scoop whey, 250g of cottage cheese, 1tb of ANPB
1cup 2 scoops more 2tb
530 - PW SHAKE
add olive oil or olive oil dipped in wheat bread
700 - 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 banana, 1 cup egg whites, scoop of whey
1 cup 2 bannana's 2 cup of EGGS 2 scoops of whey
900 - 4-5 handfuls of nuts, 250g of cottage cheese..........
9-10 more


just keep adding

 

[JKurz1]

add cals to these meals first

230 - 1/2 cup oatd, 1 scoop whey, 250g of cottage cheese, 1tb of ANPB
530 - PW SHAKE
700 - 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 banana, 1 cup egg whites, scoop of whey
900 - 4-5 handfuls of nuts, 250g of cottage cheese..........


if your not sure what to add try extra virgin olive oil

or try this

230 - 1/2 cup oatd, 1 scoop whey, 250g of cottage cheese, 1tb of ANPB
1cup 2 scoops more 2tb
530 - PW SHAKE
add olive oil or olive oil dipped in wheat bread
700 - 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 banana, 1 cup egg whites, scoop of whey
1 cup 2 bannana's 2 cup of EGGS 2 scoops of whey
900 - 4-5 handfuls of nuts, 250g of cottage cheese..........
9-10 more


just keep adding

Hey bro - NO FATS IN YOUR PW SHAKE!!! You know that! So nix it......as for my 230 meal how about:
1/2 ANPB and banana sandhich on wheat
250 g of cottage cheese 1/2 apple
1/2 cu oats, 1 cup skim......too much?

 

[Judo Tom]

i guess now is not the time for me to say i think that pw fats would do anything negative.. ill save that or youll make fun of me

at first there is nothing to much.. you are gonna hold yourself back if you think that wait til you got a roll or two to worry about "too much"

but the wheat bread dipped in olive oil and deli meat sandwiches on wheat bread where the absolute KEY to my best bulking diet ever its such a convenient way to add QUALITY cals with lil to no prep work

i did that when i was working 60-70 hrs a weekand it was still my best cycle ever real complicated too.. it was test stacked with test

good luck!!!

 

[JKurz1]

i guess now is not the time for me to say i think that pw fats would do anything negative.. ill save that or youll make fun of me

at first there is nothing to much.. you are gonna hold yourself back if you think that wait til you got a roll or two to worry about "too much"

but the wheat bread dipped in olive oil and deli meat sandwiches on wheat bread where the absolute KEY to my best bulking diet ever its such a convenient way to add QUALITY cals with lil to no prep work

i did that when i was working 60-70 hrs a weekand it was still my best cycle ever real complicated too.. it was test stacked with test

good luck!!!

how many sandwhiches should I add bro and at what times? Remember, I'm sedetary in an office ALL DAY!!

 

[Judo Tom]

i would add the extra cals close to the workout before and the 2-3 meals after that is

just keep adding meals and cals until your bf goes up a bit and then cut a meal back.. if the gains slow add it back.. just keep adjusting as the cycle goes..

i adjust my diet depending on how hard my workouts are.. what my body tells me .. what the scale says and what the mirror shows..

im sure you have done the same while cutting? now just do the opposite while bulking

2 slices of wheat bread and 3 slices of turkey probably doesnt break 350 cals so its not much but its pretty good quality at the same time.. so its not gonna turn you into shamu overnite

good luck

 

[JKurz1]

i would add the extra cals close to the workout before and the 2-3 meals after that is

just keep adding meals and cals until your bf goes up a bit and then cut a meal back.. if the gains slow add it back.. just keep adjusting as the cycle goes..

i adjust my diet depending on how hard my workouts are.. what my body tells me .. what the scale says and what the mirror shows..

im sure you have done the same while cutting? now just do the opposite while bulking

2 slices of wheat bread and 3 slices of turkey probably doesnt break 350 cals so its not much but its pretty good quality at the same time.. so its not gonna turn you into shamu overnite

good luck

Right on bro.........so what if I have a sandwhich post training and one pre-training? ANPB and banana??? It would like like this:

430 - 25 Minute Cardio (20minute Hiit On Elliptical)
600 - 1/2 Cup Oats, 1 Tuna Sandwhich On Whole Wheat, 1 Scoop Of Whey
900 - 3/4 Cup Oats, 250g Of Cottage Cheese, 1/2 apple, 1tb Of Anpb, 1 Cup Of Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Whey, 1 Cup Of Skim In Coffee
NOON - 4OZ Chicken, 4oz beef, 1 cup rice and beans, 2-3 cups veggies, salad
230 - 1/2 cup oats, 1 scoop whey, 250g of cottage cheese, 1/2 apple 1tb of ANPB
530 - PW SHAKE
700 - 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 banana, 1 cup egg whites, scoop of whey
900 - 4-5 handfuls of nuts, 250g of cottage cheese..........

Any better bro?

ALSO, I have about SEVEN boxes of EAS myoplex high protein, low carb bars....yeah, yeah, I know they are junk, but I won them........so, would you toss a few in here and there on top of my meals or just bag em?

 

[biggeek]

ALSO, I have about SEVEN boxes of EAS myoplex high protein, low carb bars....yeah, yeah, I know they are junk, but I won them........so, would you toss a few in here and there on top of my meals or just bag em?

I would say not to take them.. not good for your diet.. but GREAT for mine.. so i'll pay the shipping and you can send all 7 boxes to me..

 

[JKurz1]

Cmon....seriously....what would you do with them? Add em in? 1 do owe ya a box for the help......

 

[gimp]

your diet is too clean....LOL! SERIOUSLY, if you wanna add size...simply cheat once per day. Example...grab 2 plain hamburgers at a McDonald's when driving home from work, eat a pice of cheesecake with one of your meals, switch to whole milk, eat more egg yolks, eat a bag of cashews at your desk, use medium ground beef instead of lean ground beef....I eat clean and cheat like I've mentioned above...adds size nicely.

 

[Judo Tom]

add the bars in why not.. im sure there will be times when your driving somwhere or something and havent eaten in an hour or so or wont be able to eat for an hour or so they are way better then nothing and not bad if you are still getting lots of protein from food

and IMO its better than a cheat meal and better than not eating..especially if you dont mind the taste and if they dont fill you up much

good luck bro!