Closed Circuit Vs Open Circuit movements

[SlavikHavik]

Anyone know the difference.

The guys over at t-nation made a comment in an acrticle sounded something like "chins are superior to pulldowns mostly because they are a closed circuit movement... but thats another article"
I never found that article

Im familiar with what movements are closed circuit and which are open, but does anybody know why each has a unique effect?

 

[InTraining]

Good question...

I think it has something to do with close-chain movements recruiting more muscle fibers...not 100% sure on that though

 

[mekannik]

I remember the article you are talking about, may take a while to find. In the meantime, here is a short answer to your question regarding your vesus question....

From T-Mag:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461515

Q: Last June, I was involved in an avalanche and completely tore the PCL in my right knee, in addition to partially tearing my MCL and spraining my ACL. Over the past few months, I've experienced additional pain in my MCL. An orthopedic doctor told me that my knees had already started to exhibit arthritis (pre-accident) and that the condition would just worsen as I get older?I'm 43 years old. He also instructed me not to perform any open-chain hamstring exercises, due to my PCL. He mentioned that squats, partial squats, and leg press were okay. But when he said that I shouldn't perform deadlifts, I didn't trust him. Please recommend any exercises and supplements that can help with my situation.

A: Even though the terms "open-chain" and "closed-chain" are getting to be a bit overused, your doc was right about open-chain hamstring exercises. We think he may have been worried about the effects of stiff-legged deadlifts, since they particularly target the hamstrings. Without a functioning PCL, you have to limit the amount of hamstring exercise you do because the excessive translation of your tibia over your femur (or vice versa) can wear down your articular cartilage. However, he was correct in that exercises which promote co-contraction of the quads and hams, like squats and leg presses, are beneficial.

Stay with closed-chain movements (always with one foot in contact with the ground). Lunges are good, as well as step-up/step-downs and stairs. Regarding supplements for arthritis, two products to consider are Cosamin-DS (1-800-925-5187) and Wobenzym-N (1-800-222-4405, extension 427). Both products may prove beneficial independently, but expect it to take up to three months before you see results. We think that, by taking both products simultaneously, you should get relief of the inflammation as well as initiate repair of the articular cartilage. You should also seek out the help of a qualified ART practitioner (call 1-719-473-7000 for a referral) to speed things up. Please let us know how you make out.

 

[SlavikHavik]

I remember the article you are talking about, may take a while to find. In the meantime, here is a short answer to your question regarding your vesus question....

From T-Mag:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461515

Q: Last June, I was involved in an avalanche and completely tore the PCL in my right knee, in addition to partially tearing my MCL and spraining my ACL. Over the past few months, I've experienced additional pain in my MCL. An orthopedic doctor told me that my knees had already started to exhibit arthritis (pre-accident) and that the condition would just worsen as I get older?I'm 43 years old. He also instructed me not to perform any open-chain hamstring exercises, due to my PCL. He mentioned that squats, partial squats, and leg press were okay. But when he said that I shouldn't perform deadlifts, I didn't trust him. Please recommend any exercises and supplements that can help with my situation.

A: Even though the terms "open-chain" and "closed-chain" are getting to be a bit overused, your doc was right about open-chain hamstring exercises. We think he may have been worried about the effects of stiff-legged deadlifts, since they particularly target the hamstrings. Without a functioning PCL, you have to limit the amount of hamstring exercise you do because the excessive translation of your tibia over your femur (or vice versa) can wear down your articular cartilage. However, he was correct in that exercises which promote co-contraction of the quads and hams, like squats and leg presses, are beneficial.

Stay with closed-chain movements (always with one foot in contact with the ground). Lunges are good, as well as step-up/step-downs and stairs. Regarding supplements for arthritis, two products to consider are Cosamin-DS (1-800-925-5187) and Wobenzym-N (1-800-222-4405, extension 427). Both products may prove beneficial independently, but expect it to take up to three months before you see results. We think that, by taking both products simultaneously, you should get relief of the inflammation as well as initiate repair of the articular cartilage. You should also seek out the help of a qualified ART practitioner (call 1-719-473-7000 for a referral) to speed things up. Please let us know how you make out.

Hmm, SLDL is a closed chaim movement?
I always assumed that movements where the force comes through your body because of pushing or pulling against the ground was considered closed chain.
Do you know what defines each catagorey
and what movements are in each.

I thought
Pushups, Squats, Chins, Dips of all kinds, Were Closed chain.
and
Bicep Curls, Bench Press, Pull Downs, deadlifts were open chain.

 

[supreme]

You are right in your thinking but remember it can be more complicated during some movements / sports.

To simplify it - think of it this way:

closed kinetic chain is where you feet or hands (pushups) are in contact with the ground

Open is where there is no contact with the ground with the limbs exercising (leg extension, pulldown )

Your choice of exercise should match the biomechanical specificity of the sport. Example: rock climbers need pullps & chinups not pulldowns, a wrestler would do better with weighted push ups & dips then benches, a power lifter needs squats & deads and should throw the fucking leg extension machine at the pencil necks.

S

 

[SlavikHavik]

You are right in your thinking but remeber it can be more complicated during some movements / sports.

To simplify it - think of it this way:

closed kinetic chain is where you feet or hands (pushups) are in contact with the ground

Open is where there is no contact with the ground with the limbs exercising (leg extension, pulldown )

Your choice of exercise should match the biomechanical specificity of the sport. Example: rock climbers need pullps & chinups not pulldowns, a wrestler would do better with weighted push ups & dips then benches, a power lifter needs squats & deads and should throw the fucking leg extension machine at the pencil necks.

S

Thanks, that makes things clear.
So Why is it that just having your feet or hands conected to the ground makes such a big difference.

What about bench? closed or open. My impression is that with most monday night chest and biceps lifters bench is an open chain movement (they could have their feet in the air... and sometimes they do when theyre trying to finish a rep, and it wouldnt matter) but a PL bench press is closed chain, being that the feet are firmly planted on the ground and driving to create power.

 

[mekannik]

Thanks, that makes things clear.
So Why is it that just having your feet or hands conected to the ground makes such a big difference.

What about bench? closed or open. My impression is that with most monday night chest and biceps lifters bench is an open chain movement (they could have their feet in the air... and sometimes they do when theyre trying to finish a rep, and it wouldnt matter) but a PL bench press is closed chain, being that the feet are firmly planted on the ground and driving to create power.

If I am following the definition established - then bench press is pressing against a "free floating" bar, where as pushups are pushing against the earth - and your body acts as the "free floating" weight.


But I do remember some confusion on classifying what excercise gets placed in each category. Hope I helped to clarify a little.


And yes - I am still looking for the original article over on T-mag. Can not remember the author's name.