Clomid Tripping!!!

[jp123]

I have been using clomid and last night, I was a bit stoned and started seeing the lights. Some people may find that scary at first, but I was loving it since you guys told me to expect it. (I almost wanted to take more ) How often do those lights apear? The more the better. lol

 

[macrophage69alpha]

the appearance of tracers is not a good thing, its not a terribly bad thing. But in some cases, with extended use, it appears to be permanent ( women clinicals + case studies)- though not aware of any bodybuilders that have had this issue.

 

[jp123]

the appearance of tracers is not a good thing, its not a terribly bad thing. But in some cases, with extended use, it appears to be permanent ( women clinicals + case studies)- though not aware of any bodybuilders that have had this issue.

What is the cause of tracers. I have read many posts that refer to them, none explain.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

AS A NOTE- THESE ARE VERY UNCOMMON REACTIONS

while the visual disturbances, tracers, are fairly common. like any drug some people can have a strong adverse reaction.


1: Arch Ophthalmol. 1995 Apr;113(4):482-4. Links
Visual disturbance secondary to clomiphene citrate.Purvin VA.
Midwest Eye Institute, Methodist Hospital of Indiana, Indianapolis, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To identify a distinctive constellation of persistent visual abnormalities secondary to treatment with clomiphene citrate. DESIGN: Description of the clinical findings in three patients with visual disturbance secondary to clomiphene treatment. SETTING: A neuro-ophthalmology referral center. PATIENTS: Three women aged 32 to 36 years treated for infertility with clomiphene for 4 to 15 months. RESULTS: All three patients experienced prolonged afterimages (palinopsia), shimmering of the peripheral field, and photophobia while undergoing treatment with clomiphene. The results of the neuro-ophthalmologic examination and electrophysiologic studies were normal in all three patients. Unlike previously reported cases, visual symptoms did not resolve on cessation of treatment. Patients remain symptomatic from 2 to 7 years after discontinuing treatment with the medication. CONCLUSIONS: Treatment with clomiphene can cause prolonged visual disturbance. Patients who develop such symptoms should be advised that continued administration may cause irreversible changes. Women with characteristic visual symptoms should be questioned about past use of clomiphene.


: Fertil Steril. 1994 Feb;61(2):390-1. Links
Optic neuropathy associated with clomiphene citrate therapy.Lawton AW.
Department of Ophthalmology, Louisiana State University School of Medicine, New Orleans.

A 31-year-old woman developed acute visual loss in her right eye immediately after a 5-day course of CC for primary infertility. Although she gradually recovered vision, she did not return to 20/20 acuity in that eye. As CC may cause vascular sludging, it is hypothesized that increased blood viscosity resulted in sufficiently reduced flow in a posterior ciliary artery to produce an anterior ischemic optic neuropathy. Patients experiencing visual symptoms while taking clomiphene should have their eyes examined promptly for evidence of visual changes or optic nerve injury.


if you have tracers consistently then you should cut your dosage back, if they do not go away, then you should stop.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

tamoxifen is not better and may be worse when it comes to visual issues

1: Int Ophthalmol. 2006 Sep 15; [Epub ahead of print] Links
Tamoxifen therapy conveys increased risk of developing a macular hole.Cronin BG, Lekich CK, Bourke RD.
, 50 Herbert Street, Paddington, Qld 4064, Australia, [email protected].

PURPOSE: To determine etiological factors in the development of, as well as anatomic success rate and visual outcome of a large consecutive series of macular hole surgeries. METHODS: Retrospective analysis of 300 consecutive cases of macular hole surgery by a single surgeon (RDB) between 1999 and 2003. Patients' medical and surgical histories were recorded and analysed for factors involved in aetiology and visual outcome. RESULTS: There were 8 (4.12%) women, on tamoxifen in the study, two of these women had bilateral macular holes. When this study prevalence of tamoxifen therapy (4.12%) was compared to the estimated percentage of women in the same age group in the Australian population on tamoxifen (0.82%), a statistically significant difference (p value 0.0001) was found. Analysis of the number of bilateral holes in the tamoxifen group compared to the non-tamoxifen group was suggestive of an increased incidence of bilateral holes but not to a significantly significant degree. CONCLUSION: Whilst no published reports link tamoxifen and macular holes, this may be due to the low incidence of the condition. Our study demonstrates a strong link between tamoxifen use and macular holes. Patients being commenced on tamoxifen should be advised of possible ocular complications and receive prompt ophthalmic review if symptoms develop.

1: Cancer. 2006 Feb 1;106(3):505-13. Links
Ocular toxicity during adjuvant chemoendocrine therapy for early breast cancer: results from International Breast Cancer Study Group trials.Gianni L, Panzini I, Li S, Gelber RD, Collins J, Holmberg SB, Crivellari D, Castiglione-Gertsch M, Goldhirsch A, Coates AS, Ravaioli A; International Breast Cancer Study Group (IBCSG).
Division of Oncology and Hematology, Hospital degli Infermi, Rimini, Italy. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Others have reported ocular toxicity after adjuvant chemoendocrine therapy, but this study looked at ocular toxicity in similarly treated patients from large randomized clinical trials. METHODS: Information was retrieved on incidence and timing of ocular toxicity from the International Breast Cancer Study Group (IBCSG) database of 4948 eligible patients randomized to receive tamoxifen or toremifene alone or in combination with chemotherapy (either concurrently or sequentially). Case reports of patients with ocular toxicity were evaluated to determine whether ocular toxicity occurred during chemotherapy and/or hormonal therapy. Additional information was obtained from participating institutions for patients in whom ocular toxicity occurred after chemotherapy but during administration of tamoxifen or toremifene. RESULTS: Ocular toxicity was reported in 538 of 4948 (10.9%) patients during adjuvant treatment, mainly during chemotherapy. Forty-five of 4948 (0.9%) patients had ocular toxicity during hormone therapy alone, but only 30 (0.6%) patients had ocular toxicity reported either without receiving any chemotherapy or beyond 3 months after completing chemotherapy and, thus, possibly related to tamoxifen or toremifene. In 3 cases, retinal alterations, without typical aspects of tamoxifen toxicity, were reported; 4 patients had cataract (2 bilateral), 12 impaired visual acuity, 10 ocular irritation, 1 optical neuritis, and the rest had other symptoms. CONCLUSION: Ocular toxicity during adjuvant therapy is a common side effect mainly represented by irritative symptoms due to chemotherapy. By contrast, ocular toxicity during hormonal therapy is rare and does not appear to justify a regular program of ocular examination. However, patients should be informed of this rare side effect so that they may seek prompt ophthalmic evaluation for ocular complaints. Copyright (c) 2005 American Cancer Society.


1: Clin Experiment Ophthalmol. 2004 Feb;32(1):105-6. Links
Tamoxifen optic neuropathy.Colley SM, Elston JS.
A 68-year-old woman with metastatic breast cancer presented with slowly progressive visual loss in each eye. Electrophysiology confirmed bilateral optic neuropathies. Investigations to determine the cause of the vision loss were negative. Cessation of tamoxifen resulted in a dramatic improvement in acuity.

PMID: 14746604 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[njmuscleguy]

so where does that leave someone who might have bad reactions to both nolva *and* clomid?

 

[KOArtist]

^^^^^i guess....blind as a bat!?^^^^

 

[macrophage69alpha]

so where does that leave someone who might have bad reactions to both nolva *and* clomid?

AI + HCG

 

[solidspine]

Ditto, clomid never again

AI + HCG

 

[njmuscleguy]

AI + HCG

well, not that I'm an authority on PCT, god knows I'm still trying to nail down the perfect one... but if AI + HCG were sufficient, then why bother with SERM's? Does this combo do the job only slower than if an SERM was added?

At first I thought HCG was what "jump-started" the HPTA (I know that's not really the case)... and an AI is to deal with excess estrogen... and isn't that what the SERM is for as well? So *what* exactly gets the body to start doing it's thing?

 

[stressman13]

I have been using clomid and last night, I was a bit stoned and started seeing the lights. Some people may find that scary at first, but I was loving it since you guys told me to expect it. (I almost wanted to take more ) How often do those lights apear? The more the better. lol

For even superior trails try mdma + acid.....