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clen & heart

with respect to the "slowed heart rate", yes that is a potential effect of down regulated beta 2.


with respect to apoptic effects:

J Appl Physiol. 2005 Apr;98(4):1379-86. Epub 2004 Dec 10. Related Articles, Links


beta2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores Univ., Webster St., Liverpool, L3 2ET, United Kingdom. [email protected]

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist clenbuterol can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known whether this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte-specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections via a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed with annexin V, single-strand DNA labeling, and terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase-mediated dUTP nick-end labeling). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg/kg , with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.05%; P < 0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg/kg. In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2%; P < 0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg/kg. Cardiomyocyte apoptosis was detected throughout the ventricles, atria, and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way, from the apex toward the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol, or ICI 118551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that, when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.
 
So the bottom line is that clen may have some serious consequences even when "used" and not "abused".

This is scary stuff. I wonder if there is any data concerning humans. Are rat cells similar enough to human cells for these studies to be conclusive?
 
so are there any supps anyone would reccomend using instead of clen that could possibly yield similar results? i dont wanna kill my heart, but dam i want that 6pac.
 
there are a number of compounds that are metabolic stimulants that are not strong beta agonists. Thermorexin and cardio breeze are among them, just plain caffiene- though alone its not what one would call comparable. Also there are a number of non stimulatory metabolics agent Green tea (egcg), Sesapure (sesamin/episesamin), Cayenne (capsicanoids), Evoida fructis (evodiamine) and a host of others as well.
 
just a note- its not wholely clear what dosage human risk becomes apparent (though the studies do indicate what appears to be correlative with doses that are commonly used (though not lower end doses)-- however, that being said humans are typically more sensitive to beta adrenergic activation.
 
I think it's sensible to stay clear of clen if you're at all concerned for heart health, there are too many unknowns pertaining to this compound and how much damage it can do. I've used it myself in the past (before I came across the studies), I wouldn't use again, risk outweighs the benefits for me.

Out of curiosity has anyone come across a recorded case (in humans) where clen was identified as the cause of a serious heart issue?
 
This could be why it is agreed Clen should be used for only 12 weeks with a 2 week on, 2 week off cycle.

If so, how long would one have to wait after the 12 week period before starting Clen again?
 
Clen and Eph both speed the fuck up out of your heart and are on a par with speed and coke in my opinion. Will never touch that shit again, just do more cv and diet harder to get lean.
 
They might speed the fuck out of your heart, but its the damage they do that I am interested in, if any. Any other research.
 
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