Chucks AND Olympic Lifting Shoes

[b fold the truth]

Ok...tonight I took some pics after I squatted in both my Chucks and my Olympic Lifting Shoes. I hope that I can explain this decent enough...

A wide-stance squatter must be able to spread the floor in two. They should press down and try to rip the carpet straight down the middle between their feet as they squat, which activates the hips. The hips, hamstrings, and glutes being the primary movers...should be stronger than the quads and glutes being the primary movers.

Here is me with my Chucks...you can see that I am trying to spread the floor and force the shoes to ROLL OUT to the right. The shoes stop me from rolling and give me a 'wall' to press up against which helps with hip activation...

Another view where you can actually see my foot pushing hard against the outside wall...the rubber outter wall keeps them from rolling because the sole is actually above the bottom of the foot.

Here is me trying to do the same thing with my Adidas Olympic Lifting Shoes.

Here the shoe is about 1/2" to 1" off the floor because the shoe rolls over on it's side.

Another view where you can see the shoe turning and rolling. I have no stability like this.

Last one. You can actually see that it changes the stress from the shoes and my feet pressing against them to my ankle as it falls over. With no weight it was painful on my ankles...

I hope that this made some sense and showed how Chucks are superior for wide stance squatters, like myself.

B True

 

[coolcolj]

pretty common sense stuff

But I suspect not all powerlifters squat the way westsiders do though.

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

B-- problem w/Chucks is that the toe-box is very wide & peeps w/narrow feet cant fit in them. I cant squat in them at all

 

[JT Iron]

pretty common sense stuff

But I suspect not all powerlifters squat the way westsiders do though.

Apparently it's not that common sense, since you posted a thread on page two asking why anyone would squat or deadlift heavy in Chucks.

 

[b fold the truth]

pretty common sense stuff

But I suspect not all powerlifters squat the way westsiders do though.

Note that I did not say POWERLIFTERS...I said those who squat with a wide stance. Not all powerlifters squat with a wide stance...

B True

 

[b fold the truth]

B-- problem w/Chucks is that the toe-box is very wide & peeps w/narrow feet cant fit in them. I cant squat in them at all

I have very narrow feet and I should have gotten a 14 in my Chucks instead of a 15.

I'm not sure where the toes are really involved or where they affect your squat. It did take me a while to get mine broken in...heck I've had them 2 years now.

B True

 

[mekannik]

What about turning your toes out?

I understand that keeping your feet parallel aids in tension of the leg structure as you go down, but I regularly "wide stance" squat in my Olympic Shoes (the very same model you're wearing in those pics, btw) with no roll.

My reasons for using the Olympic Shoes are for the heel wedge (which has all but eliminated my knee pain) and familiarity when snatching/clean & jerking.

 

[Dial_tone]

I squat shoulder-width so I'll stick with my Adidas, although I like your model better than mine. I also have terrible ankle flexibility (large ankles run in the family) so I need the heel lift.

 

[b fold the truth]

What about turning your toes out?

I understand that keeping your feet parallel aids in tension of the leg structure as you go down, but I regularly "wide stance" squat in my Olympic Shoes (the very same model you're wearing in those pics, btw) with no roll.

My reasons for using the Olympic Shoes are for the heel wedge (which has all but eliminated my knee pain) and familiarity when snatching/clean & jerking.

With a wide stance, it is important to spread the floor. Even with my toes out..it still does this but at a slightly different part of the foot. If one does not try and make the shoes roll and spread the floor, they can not activate the hips. Note that the hips and the glutes are different muscles.

How wide do you consider to be wide?

I do wear my Adidas Olympic Shoes when doing OL lifts as well.

B True

 

[mekannik]

By wide, I mean a couple inches outside my shoulders. No where near what you are advocating (from what I can infer from your prior photos in this thread). Just wider than my shoulder width clean stance and slightly narrower snatch stance.

 

[collegiateLifter]

With a wide stance, it is important to spread the floor. Even with my toes out..it still does this but at a slightly different part of the foot. If one does not try and make the shoes roll and spread the floor, they can not activate the hips. Note that the hips and the glutes are different muscles.

How wide do you consider to be wide?

I do wear my Adidas Olympic Shoes when doing OL lifts as well.

B True

What do you mean by activate the "hips." I think you are reffering to either hip flexors or hamstrings. I am not really sure what all the adieu about hip flexors is, but could understand how valuable increased hamstring recruitment could be.

 

[b fold the truth]

By wide, I mean a couple inches outside my shoulders. No where near what you are advocating (from what I can infer from your prior photos in this thread). Just wider than my shoulder width clean stance and slightly narrower snatch stance.

That isn't wide...

My stance is narrow for a WSB Squatter who is 6'2" tall. My feet are the same distance as the width of the collars on a standard olympic barbell...and that is NOT wide for a wide-stance squatter.

2-3' apart...is not wide.

B True

 

[b fold the truth]

What do you mean by activate the "hips." I think you are reffering to either hip flexors or hamstrings. I am not really sure what all the adieu about hip flexors is, but could understand how valuable increased hamstring recruitment could be.

The hips are the muscles which cover up the hip ball and socket joint. There should be muscles there to activate. I spend extra time every week, sometimes twice a week, to work specifically those muscles. Those are extra muscles which can aide in squatting with a wide stance.

B True

 

[coolcolj]

That's the gluteus minor

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/GluteusMedius.html

 

[b fold the truth]

That's the gluteus minor

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/GluteusMedius.html

Something in that area...

I swear that there is a section of muscle which covers my hip bones/joints as well and the muscle which runs up to my waist line.

I'd take a basically nude hip shot to show everyone...but I don't think it would be appreciated much...LOL.

B True

 

[JJFigure]

"I'd take a basically nude hip shot to show everyone...but I don't think it would be appreciated much...LOL."

I wanna see it!!

 

[mekannik]

That isn't wide...

My stance is narrow for a WSB Squatter who is 6'2" tall. My feet are the same distance as the width of the collars on a standard olympic barbell...and that is NOT wide for a wide-stance squatter.

2-3' apart...is not wide.

B True

I understand. I'm also 6'2" - but that's all the wider I feel comfortable squatting for specificity to my lifts. Perhaps I might try wider in some phase in the future, but for now I feel my goals are supported by version of "wide".

 

[Lord_Suston]

interesting post Clint, I think for a wide squatter trying to involver the periformis and glute min and medius and major spread the floor would require chucks or something equivalent. But for a narrow squatter oly shoes are useful cause they help me sit back more without disturbing my balance. I squat narrow because my quads and hams are much stronger than my ass... Nice argument

 

[rbrown]

I squat narrow because my quads and hams are much stronger than my ass... Nice argument

start squatting wide and that will change.

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

"I'd take a basically nude hip shot to show everyone...but I don't think it would be appreciated much...LOL."

I wanna see it!!

another vote for B's nude hip shot

 

[b fold the truth]

I understand. I'm also 6'2" - but that's all the wider I feel comfortable squatting for specificity to my lifts. Perhaps I might try wider in some phase in the future, but for now I feel my goals are supported by version of "wide".

I understand. I'm also 6'2" - but that's all the wider I feel comfortable squatting for specificity to my lifts. Perhaps I might try wider in some phase in the future, but for now I feel my goals are supported by version of "wide".

I agree with what you are saying. Heck...I wouldn't own a $150 pair of Olympic Lifting shoes if I didn' think that they had GREAT value...

I squat wide because I box squat. The wide stance box squat builds both my wide stance squat, deadlift, good morning, and everything which involves the erectors. Hard to beat for my goals.

B True

 

[collegiateLifter]

Something in that area...

I swear that there is a section of muscle which covers my hip bones/joints as well and the muscle which runs up to my waist line.

I'd take a basically nude hip shot to show everyone...but I don't think it would be appreciated much...LOL.

B True

so you are definately not talking about your hip flexors then. I hear the WSB guys talking about the 'hips' a bit and I'm never sure why.

You are talking about some muscle that extends the hips....

 

[b fold the truth]

"I'd take a basically nude hip shot to show everyone...but I don't think it would be appreciated much...LOL."

I wanna see it!!

another vote for B's nude hip shot

I'll see what I can do in the next few days.

B True

 

[anabolicmd]

Bfold, thanks for coming through as always, it makes sense. Obviously, the energy you lose by pushing out is made up for with the activation of stronger muscle groups, or it wouldnt work for you. Damnit B, youve opened up my eyes to another dimension in training, thats another thing I have to try now damnit, Im over here trying to keep it simple, lol

 

[bignate73]

so you are definately not talking about your hip flexors then. I hear the WSB guys talking about the 'hips' a bit and I'm never sure why.

You are talking about some muscle that extends the hips....

glutes and hams.

with box squats, we actually release the hip flexors at the pause at the bottom to help explosiveness coming off the box.

 

[coolcolj]

Westside "hip flexor" are not the real hip flexors, which pull the knee forward ala leg raises.

That's why it always confuses me when they say relax the "hip flexor"? WTF

 

[bignate73]

Westside "hip flexor" are not the real hip flexors, which pull the knee forward ala leg raises.

That's why it always confuses me when they say relax the "hip flexor"? WTF

what are you talking about? those are the ones you relax on a box squat. the "leg raise" muscles. you can conciously feel the crease of your hips relax.

 

[coolcolj]

I'll say it again - WTF

 

[b fold the truth]

Bfold, thanks for coming through as always, it makes sense. Obviously, the energy you lose by pushing out is made up for with the activation of stronger muscle groups, or it wouldnt work for you. Damnit B, youve opened up my eyes to another dimension in training, thats another thing I have to try now damnit, Im over here trying to keep it simple, lol

Every time one has to explain something...they learn a lot themselves.

I'm not a great squatter by any means...and a HORRIBLE Olympic Lifter. We all have many things to learn...especially myself.

B True

 

[b fold the truth]

Westside "hip flexor" are not the real hip flexors, which pull the knee forward ala leg raises.

That's why it always confuses me when they say relax the "hip flexor"? WTF

I dunno...I've never really felt a squat in my hip flexors to be honest. I have been getting horribly sore all through my groin muscles since I've had to tone down my squats for a few weeks (none at all) and back to hitting them hard again.

I'll try to take a pic of this strange little muscle that I use when I box squat. Below my oblique...and my waist bone.

B True

 

[collegiateLifter]

hmm so "the hips" are either the adductor/abductor pair, or some kind of muscle that extends the hips.... the plot thickens.

 

[coolcolj]

That hip muscle is the gluteus minor.

 

[bignate73]

there is a section of muscle which covers my hip bones/joints as well and the muscle which runs up to my waist line.

glute medius
glute minor

bingo! lateral stabilizers.