Cholesterol on VAR/Test = NOT GOOD!

[thx9000]

I get my blood tested for various things before/during/after each cycle. My cholesterol values always get a bit out of wack, but this is horrendous....

This is the first time I have been on var, and I am guessing it is the culprit. The only time I have seen worse test results (from my body) was when I did 1-AD (HDL dropped to 13 then)....

Here are the numbers for those that are interested:

Valu......NOW...PRECYCLE
Chol:.....182.....207
LDL:......136.....123
HDL:......26.......65
CH/HD...7........3.2
LD/HD....5.24....1.89
Trig........99.......95

***Edited had HDL's and ratios reversed***

Everything else looks pretty good (all CBC values, GGT, AST, ALT, etc).

Cycle is 37.5mg var/dy, 400mg cyp/wk with aromasin. Last cycle consisted of way too much test/EQ along with arimidex and HDL still only fell to 48.

I eat pretty well: very little sugar, about 4lbs of fish (tilapia) each week, very little red meat....

Shit, I am afraid to walk across the room now...

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Well, I don't even wince at my cholesterol being over 300 all the time.

Of course, I have done my own research, so I know that most of the cholesterol hysteria is just that--hysteria.

You want to watch your ratios after cycle, of course. You need enough HDL or things can get bad, but it takes quite a while.

Calm down. Take some ginger, naicin, and gugglesterones if your really convinced that you are in danger...which is highly unlikely.

 

[bigrand]

Those arent that bad.....

 

[40butpumpin]

I get my blood tested for various things before/during/after each cycle. My cholesterol values always get a bit out of wack, but this is horrendous....

This is the first time I have been on var, and I am guessing it is the culprit. The only time I have seen worse test results (from my body) was when I did 1-AD (HDL dropped to 13 then)....

Here are the numbers for those that are interested:

Valu......NOW...PRE
Chol:....182....207
LDL:.....136....123
HDL:.....65......26
CH/HD..3.2.....7
LD/HD...1.89...5.24
Trig.......95......99

Everything else looks pretty good (all CBC values, GGT, AST, ALT, etc).

Cycle is 37.5mg var/dy, 400mg cyp/wk with aromasin. Last cycle consisted of way too much test/EQ along with arimidex and HDL still only fell to 48.

I eat pretty well: very little sugar, about 4lbs of fish (tilapia) each week, very little red meat....

Shit, I am afraid to walk across the room now...

tilapia's some good fish bro, love it! don't fear that man, get a c-reactive protein test (state of inflammation) if you really want to know how at risk you are for a heart attack. also get yourself on nattokinase, it can really help you man.

 

[Rio 2001]

LDL 136 and HDL 65 is not bad.
The previous HDL of 26 was ugly, but the LDL was low too, so, if reverse cholesterol transport( cleaning) from HDL was low, so was cholesterol deposition ( dumping) from LDL.

 

[thx9000]

LDL 136 and HDL 65 is not bad.
The previous HDL of 26 was ugly, but the LDL was low too, so, if reverse cholesterol transport( cleaning) from HDL was low, so was cholesterol deposition ( dumping) from LDL.

Unfortunately, I had my values reversed. I was 123 and 65 6wk ago and am now 136 and 26. So I am ugly now....

I am thinking maybe I don't need 25mg aromasin with 400-500mg test/wk, so I will drop that down a bit.

Thanks for the replys everyone...

 

[JibbyJabba]

It wasn't only the Var and Test... the aromasin is a large part of the problem as well.

 

[the urge]

Exactly! People don't seem to know ,or care -one,that aromatase inhibitors are terrible for your hdl/ldl ratio's!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

guggulsterones

what the description does not mention is that guggulsterones have been clinically shown to decrease LDL and slight increase in HDL.

it is also great for acne. though why exactly is not well understood

 

[thx9000]

Exactly! People don't seem to know ,or care -one,that aromatase inhibitors are terrible for your hdl/ldl ratio's!

Well....

I understood perfectly well. BUT, I did arimidex/test/eq and LDL was 133, HDL was 48. Then I heard how aromasin has much less impact on HDL/LDL ratio compared to arimidex. So I figured I would be okay with 25mg along with my test/OX. I do have a tendency to put on lots of water and estrogenic fat really fast and have had problems with "sensitivity" on just 300mg test/wk. If I can avoid that I will, I figured aromasin was the ticket. I was wrong as the impact to my ratio was much worse. Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of dosing recommendations for aromasain, but as I state above I am going to step the dosage down and use nolva to deal with any problems that come up...

 

[Juice Authority]

guggulsterones

what the description does not mention is that guggulsterones have been clinically shown to decrease LDL and slight increase in HDL.

it is also great for acne. though why exactly is not well understood

Marco,

I respect your knowledge but I have to disagree with you here. This is a topic I've been researching as our company is in the process of financing a Canadian based company by the name of Xenon Genetics. There is no supplement or drug on the market today that raises HDL levels. This company is the only company that has a drug in clinical trials that has shown to significantly raise low HDL levels and a result has raised a significant amount of venture capital.

http://www.xenongenetics.com/

Low HDL-Cholesterol

http://www.xenongenetics.com/scripts/index_.asp?action=31&P_ID=53&N_ID=1&PT_ID=1&U_ID=0

Introduction
Approximately half of all patients with coronary artery disease have low levels of HDL-cholesterol ("good cholesterol"). Low HDL is a common form of lipid abnormality, which significantly increases the risk of coronary disease and for which currently no effective treatment is available. In addition, elevated LDL-cholesterol ("bad cholesterol") and elevated triglycerides can further, and independently, contribute to coronary artery disease.

A study by Xenon focusing on patients with the low HDL-cholesterol disorder, Tangier disease, led to the discovery of adenosine triphosphate-binding cassette transporter A1 (ABCA1) in 1999, a gene that regulates the concentration of HDL-cholesterol. Tangier disease was the first genetic HDL deficiency to be identified and was initially described in two siblings from Tangier Island. The disease has been established as being due to a defect involving intracellular trafficking of cholesterol (cholesterol efflux), resulting in an accumulation of cholesterol in the cell and hence, low levels of HDL. Xenon scientists identified the ABCA1 gene as being key to this process of cholesterol efflux. As demonstrated in the graphic below, the ABCA1 gene mediates the transport of cholesterol from the peripheral tissue back to the liver via reverse cholesterol transport, thus ridding the body of excess cholesterol and increasing HDL levels.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Well....

I understood perfectly well. BUT, I did arimidex/test/eq and LDL was 133, HDL was 48. Then I heard how aromasin has much less impact on HDL/LDL ratio compared to arimidex. So I figured I would be okay with 25mg along with my test/OX. I do have a tendency to put on lots of water and estrogenic fat really fast and have had problems with "sensitivity" on just 300mg test/wk. If I can avoid that I will, I figured aromasin was the ticket. I was wrong as the impact to my ratio was much worse. Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of dosing recommendations for aromasain, but as I state above I am going to step the dosage down and use nolva to deal with any problems that come up...

it is likely the combination of a typically stronger aromatase inhibitor (aromasin) and a non aromatizing steroid OX.

btw- EQ is converted to Estrone, not estradiol and appears to convert through a secondary pathway (so a second reason why cholesterol was not so bad even with aromatase inhibition)

 

[macrophage69alpha]

JA,

J Biol Chem. 2003 Mar 21;278(12):10214-20. Epub 2003 Jan 13.

Guggulsterone is a farnesoid X receptor antagonist in coactivator association assays but acts to enhance transcription of bile salt export pump.

Cui J, Huang L, Zhao A, Lew JL, Yu J, Sahoo S, Meinke PT, Royo I, Pelaez F, Wright SD.

Department of Atherosclerosis and Endocrinology, Merck Research Laboratories, Rahway, New Jersey 07065, USA. [email protected]

Guggulipid is an extract of the guggul tree Commiphora mukul and has been widely used to treat hyperlipidemia in humans. The plant sterol guggulsterone (GS) is the active agent in this extract. Recent studies have shown that GS can act as an antagonist ligand for farnesoid X receptor (FXR) and decrease expression of bile acid-activated genes. Here we show that GS, although an FXR antagonist in coactivator association assays, enhances FXR agonist-induced transcription of bile salt export pump (BSEP), a major hepatic bile acid transporter. In HepG2 cells, in the presence of an FXR agonist such as chenodeoxycholate or GW4064, GS enhanced endogenous BSEP expression with a maximum induction of 400-500% that induced by an FXR agonist alone. This enhancement was also readily observed in FXR-dependent BSEP promoter activation using a luciferase reporter construct. In addition, GS alone slightly increased BSEP promoter activation in the absence of an FXR agonist. Consistent with the results in HepG2, guggulipid treatment in Fisher rats increased BSEP mRNA. Interestingly, in these animals expression of the orphan nuclear receptor SHP (small heterodimer partner), a known FXR target, was also significantly increased, whereas expression of other FXR targets including cholesterol 7alpha-hydroxylase (Cyp 7a1), sterol 12alpha-hydroxylase (Cyp 8b1), and the intestinal bile acid-binding protein (I-BABP), remained unchanged. Thus, we propose that GS is a selective bile acid receptor modulator that regulates expression of a subset of FXR targets. Guggulipid treatment in rats lowered serum triglyceride and raised serum high density lipoprotein levels. Taken together, these data suggest that guggulsterone defines a novel class of FXR ligands characterized by antagonist activities in coactivator association assays but with the ability to enhance the action of agonists on BSEP expression in vivo.

this,GW4064, may be the designation for the xenon drug..

 

[Juice Authority]

With all due respect that test was performed on rats. The lipid profile of a rat is considerably different than a human being. Trust me, this company has raised over $100MM in venture capital to see this particular drug through clinical trials. If there was a drug on the market today that raised HDL levels they wouldn't have raised a dime.

 

[thx9000]

JA,

J Biol Chem. 2003 Mar 21;278(12):10214-20. Epub 2003 Jan 13.

Thanks Macro...

I saw this earlier tonight, when I did a search on google after reading one of Fonz's posts. What dosage do you recommend?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

there are lots of drugs that get huge venture capital to do what nature already can.. because you cant patent nature... you cant really prescribe nature (without endangering the pharma and medical industry)... and basically its a profit, not a "we care" issue.

not surprisingly new drugs are developed when the old ones work fine (because the patent runs out)... its a money issue

 

[macrophage69alpha]

btw- note that the raise in HDL was slight... the main impact is lowering of LDL

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Thanks Macro...

I saw this earlier tonight, when I did a search on google after reading one of Fonz's posts. What dosage do you recommend?

have not worked out a specific cholesterol lowering dosage (which of course will vary)

though fonz seems to think the 60-80mg a day is sufficient (which it probably is)

 

[Fonz]

have not worked out a specific cholesterol lowering dosage (which of course will vary)

though fonz seems to think the 60-80mg a day is sufficient (which it probably is)

???

I recommend 120-180mg total Guggulsterones/day from THE 10% EXTRACT.

Not the 55/45% synthetic Guggul the AF store has.

Which btw, does NOTHING for acne.

It is good as an anti-cholesterol agent and weight-loss aid. Thats it.

Fonz

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Which btw, does NOTHING for acne.

It is good as an anti-cholesterol agent and weight-loss aid. Thats it.

Fonz

well... not willing to agree or disagree on that point.. however there are stong links between certain types of acne and cholesterol.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

btw- it is from that figure, yours, the lower amount of Z and E was derived.. if you think more or less though your input is definitely appreciated.

 

[Fonz]

btw- it is from that figure, yours, the lower amount of Z and E was derived.. if you think more or less though your input is definitely appreciated.

10% extract normally delivers .5-2% E-Z Guggulsterones and OTHER types of guggulsterones(Obviously not E and Z).

E-Z = anti-cholesterol and weight-loss
The rest = anti-acneic, and anti-inflammatory.

Fonz

 

[geoboy]

It wasn't only the Var and Test... the aromasin is a large part of the problem as well.

Aromasin is suppossed to be an anti-e that doesn't mess with lipid profile according to one of the docs here.

arimidex bad. aromasin good. feel free to jump in.

 

[geoboy]

There is no supplement or drug on the market today that raises HDL levels. This company is the only company that has a drug in clinical trials that has shown to significantly raise low HDL levels and a result has raised a significant amount of venture capital.

http://www.xenongenetics.com/
.

inositol hexanicotinate (non-flush niacin) raises HDL. this is common mainstream knowledge.


suppossedly Policosanol also raises HDL ( non-f-niacin better).