CCJ, in your opinion...

[spatts]

Which Oly lifts have given YOU the most carry over to a full ROM bench, squat, and dead?

I am looking to try a little experiment of using strictly oly moves on speed days after my workset...just to see what happens.

I would like your "damn-near-professional" opinion on which moves I might get the most carry over out of.

Thanks

 

[endpoint]

sorry im not ccj......

bench: Jerk (many people who dont bench.....often bench the same amount they can C&J.....mostly to do with over head pressing)

squat/deads: heavy pulls (posterior chain)

The main cross over seems to be with the acctual assistance exercises. An overhead press or push press with help a bench press more that a jerk etc etc

 

[spatts]

Now see, Bfold and I both found that neither of us got any carryover out of overhead pressing moves...to our bench.

Heavy pulls, I'm assuming you mean heavy deads. I'm looking more for assistance work...deads would be a regular part of the routine as is.

For example, when I get done with my two main moves on DE bench day, I like to do hang snatches for my rear dlets, or sometimes seated cleans.

Does your overhead press give you alot of bench carryover? I've never noticed that anything outside the bench plane helps me, but maybe I'm weird.

 

[JOKER47]

I'm not CCJ either..... So, if I may be so bold as to offer my experiences:

The only Oly move's I use are High-Pulls and Power Cleans.

Both have helped with my speed off the floor for deadlifts.

I also use the Power Cleans to increase my Clean and Press. (My shoulder strength has always been my weakness with the Clean and Press, so I work overhead press and Power Cleans seperately.)


FWIW,
Joker

 

[coolcolj]

Well just about any olylift from the floor will help the squat some - due to the leg action and explosion. Though I think the power snatch helps the most due to the greater lean over and speed.
I read about some coach saying that he sometimes has his athletes, stop squatting for 6-12weeks and just do power snatches, and when they come back to the squat, it has gone up a good amount.
Straight arm low pulls would help a bunch - I did these with a 3x3 after my squats a few weeks back for a month and that was when I jumped my squat from 315 to 345. But it wasn't the only thing I did, but I think it helped

any sort of olylift and straight arm pulls will help the deadlift. But you dead sumo style which maybe won't help as much.

benchpress, well only thing would be power jerks - jerk with a 2 legged dip catch.
jerk heaves - propel the bar up with leg/shoulders/arms and then let it land back on your chest, bend legs to absorb the shock - not as bad as it sounds if the weight is heavy enough so that the bar doesn't go too high. Some carry over to the squat I'd imagine due to plyo leg action, if done for the leg power, then just use the legs to thrust the weight up.
But really a push press would be better due to more upperbody use.
Your better off with explosive pushups that propel your body off the floor in sets of 3. I'm trying these right now, complexed with lighter speed/power type bench sets. 2 mins rest between each.

 

[endpoint]

Heavy pulls, I'm assuming you mean heavy deads. I'm looking more for assistance work...deads would be a regular part of the routine as is.

nope. Like clean pulls, and snatch pulls......not really heavy (90-100%).

I feel they will help with the ability to become "powerfull" in regards to speed strength. giving you a powerful posterior chain, which we all know will help a 100% effort

over head work benifits me quite a lot. I know its not quite "specific" to bench pressing. but the stength in my shoulders helps my bench...also the extra tricep work in the pressing motion.

I bench raw though.

i would recomend power/cleans alternated with snatchs.....added in like you would add speed deadlifts. hang snatchs and push presses on bench day. that would be my opinion

 

[spatts]

Ok, endpoint, I see what you're saying.

Yeah, I depend on speed for my deadlift...that's why I grip and rip it.

CCJ, to go along with what you were saying about taking time off and coming back stronger...think about ALL WSB powerlifters. We never do a full squat, bench, dead outside of a comp, yet at every comp (hopefully) the numbers go up. Same idea.

My regular speed work set on DE squat day is a progression from 185-205 + green bands or pink bands, for 2 x 8. Then, I would like to add something like a power snatch as my 2nd compound move for the day...then accesorry work (which I also do for speed on speed day).

Endpoint, I bench raw in training and just rely on my shirt to assist with whatever I can do raw. As my raw goes up, my shirted goes up too. I REALLY need more shoulder strength. I spent the last year rehabbing them, and it's time to stop babying them and get them strong. I know how to do most of these moves, but I will need to practice some before I can add any significant weight.

Thanks alot, guys.

 

[endpoint]

Endpoint, I bench raw in training and just rely on my shirt to assist with whatever I can do raw. As my raw goes up, my shirted goes up too. I REALLY need more shoulder strength. I spent the last year rehabbing them, and it's time to stop babying them and get them strong. I know how to do most of these moves, but I will need to practice some before I can add any significant weight.

I just remembered that you had shoulder troubles.

as louie once said (not a direct quote) that a shirt gives you %10 at the bottom of the lift...so it stands to reason that your triceps have to be 10%stronger than your pecs and delts etc.

as a raw bencher* i feel i need to focus on my delts quite a lot...and it will have cross over to my other strength "goals"

also i would like nice strong healthy shoulders....so i do focus on them a lot


*i am not against shirts...dont own one yet, and wont bench in one till i need it (soon)...and can put the money aside for one.

 

[edgecrusher]

My regular speed work set on DE squat day is a progression from 185-205 + green bands or pink bands, for 2 x 8. Then, I would like to add something like a power snatch as my 2nd compound move for the day...then accesorry work (which I also do for speed on speed day).

[/B][/QUOTE]

Spatts, if you are going to use an olympic movement, as your second move of the day, keep it to something that is a bit less technical. Like a high pull, or something of that nature. Attempting a snatch like movement when you are already fatigued can be both dangerous as well as counter productive.

 

[spatts]

I just remembered that you had shoulder troubles.

as louie once said (not a direct quote) that a shirt gives you %10 at the bottom of the lift...so it stands to reason that your triceps have to be 10%stronger than your pecs and delts etc.

Hm...10%?

My floor press is 200lbs, my lockout is 403lbs. You can see why I like my shirt.

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

I never trained WSB, but I am familiar with it for the most part.....Have you ever tried jump squats as your DE squat exercise? I always thought they might be helpful in a WSB routine......Also, snatch-grip deadlifts hit things not normally hit doing them with a normal, closer grip......You could also try behind-the-neck push jerks to assist your explosion off the chest in flat benching......Personally, I don't notice direct carry-over from overhead to bench while incorporating both of them, but if I do something like Incline Presses on Mon, and Overhead or Push Presses on Thurs for 2 months, when I concentrate again on flat benching, I always PR within 3 weeks, and keep dong so fo weeks and weeks..... I also sometimes stand in a power rack and overhead press and set the pins so that the bar taps the safties at the top of each rep, then on my last rep I drive the bar into the pins for maybe 5 seconds.....But what has worked for me is to scrap benching for a while and concentrate on shoulders, I always feel great when I get back on a bench, I bench raw, and knock on wood, everytime I center a program around overheads and can finish my cycle with around 315 for a single on a strict OHP, then do a training cycle geared towards benching, my max at the end of the cycle is always at least in the 435 range. So, from my own experience, I can't say enough about shoulder strength assisting the bench press, just when cycled, not doing say BP on mon and OP on thurs.

 

[louden_swain]

CCJ,

Do you ever perform explosive high pulls?

 

[coolcolj]

I sometimes do them from the hang, but not from the floor anymore, they build bad habits for the oly lifts. They tend to make you pull with your arms, bend your arms too early.
It is much harder to do a high pull correctly than a normal oly lift - people tend to muscle up the weight

So now I do stiff arm pulls, I use more weight and explode onto my toes with a shrug, the bar mometuem after the shrug does bend the arms a bit, but the arms don't do any pulling though.
The weight is somewhere in between a deadlift and powerclean.

Spatts - try Windmills, they have done wonders to my shoulder/cuff strength and stability

 

[bignate73]

all you need is.....

3-4 Sets, 10 Reps each
Delt Yanks

3-4 Sets, 10 Reps each
Rotating Trap Bombs

2 Sets Max 12-15 Reps
Clean Compression Rips

1-2 Power Sets 10 Reps each
Back End Tugs

 

[edgecrusher]

all you need is.....

3-4 Sets, 10 Reps each
Delt Yanks

3-4 Sets, 10 Reps each
Rotating Trap Bombs

2 Sets Max 12-15 Reps
Clean Compression Rips

1-2 Power Sets 10 Reps each
Back End Tugs

Don't forget the tuberosity shredders 3-4 sets of 500 should do the trick.

 

[spatts]

 

[Zander1983]

Thumbs up for explosive pushups to help your bench:

http://www.t-mag.com/articles/192push.html

 

[slinky]

I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in here.

I just think that most of the O-lifts will assist in your deads, mostly. Not unless your issue is with the lockout in the squat; then they'd help there, too.

Push presses may help your bench. While there is definite lower body action, they do hammer the triceps with a heavier load than a typical millitary press.

Hope this helps.