Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below 
Sassy69
New member
I grabbed this off a different board, from someone who grabbed it from Mayhem:
This is from Mayhem. Another person posted this, I copied and saved becuase it made sense to me. Sorry its so long.
THE CARB LOAD
Thought I would add another topic to this discussion. Feel free to chime in or disagree. I am basing this off of what many people have always followed as the base carb depleting and loading method. Something that I unfortunately followed when I competed because as with most, it was what was shown to me by someone who competed. Let me premise this with first enlightening people where the whole ideology came of needing to carb deplete for 3 days then load for the same amount of time. During the cold war Russian Sports Scientists came up with this method based on studies with their athletes. However more recent study has shown that although this method worked to an extent it is less efficient then the current "speed loading" most athletes use,, except bodybuilders that is because many are stuck in the old ways as well as are following what they were told by a guy who was told by a guy and so on. So without further adue, here goes.
Myth-Carb depleting for 3 days then loading will help the body to super compensate and store glycogen more efficiently.
Truth- In all actuality it is not depleting carbs that causes the body to super compensate but rather the sudden increase of carbs that is the cause of extra glycogen storage. Lets say your at 200 grams of carbs per day and over the next 16 hrs you increase your carb intake to 600grams. The body doesn't immediately store these extra carbs as fat but rather shoves them into the muscle. Yes, if you were to keep at an increased rate of carb intake the body would eventually start to store it as body fat, however the body works in a more reactive way, or homeostasis as many are familiar with. Therefore the body stores carbs where there is room, the muscle which can be thought of as an elastic container that expands as things are put into it. Basically that the reason so many people go flat, end up smooth, or can't get rid of water is because they have carbed up to much using a very outdated methodology.
Myth-It takes 3 days to carb the body up.
Truth- The body can be fully carbed within 16-24 hrs. The whole idea that it takes 3 days to carb the body is again based on old theory. Plus if you think about all the insulin mimickers as well as actual insulin being used the carb up process can be attained much faster. Now before anyone freaks out and says "hey I found a flaw in his theory and this guy is insane because anyone who knows anything knows using insulin will cause water retention" STOP.. I have a whole lot more to cover not only in this but in other topics. Anyway the point is, once again I believe people come into a show soft, flat, and water logged because they are over carbed.
As many know the muscle volume you see on stage is due to Glycogen storage and carbs pull water into the muscle. So explain this to me. Why do most people gradually DEPLETE water while at the same time try to FILL the muscle full of carbs? Does this make any sense to anyone? Its like trying to Push and Pull at the same time.
Here is the most common scenario that is played out. People deplete carbs starting a week out then as they get close to the show they begin dropping water, usually at 3 gallon Wed, 2 gallon Thur, and 1 gallon to sipping Friday then hit their diuretic. They usually look somewhat full but are fighting to keep it by Saturday morning along with their vascularity which has nothing to do with carbs but is rather a sodium issue which Ill get into another time. How many times have you heard someone say they looked good but they just didn’t have that fullness and vascularity they had 2 weeks out. But rather than changing things up they keep going with the same method with the odds against them hoping that it will just time right. Now before I get reamed let me say that yes I have seen the standard method of water and carbing work, HOWEVER I guarantee you that more times than not it will not work and will NEVER work as good as following the body’s natural guidelines. So what other option is there??? Well lets look at what we want. We want the Sub Q water to be as limited as possible, we want muscles to be full of glycogen and some water, and we want crazy vascularity. This is where it takes that whole idea of breaking away from the norm and going against what we have always heard. So a brief overview of what I have people do consists of first depleting the body of carbs pretty much the standard way and increasing protein throughout the week to increase diuresis. And instead of starting water depletion on wed I have them take in full water all the way through Friday to get the body in a “flushing” state. Sometimes I have them use a diuretic however I have found that it is not always needed. So Friday night comes, the person is fully depleted of carbs and water so what now. EAT, EAT, EAT. I am sure many of you have heard of the whole “Shit Loading” phase that has caught on and I do believe it is a MUCH better and more physiologically based method of carbing up than any other. It’s the whole idea that once the body is depleted of carbs and water then you have LESS chance of overspill, and can use insulin much more efficiently to carb up because there is not water to cause sub Q retention. The other factor is that when one takes in carbs they first go to the most needed area, MUSCLE. Now as stated carbs pull water SOOO what do you think happens to any Sub Q water that is left in the body?? That water is going to be pulled into the muscle. Granted I haven’t really layed down exactly how to go about all this but merely given some principles for what I believe is the better method of carbing up. Once again I won’t claim to know everything but I will try to back up what I say with common sense and using the body’s natural system of balance. There are a few other areas that Id like to get discussion going on such as sodium, diuretics, potassium, ect.. but will see if anyone is interested in. Hope this makes sense and feel free to add to it, question it, and debate it.
Glad to see a good knowledge base from people already. If anyone is interested in more detailed discussion PM me. Its not that I don't like discussing this but I do have methods that I keep to myself for prepping people. To answer some General questions.
ptest:just to be clear, what time do they stop drinking water on Friday????
I base things on individuality. It also depends on the size of the person as well. I am not against diuretic use and having a nursing background I understand them well, however I am more about supplementing with them rather than relying on them. I have a guy who is doing a show this Saturday and we cut his water thursday at 11pm by this morning he had already dropped twolbs lighter than he normally is. Also water is not a BAD thing,, it is what fills the muscle out and to an extent I rely on the carb loading to DRY a person out. As the muscle fills with glycogen it will pull stored sub Q water into the muscle and often times the person wakes up in the morning dryer than the night before. As far as how I fill people out tha fast Ill keep that to myself lol.
misha:?, what would you eat the morn of the show???
That also varies, on the competitor, male or female, size, and what they look like in the morning. Typically in the morning we continue what we did the night before loading but also replenishing lost minerals, commonly from diuretic use. One common missunderstanding is that competitors think that to get their vascularity up before going on stage they should get in some quick carbs. Well unfortunately its not a carb issue that causes flat veins,, especially if one has taken a diuretic. But to answer your question a bit more I will typically have them eating a normal breakfast, then JUNK FOOD, again not gonna go into to much detail. But lets just say that the rest of the competitors hate when I have guys back stage eatig pizza,, for some reason it just bugs them my people aren't waiting till after the night show
LifterGirl:I double my water intake Sunday to Wednesday and carb load wednesday and Thursday
This is part of the problem with standard carb up. As I stated it is a myth that it takes that many days to carb a person up. I am carbing up guys overnight who are above the 200lbs mark. When you carb up that long it gives the body time to normalize. Lets say your normally eating 100 grams of carbs a day and one day you decide to up it to 200 grams or more. Does the body store this.. NO it shoves the glucose into the muscle but if you continue to do this over a period of a few days the body will normalize and eventually start storing that glucose in the subQ tissue or fat and water follows. The normal carb up process does work don't get me wrong, I and a few other guys have debated this quite extensively on another board,, however the method by which I am talking about is much more reliable and controlled. This is why I will guarentee that anyone who uses the normal method will have story after story of hit and miss,, sometimes more of one then the other.
LifterGirl:I can see the sodium load shrinkwraping you by pulling the water in
Actually the sodium loading doesn't have to do with pulling water in, it has to do with causing the body to release water so that when you stop drinking the body continues to expell it and that is where the skin starts to thin out. Sodium is the major EXTRACELLULAR Cation and is responsible for water in the Extracellular and Vascular compartments IE- VEINS hint hint.
No problem. Also to add one other thing in reguards to the normal carb up. This is the biggest thing I don't like about it. You spend 2-3 days carbing up while although you may be decreasing water its still moderate. So you fill the muscle up with glycogen which means water is being pulled in only to dehydrate the day before the show and in essence deflating the muscle. I will guarentee that no matter how good you look using this process that doing a faster load AFTER your water is off will cause a much fuller look.
This is from Mayhem. Another person posted this, I copied and saved becuase it made sense to me. Sorry its so long.
THE CARB LOAD
Thought I would add another topic to this discussion. Feel free to chime in or disagree. I am basing this off of what many people have always followed as the base carb depleting and loading method. Something that I unfortunately followed when I competed because as with most, it was what was shown to me by someone who competed. Let me premise this with first enlightening people where the whole ideology came of needing to carb deplete for 3 days then load for the same amount of time. During the cold war Russian Sports Scientists came up with this method based on studies with their athletes. However more recent study has shown that although this method worked to an extent it is less efficient then the current "speed loading" most athletes use,, except bodybuilders that is because many are stuck in the old ways as well as are following what they were told by a guy who was told by a guy and so on. So without further adue, here goes.
Myth-Carb depleting for 3 days then loading will help the body to super compensate and store glycogen more efficiently.
Truth- In all actuality it is not depleting carbs that causes the body to super compensate but rather the sudden increase of carbs that is the cause of extra glycogen storage. Lets say your at 200 grams of carbs per day and over the next 16 hrs you increase your carb intake to 600grams. The body doesn't immediately store these extra carbs as fat but rather shoves them into the muscle. Yes, if you were to keep at an increased rate of carb intake the body would eventually start to store it as body fat, however the body works in a more reactive way, or homeostasis as many are familiar with. Therefore the body stores carbs where there is room, the muscle which can be thought of as an elastic container that expands as things are put into it. Basically that the reason so many people go flat, end up smooth, or can't get rid of water is because they have carbed up to much using a very outdated methodology.
Myth-It takes 3 days to carb the body up.
Truth- The body can be fully carbed within 16-24 hrs. The whole idea that it takes 3 days to carb the body is again based on old theory. Plus if you think about all the insulin mimickers as well as actual insulin being used the carb up process can be attained much faster. Now before anyone freaks out and says "hey I found a flaw in his theory and this guy is insane because anyone who knows anything knows using insulin will cause water retention" STOP.. I have a whole lot more to cover not only in this but in other topics. Anyway the point is, once again I believe people come into a show soft, flat, and water logged because they are over carbed.
As many know the muscle volume you see on stage is due to Glycogen storage and carbs pull water into the muscle. So explain this to me. Why do most people gradually DEPLETE water while at the same time try to FILL the muscle full of carbs? Does this make any sense to anyone? Its like trying to Push and Pull at the same time.
Here is the most common scenario that is played out. People deplete carbs starting a week out then as they get close to the show they begin dropping water, usually at 3 gallon Wed, 2 gallon Thur, and 1 gallon to sipping Friday then hit their diuretic. They usually look somewhat full but are fighting to keep it by Saturday morning along with their vascularity which has nothing to do with carbs but is rather a sodium issue which Ill get into another time. How many times have you heard someone say they looked good but they just didn’t have that fullness and vascularity they had 2 weeks out. But rather than changing things up they keep going with the same method with the odds against them hoping that it will just time right. Now before I get reamed let me say that yes I have seen the standard method of water and carbing work, HOWEVER I guarantee you that more times than not it will not work and will NEVER work as good as following the body’s natural guidelines. So what other option is there??? Well lets look at what we want. We want the Sub Q water to be as limited as possible, we want muscles to be full of glycogen and some water, and we want crazy vascularity. This is where it takes that whole idea of breaking away from the norm and going against what we have always heard. So a brief overview of what I have people do consists of first depleting the body of carbs pretty much the standard way and increasing protein throughout the week to increase diuresis. And instead of starting water depletion on wed I have them take in full water all the way through Friday to get the body in a “flushing” state. Sometimes I have them use a diuretic however I have found that it is not always needed. So Friday night comes, the person is fully depleted of carbs and water so what now. EAT, EAT, EAT. I am sure many of you have heard of the whole “Shit Loading” phase that has caught on and I do believe it is a MUCH better and more physiologically based method of carbing up than any other. It’s the whole idea that once the body is depleted of carbs and water then you have LESS chance of overspill, and can use insulin much more efficiently to carb up because there is not water to cause sub Q retention. The other factor is that when one takes in carbs they first go to the most needed area, MUSCLE. Now as stated carbs pull water SOOO what do you think happens to any Sub Q water that is left in the body?? That water is going to be pulled into the muscle. Granted I haven’t really layed down exactly how to go about all this but merely given some principles for what I believe is the better method of carbing up. Once again I won’t claim to know everything but I will try to back up what I say with common sense and using the body’s natural system of balance. There are a few other areas that Id like to get discussion going on such as sodium, diuretics, potassium, ect.. but will see if anyone is interested in. Hope this makes sense and feel free to add to it, question it, and debate it.
Glad to see a good knowledge base from people already. If anyone is interested in more detailed discussion PM me. Its not that I don't like discussing this but I do have methods that I keep to myself for prepping people. To answer some General questions.
ptest:just to be clear, what time do they stop drinking water on Friday????
I base things on individuality. It also depends on the size of the person as well. I am not against diuretic use and having a nursing background I understand them well, however I am more about supplementing with them rather than relying on them. I have a guy who is doing a show this Saturday and we cut his water thursday at 11pm by this morning he had already dropped twolbs lighter than he normally is. Also water is not a BAD thing,, it is what fills the muscle out and to an extent I rely on the carb loading to DRY a person out. As the muscle fills with glycogen it will pull stored sub Q water into the muscle and often times the person wakes up in the morning dryer than the night before. As far as how I fill people out tha fast Ill keep that to myself lol.
misha:?, what would you eat the morn of the show???
That also varies, on the competitor, male or female, size, and what they look like in the morning. Typically in the morning we continue what we did the night before loading but also replenishing lost minerals, commonly from diuretic use. One common missunderstanding is that competitors think that to get their vascularity up before going on stage they should get in some quick carbs. Well unfortunately its not a carb issue that causes flat veins,, especially if one has taken a diuretic. But to answer your question a bit more I will typically have them eating a normal breakfast, then JUNK FOOD, again not gonna go into to much detail. But lets just say that the rest of the competitors hate when I have guys back stage eatig pizza,, for some reason it just bugs them my people aren't waiting till after the night show
LifterGirl:I double my water intake Sunday to Wednesday and carb load wednesday and Thursday
This is part of the problem with standard carb up. As I stated it is a myth that it takes that many days to carb a person up. I am carbing up guys overnight who are above the 200lbs mark. When you carb up that long it gives the body time to normalize. Lets say your normally eating 100 grams of carbs a day and one day you decide to up it to 200 grams or more. Does the body store this.. NO it shoves the glucose into the muscle but if you continue to do this over a period of a few days the body will normalize and eventually start storing that glucose in the subQ tissue or fat and water follows. The normal carb up process does work don't get me wrong, I and a few other guys have debated this quite extensively on another board,, however the method by which I am talking about is much more reliable and controlled. This is why I will guarentee that anyone who uses the normal method will have story after story of hit and miss,, sometimes more of one then the other.
LifterGirl:I can see the sodium load shrinkwraping you by pulling the water in
Actually the sodium loading doesn't have to do with pulling water in, it has to do with causing the body to release water so that when you stop drinking the body continues to expell it and that is where the skin starts to thin out. Sodium is the major EXTRACELLULAR Cation and is responsible for water in the Extracellular and Vascular compartments IE- VEINS hint hint.
No problem. Also to add one other thing in reguards to the normal carb up. This is the biggest thing I don't like about it. You spend 2-3 days carbing up while although you may be decreasing water its still moderate. So you fill the muscle up with glycogen which means water is being pulled in only to dehydrate the day before the show and in essence deflating the muscle. I will guarentee that no matter how good you look using this process that doing a faster load AFTER your water is off will cause a much fuller look.
