Caminiti: 'I won MVP on steroids'

[pushing_fe]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news/ap/20020528/ap-si-steroids.html

"I've made a ton of mistakes,'' said Caminiti, a recovering alcoholic and former drug user whose 15-year career ended last season. "I don't think using steroids is one of them."


Canseco has got everyone running scared. Who's next?

 

[rudedawg]

Interesting. I have never been a Cami fan but I wonder if his steroid use had anything to do with his landing on the DL every other week the last 3 years of his career.

Any correlation how some of the biggest guys and the ones that are most talked about for their steroid use (Big Mac, Canseco, Cami) spent more time on the DL than most.

 

[rudedawg]

Interesting article on the question I asked in the above post: Is steroid use leading to more DL time:

"Noted sports orthopedist James Andrews, of Birmingham, says he "seldom used to see these muscle-tendon injuries" in baseball. "It was always the sport for the agile athlete with the small frame," he says. "Over the last 10 years, that's changed. You'd have to attribute that -- the bulking up and the increased injuries -- to steroids and supplements."



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/special_report/news/2002/05/28/verducci/

 

[J-DAM]

And probably cause being a crackhead and an alcoholic are a little more troublesome than taking a roadie to a TJ pharmacia to score some roids.

 

[madbomber31]

just like jose- ken caminiti comes out with this

http://msn.espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0528/1387969.html

trying to trump him i guess, either that or his name is in the book.

 

[WODIN]

Baseball will do with steriods what the NBA did with Herb...ban it but not test for it. If you get suspended from an NBA team for weed you are truley a moron. LOL!!

 

[The Shadow]

Caminiti was no surprise.

Canseco
Mark Mag
Bagwell
Bonds
Dykstra
Ronnie Gant

 

[The Shadow]

Sammy sosa
Jason Giambi

 

[madbomber31]

i'm guessing some of the of's are winnied up too... the lofton style players.

 

[madbomber31]

hehe, he said dykstra... NAILS BABY!!!! NAILS!!!

his boy kruk definitely was on a bulking cycle (life long fatty)

 

[bigschweeler]

Does his admitted steroid use diminish his accomplishments as a player? If McGuire, or Bonds used steriods while setting the home run record does it diminish the record?

Shouldn't Selig come out with a statement at this point that MLB does not condone the use of steroids?

MLB is flawed, and for steroids to be tested for the player's association will have to agree. This will be another difficult subject for baseball to overcome along with the labor difficulties.

 

[pushing_fe]

Yes, Yes

and

Yes

This just opens the door for little leaguers to start popping dbol in-between innings.

 

[bigschweeler]

This just opens the door for little leaguers to start popping dbol in-between innings.

Haha, but that's just sad. Baseball players get their jack based on individual production and if they can increase their home runs and RBIs by increasing strength through steroids then yes this will trickle down and it probably is already.

 

[rudedawg]

Haha, but that's just sad. Baseball players get their jack based on individual production and if they can increase their home runs and RBIs by increasing strength through steroids then yes this will trickle down and it probably is already.

Remember when McGwire came out and said he was taking Andro? That shit was flying off the shelves from teen-agers buying it.

Does it diminish his accomplishments? No I don't think so. He still has to have the ability to hit a 95 mph fastball or a 85 mph slider. I am by no means a steroid guru but I don't think there is a steroid that gives you athletic ability.

Of course Selig should come out and tell the public that MLB does not condone the use of Roids......but really what will that do?

""We need to test," commissioner Bud Selig told SI. "I believe it's in the best interest of the players long term. I feel very strongly about that."

Hopefully kids will read the article where he states that
"While his performance improved, Caminiti encountered new health problems, primarily because he initially used steroids nonstop instead of in recommended cycles. As a result, his testosterone level dropped 80 percent below normal. Still, he continued to use steroids for the rest of his career, albeit in proper doses. But he never again approached his '96 performance, in part because he spent portions of each of his final five seasons on the disabled list.
"I got really strong, really quick. I pulled a lot of muscles. I broke down a lot," he said. "I'm still paying for it. My tendons and ligaments got all torn up. My muscles got too strong for my tendons and ligaments. And now my body's not producing testosterone. You know what that's like? You get lethargic. You get depressed. It's terrible."

 

[rudedawg]

Check out some readers reactions:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/special_report/news/2002/05/28/steroids_react_I/
2 of my favs:

I could take steroids all day and still not hit a major league fastball. Steroids don't put anything in the player that's not already there. What's needed is counseling for the player that addresses why he/she doesn't feel that his/her natural and already proven abilities aren't enough.
Elliott Delman, Evanston, Ill.

How come nobody has informed the Royals about all of this?
Mike, Kansas City, Mo.

 

[runner]

Does it diminish his accomplishments? No I don't think so. He still has to have the ability to hit a 95 mph fastball or a 85 mph slider. I am by no means a steroid guru but I don't think there is a steroid that gives you athletic ability.
[/B]

i disagree...i think it DOES diminish their accomplishments. sure, you need the ability to hit the slider, but the 'roids are helping to produce a barrage of opposite field homers and even the occasional broken bat homer.

baseball has become something similar to the local beer softball league. a buncha' big guys swingin' for the fences. sure, the mcgwire/sosa thing helped to ignite interest in the short term, but...

i'm a baseball purist...personally, i want to see a traditional lineup with a coupla' on base guys followed by a coupla' sluggers, etc. i want to see some stolen bases, some doubles and triples, some great athletic defensive plays. strikeouts and home runs are not exactly a thrill a minute if you ask me.

 

[CytoMel]

Lotsa baseball players take em'

 

[rudedawg]

i disagree...i think it DOES diminish their accomplishments. sure, you need the ability to hit the slider, but the 'roids are helping to produce a barrage of opposite field homers and even the occasional broken bat homer.

baseball has become something similar to the local beer softball league. a buncha' big guys swingin' for the fences. sure, the mcgwire/sosa thing helped to ignite interest in the short term, but...

i'm a baseball purist...personally, i want to see a traditional lineup with a coupla' on base guys followed by a coupla' sluggers, etc. i want to see some stolen bases, some doubles and triples, some great athletic defensive plays. strikeouts and home runs are not exactly a thrill a minute if you ask me.

Do you know that the shortest home run that McGwire hit was the one that broke the record? I don't know all the distances of his bombs but I doubt there were too many that were just over the fence. He hit one OUT of BankOne Ballpark. How many feet does Roids add to a batted ball? 10 ft, 25 ft, 50 ft????????

 

[rudedawg]

i disagree...i think it DOES diminish their accomplishments. sure, you need the ability to hit the slider, but the 'roids are helping to produce a barrage of opposite field homers and even the occasional broken bat homer.

baseball has become something similar to the local beer softball league. a buncha' big guys swingin' for the fences. sure, the mcgwire/sosa thing helped to ignite interest in the short term, but...

i'm a baseball purist...personally, i want to see a traditional lineup with a coupla' on base guys followed by a coupla' sluggers, etc. i want to see some stolen bases, some doubles and triples, some great athletic defensive plays. strikeouts and home runs are not exactly a thrill a minute if you ask me.

Do you know that the shortest home run that McGwire hit was the one that broke the record? I don't know all the distances of his bombs but I doubt there were too many that were just over the fence. He hit one OUT of BankOne Ballpark. How many feet does Roids add to a batted ball? 10 ft, 25 ft, 50 ft????????

And a big reason there are opposite field bombs being hit is because pitchers won't/can't pitch inside so they try to nibble on the outside corner.

 

[runner]

Do you know that the shortest home run that McGwire hit was the one that broke the record? I don't know all the distances of his bombs but I doubt there were too many that were just over the fence. He hit one OUT of BankOne Ballpark. How many feet does Roids add to a batted ball? 10 ft, 25 ft, 50 ft????????

remember the old term "warning track power"? you don't hear that one much any more.

i am an absolute baseball statistics freak. i spent my childhood memorizing batting averages, home run statistics, etc. to see some juiced-up marginal talent compiling numbers that match some of the all-time greats just irks me to no end.

 

[rudedawg]

remember the old term "warning track power"? you don't hear that one much any more.

i am an absolute baseball statistics freak. i spent my childhood memorizing batting averages, home run statistics, etc. to see some juiced-up marginal talent compiling numbers that match some of the all-time greats just irks me to no end.

Marginal talent????????

 

[runner]

And a big reason there are opposite field bombs being hit is because pitchers won't/can't pitch inside so they try to nibble on the outside corner.

totally agree with this point (i know, it's off topic). the days of drysdale and gibson and the brushback pitch are long gone. now we have people like biggio with his body armor, umpires who issue warnings at the drop of a hat, pitchers who in one league don't have to bat and face a retaliatory knockdown...

don't get me started...

 

[runner]

Marginal talent????????

that wasn't directed at anyone in particular. look at the number of players who hit 40 homers in a season nowadays.

ted williams hit more than forty homers ONCE in his career. to compare some of these palookas to him is laughable.

people like sean green, todd helton and jim thome all hit 49 last year. williams' high was 43. RICHIE SEXSON hit 45 last year...

 

[Bill W]

Its even more frightening to consider that roughly 45% of all MLB players are pitchers, for whom gear would only have marginal advantages. I would suspect that even the Rey Ordonez' of this world are "on." I mean, he came back to spring training this year significantly bigger. I would suspect that virtually all of position players are "on."

I am a huge baseball fan and played some D1 college ball, but not that well. I would say thatpower hitters need 3 things:

1) Great hand/eye coordination

2) Bat speed

3) Knowledge of the count/strike zone/pitcher

A player's ability to hit HRs depends on his relative abilities at these things. For the most part, all major league hitters have superior hand/eye coordination. The guys that exhibit the best, can adjust mid pitch with 2 strikes and take pitches the other way.

Knowledge of the count/situation/strikezone or whatever else you want to call it comes with experience, which is why typically, guys take a while to exhibit consistent power. These guys understand the pitchers and what to look for when the counts in their favor an dwon't swing at a pitch unless its what they are looking for (typically a fastball) and in the location they are looking for. For Bond's, fastball, middle-in.

Steroids have nothing to do with either of these things. Where they come in is with bat speed, atributable to strength. Just because someone is strong doesn't mean they have bat speed and vice versa, but there certainly appears to be a correlation.

I look at myself as a purist too, and I do look at today's accomplishments for fantasy league purposes and just because some guy is .260-32-95, it doesn't mean they're an all-star or even close. I mean, Jeromy Burntitz isn't that good.

 

[Gorlim]

Steroids are a defininite advantage, Imagine how many homeruns babe ruth coulda hit ect. if he had been juicing the way these guys are today...

 

[cure]

Can you please tell me the last time you saw a broken bat home run?

 

[HappyScrappy]

Can you please tell me the last time you saw a broken bat home run?

1989
but I hardly ever watch baseball anymore.

 

[rudedawg]

Its even more frightening to consider that roughly 45% of all MLB players are pitchers, for whom gear would only have marginal advantages. I would suspect that even the Rey Ordonez' of this world are "on." I mean, he came back to spring training this year significantly bigger. I would suspect that virtually all of position players are "on."

I am a huge baseball fan and played some D1 college ball, but not that well. I would say thatpower hitters need 3 things:

1) Great hand/eye coordination

2) Bat speed

3) Knowledge of the count/strike zone/pitcher

A player's ability to hit HRs depends on his relative abilities at these things. For the most part, all major league hitters have superior hand/eye coordination. The guys that exhibit the best, can adjust mid pitch with 2 strikes and take pitches the other way.

Knowledge of the count/situation/strikezone or whatever else you want to call it comes with experience, which is why typically, guys take a while to exhibit consistent power. These guys understand the pitchers and what to look for when the counts in their favor an dwon't swing at a pitch unless its what they are looking for (typically a fastball) and in the location they are looking for. For Bond's, fastball, middle-in.

Steroids have nothing to do with either of these things. Where they come in is with bat speed, atributable to strength. Just because someone is strong doesn't mean they have bat speed and vice versa, but there certainly appears to be a correlation.

I look at myself as a purist too, and I do look at today's accomplishments for fantasy league purposes and just because some guy is .260-32-95, it doesn't mean they're an all-star or even close. I mean, Jeromy Burntitz isn't that good.

This is an outstanding post. Altho I would definately not agree with your assumption that all position players are "on". These guys have the top nutritionists, trainers, etc.... that money can buy leading them. Charles Poliquin trains quite a few professional athletes. Also there is a thing called maturity....not emotional state but physical maturity. How many of you know someone that was a skinny ass ( I was) in High School or College and now they have some size to them. I was only 185 lbs up until I turned 25.

Not sure about bat speed and strength.....look at Griffey, he has one of the quickest bats in the league and I don't think he is ripped.

Believe it or not Jerry Dipoto (reliever for Colorado that retired) gained 25 lbs of LBM between the beginning of his sophomore season and the beginning of his junior season on DON'T LAUGH .........Cybergenics. He followed it to a T.

These guys have nothing to do for 4 months but get bigger and better if they want to. And it is not like they are fat slobs (for the most part) the other 8 months of the year.

 

[runner]

so....what's your point, rudedawg? that steroid use is not widespread in the bigs or that it won't help players that much?

what year did you retire? canseco says 85 percent are on, caminiti guesses 50%, others say 20 or less. i think i read recently that close to 5% of american males have juiced, so it's natural to assume the figure is much higher for those who make their livings w/their bodies. what would you guestimate the percentage was when you were playing?

 

[rudedawg]

so....what's your point, rudedawg? that steroid use is not widespread in the bigs or that it won't help players that much?

what year did you retire? canseco says 85 percent are on, caminiti guesses 50%, others say 20 or less. i think i read recently that close to 5% of american males have juiced, so it's natural to assume the figure is much higher for those who make their livings w/their bodies. what would you guestimate the percentage was when you were playing?

My last year was '95. I have no idea of how many guys were juicing....... I don't remember anyone mentioning anybody other than Canseco & McGwire. Not to say there weren't but there wasn't one time I remember anyone on the teams I played on that ever talked about doing it.

I do not think it is as widespread as most think. 45% of all MLB players are pitchers! So if 85% of ALL MLB players are on juice then a majority of pitchers would have to be "on".

I think it could help a player (short term). Baseball is way too much about ligaments and tendons and flexibility. It might help a guy hit a few more HR's/yr......how many I don't know. Too many variables like mechanics, speed of pitch, wind, bat speed, type of pitch, location of pitch, day time, night time, early or late game, when in the season...............etc......... etc..........

I like Brian Anderson's quote that was in todays paper:
"I'm sure 50 yrs. ago guys in the NBA said there will never be a guy jump from the free throw line and dunk, and they can do it now. Athletes get better and better in every sport and are capable of greater athletic feats. Baseball is the only sport that gets no credit for that."