bulk up then lean up or lean up then bulk up???

[blackshirt21]

just wondering what's the better route! I'm about 207lbs. right now and want to get to about 225. Would it be better to get to
that weight then lean up, or lean up start cycle and bulk up?

Thanks for any info!!!

 

[plug1]

If your really overweight to startwith then lean up first, otherwise bulk up... I think.

 

[Bigtug]

either way... if your crankn hard your gonna get there anyway =D

i usually bulk than cut up... i like to get the abusive liver GEAR out of the way =)

 

[blackshirt21]

i'm not overweight, i'm about 6'2 and 206. i'm just thinking should
i lean up a little before starting next cycle, or keep the weight i
have and just bulk on weight fromcycle then try cutting it up???


thanks

 

[Bigtug]

i would bulk than cut =) but really up to how you feel dont think there is a major diffrence either way...

 

[Beezers]

Always bulk first...provided you're not a lard ass. At 6'2 206 you could use some mass. To be honest(respectfully) you're a bit on the lanky side. Always remember....Without the muscle mass there's noting to cut up to be seen. You have to have the muscle before you can show it off. At your hight you may need more than 225 pounds on your frame.

 

[supertech69]

At your height/weight, you should go bulk then bulk again, then keep bulking. Trust me, it's very hard for us tall guys to gain. It sounds like your bf% is low enough already so, if you eat clean and train hard you will effectively gain & appear to get more cut with the mass. I am on a year long bulking program & am not even gona waste my time cutting untill I get to the weight that i want to be at. Why put yourself through it if you're not getting ready for a competition. Once you hit that 225 mark you're going to want more so you might as well just keep bulking. I'm 6'5" 245 and have 6-7 months of bulking that I'll be doing before I consider cutting. It's nice to be ripped but, when you look at the big picture, it's even sweeter to be large & ripped!

 

[Beezers]

Mr. supertech is correct. When you get done bulking just keep right on bulking. I'm 6'1 which though not tall is a skyscraper in bodybuiding terms. I though that 225 would do it for me. I got to 225 and still looked small. SO I figured 240 would do the trick...Nope...still a bit lanky...Then 250. Getting there. I was a bit thicker, but still not an overpoering physique. Now at 260 I'm starting to see it, but there's a loooong way to go. The taller you are the harder it is to see your mass.

I feel bad for YUM

 

[doggystyle]

I'm 5'10" 220 and I feel tiny.I want to get to 240 but really its an individual thing.I cant imagine that you need to cut at this point.Hit a good buffet and eat.haha I like sushi myself.

 

[CUBANITO]

As of right now, im 5'11 at 175 pds. My goal is to get to 200 pds and then cut up. Hopefully ill reach my goal by next year. Do you guys think 200 pds is reasonable weight for my height? In a month ill be doing a fina/dbol/test cycle hopefully ill be a least 190pds.

 

[supertech69]

As of right now, im 5'11 at 175 pds. My goal is to get to 200 pds and then cut up. Hopefully ill reach my goal by next year. Do you guys think 200 pds is reasonable weight for my height? In a month ill be doing a fina/dbol/test cycle hopefully ill be a least 190pds.

it depends on wht your goals are. Do you just want to get a little bigger (that's how we all start out LOL), doing it to pick up women or do you plan to compete? If competition, then I'd say you need to keep gaining a bit above that.

 

[gUiLe]

Last week of dieting for me!! 6"5 and currently 256lbs. I will
keep this last week VERY strict, and then....operation Bulkup will
commence. I would like to get to about 285 then I cut it from
there. We'll see. Dude, I have three things to say to you...
EAT..EAT...EAT!! Eat to grow!! Lean down later.
g

 

[serge]

arnold at his best was 235lb at 6'2, can anyone seriously call him lanky?

 

[Beezers]

arnold at his best was 235lb at 6'2, can anyone seriously call him lanky?

That was at a competition ready 4% and dry. When someone bulks up to 235 they will have to diet off a good deal of weight to dial it in. For most that would then leave them aroun 200 so it's really not that big for someone whom is 6'2. Genneraly for someone 6'2 a ripped 240 is an "offseason or bulked" 280, so there is a huge difference between a bulked 235 and a ripped 235.

 

[littleswoll]

I'm a strong believer in building a firm base then build from there.

SWOLL

 

[serge]

That was at a competition ready 4% and dry. When someone bulks up to 235 they will have to diet off a good deal of weight to dial it in. For most that would then leave them aroun 200 so it's really not that big for someone whom is 6'2. Genneraly for someone 6'2 a ripped 240 is an "offseason or bulked" 280, so there is a huge difference between a bulked 235 and a ripped 235.

i dont know about you but i never go over 20lb off my peak, and that ussually takes eating ice cream burgers and pizza, total of about 7000cals per day, if i take in clean 5000cals per day i dont go over 10lb off my peak

but in arnolds case, the heaviest he has ever been is 260lb (according to his unathorised biography, and his website). when he preped for his Olympia in 1980, he got ready for it in 3months, now you cant possibly tell me he went up from 210lb to 280lb and droped down to 235lb in 3months.

but all of that does not mean anything, since we dont know how good of a shape they that posted the question is, he might be 206lb 20%bf, or 5%.

 

[Beezers]

Yes, but have you ever been in competion shape? There is a difference between cut and stage ready. And for someone with superior genetics as was arnolds case 260 down to 240 is beleivable...Though he probably was heavier. For most in the last week alone 10 pounds is lost from water. If you diet off 20 pounds and then the final three days before the show shed every millilitier of sub-Q water you will have totaled 30 pounds of weight lost.

 

[serge]

Yes, but have you ever been in competion shape? There is a difference between cut and stage ready. And for someone with superior genetics as was arnolds case 260 down to 240 is beleivable...Though he probably was heavier. For most in the last week alone 10 pounds is lost from water. If you diet off 20 pounds and then the final three days before the show shed every millilitier of sub-Q water you will have totaled 30 pounds of weight lost.

i agree about the pre-comp weight loss, but back in the day they did not use t-3 or dnp, so once you factor in the time spent going up from 210lb, then droping back down to 235-240lb, it seem kinda extreme for a 3moths span.

just out of curieosity, what bulking approach to you take, how many cals per lb of body weight do you consume, what nutrient ratios do you use? 40lb difference seems kinda extreme

 

[tury]

I am now a firm believer that you have to bulk up first and then lean up, because you don't realize how much weight you have to loose to get that ripped look, you loose alot of weight, and some of that is muscle. Before you realize it you have dropped the fat but also a bit of muscle and you look alot smaller than you had planned.

 

[Beezers]

i agree about the pre-comp weight loss, but back in the day they did not use t-3 or dnp, so once you factor in the time spent going up from 210lb, then droping back down to 235-240lb, it seem kinda extreme for a 3moths span.

just out of curieosity, what bulking approach to you take, how many cals per lb of body weight do you consume, what nutrient ratios do you use? 40lb difference seems kinda extreme

I don't know that I neccessarily beleive he went from 210->260->240 in 12 weeks. This "may" be exagerated to dramaticize his "comeback" and further his legend...Nothing against arnold, but all people do this.

My bulking strategy is that of discipline and dedication. I eat clean all the time and don't cheat. I'm 6'1 260 at 9%bf and for me to get into show shape it would be a 30-40 pound ordeal...even from 9%. The first and last day of the diet alone I would loose 10 pounds. This is my current bulking diet.

meal 1
3 scoops Isopure MRP


meal 2

16 egg whites

1.5 cups of oats



meal 3

10oz. chicken

8oz. sweet potato



meal 4(post training)

3 scoops whey

1 soar(110g maltodextrin)



meal 5(30 minutes later)

3 scoops Isopure MRP

55g maltodextrin


meal 6

10oz. chicken

8oz. sweet potato



meal 7

12oz. tuna

2 cups of brown rice

1 tbsn flax oil

1 cup bell peppers



meal 8

7oz. salmon

6 Broccoli spears



meal 9

12oz. tuna

2 cups of brown rice

1 tbsn flax oil

1 cup bell peppers



meal 10

1.5 pounds of cottage cheese



cals: 5935

pro: 593

carb: 680

fat: 80

Now to get this back to the original post. You have to amount the mass before you can show anything off and for taller guys they simply need a lot more weight to look substantial. That's why goals need to be set higher than thier ideal ripped weight because once all is said and done with after a diet you will always be smaller than you thought. That's why I preach to aim big to be big.

 

[olympia4ever]

arnold at 4% competition? dont think so mate...maybe 7% but not 4%...flex wheeler hit the deck around 3-4%, arnold was not anywhere near that. He was a great bodybuilder but around 235 at 6-7% for comp...probably went up to 245 and stayed like that around 8-9% year round...dont forget in those days they used to stay around 8-9% al year and just cut to 7% for competition. 4% ... with those folds around his waist and lower back...dont think so mate.

 

[serge]

I don't know that I neccessarily beleive he went from 210->260->240 in 12 weeks. This "may" be exagerated to dramaticize his "comeback" and further his legend...Nothing against arnold, but all people do this.

My bulking strategy is that of discipline and dedication. I eat clean all the time and don't cheat. I'm 6'1 260 at 9%bf and for me to get into show shape it would be a 30-40 pound ordeal...even from 9%. The first and last day of the diet alone I would loose 10 pounds. This is my current bulking diet.

meal 1
3 scoops Isopure MRP


meal 2

16 egg whites

1.5 cups of oats



meal 3

10oz. chicken

8oz. sweet potato



meal 4(post training)

3 scoops whey

1 soar(110g maltodextrin)



meal 5(30 minutes later)

3 scoops Isopure MRP

55g maltodextrin


meal 6

10oz. chicken

8oz. sweet potato



meal 7

12oz. tuna

2 cups of brown rice

1 tbsn flax oil

1 cup bell peppers



meal 8

7oz. salmon

6 Broccoli spears



meal 9

12oz. tuna

2 cups of brown rice

1 tbsn flax oil

1 cup bell peppers



meal 10

1.5 pounds of cottage cheese



cals: 5935

pro: 593

carb: 680

fat: 80

Now to get this back to the original post. You have to amount the mass before you can show anything off and for taller guys they simply need a lot more weight to look substantial. That's why goals need to be set higher than thier ideal ripped weight because once all is said and done with after a diet you will always be smaller than you thought. That's why I preach to aim big to be big.

i agree with your last statement to a point, i beleave alot has to do with structure, if you are big-boned then you will have to get up much higher in bodyweight, where as if you have small joints and small waist then you will look much more impressive 20lb lighter then your big-boned counterpart

 

[blackshirt21]

thanks for the reponses fellas!!!! think I'll try to gain as much
weight before June and then start cycle then worry about
cutting it up!!!!

 

[c3bodybuilding]

Not trying to start a debate, but I've read in Pumping Iron (the book), his autiobiography, a few biographys, and his encyclopedia that he was at his HEAVIEST off season at 245. But I've seen pics of him at this 'off season' weight, and he still has the abs, triceps, etc showing pretty clearly. So, it's not that hard to believe he was on stage at 230-235 and being really ripped. As for 4%, YIKES! He claimes 7-8 in all books, and talks he gives about it. You must also take into consideration his legs. His thighs at peak were 28inches. My own thighs at 6'3 are 27 1/2 inches right now, and to me are not huge by any means. And seeing as how legs are most the body weight, you can see where he was lighter. I would think if he trained them a little more, he could have easily been 15-20lbs heavier over all. Who knows...

As for all the bro's worrying about "will I look good at this weight?" "is this weight good for my height?!", don't worry about it! Bodybuilding is supposed to be a pleasureble thing. With all the worrys in life, we don't need this to turn into another one. I can tell you that size doesn't really matter personally. I felt small when I was 144.5lbs, at 175, 182, 191, 210, 220, and now at my current weight of 239 I still feel small. I have a feeling I will still feel that way at 250, 260, 270, etc. I have small joints, and naturally low body fat, a nice v taper, so I appear at least 5lbs heavier than I really am, but it all makes no difference. I am even reluctant to wear certain clothes that might show too much, because I feel there isn't anything to show. Then I see a guy my height who is about 175-190, wearing a tank top and enjoying the beautiful hot sunny day. My point? Thats when I realize there is no magic number to make you happy with your size. It's all about being happy with who you are. Sure it would be awesome to look like a Franco, Lou, Haney, Arnie, or even a Priest, Nasser, etc, but if we all keep up this mind set, we still wouldn't be happy once we got there...

 

[c3bodybuilding]

Oops, almost forgot the whole 1980 Olympia thing. Arnold was out of bodybuilding for 5 years. If you watch some cheesy made for tv flicks he did from 75-80, and look at pics, you will see he obviously lost a lot of size, about 190-200. Then the part of Conan came along, and he was now becoming quickly forgotten. Being the slickster he is, he thought it would be better for promotion if he was freshly named Mr. Olympia, and also good motivation to get back in shape for the upcoming shoot of playing a barbarian. Joe Weider, and Franco easily talk him into doing the show. Now if you look at pics of him for that show, and read about it, everyone says it was rigged, and people were booing when he won, and throwing shit at the stage, etc. The reason? He looks to be about 225-230 on that stage. His thighs are clearly smaller, as are all his other body parts. This is not the Arnold from the 74 and 75 Olympia. His thights must be no more than 25-26inchs! Of course he still had the killer biceps, and pecs, but the total package was just not there. And what do you expect after being off for 5 years, and getting ready for a contest in just 3 months? I love Arnold, and have learned all I can about the man, but shit, he shouldn't have won that contest. He should have stayed retired, and not have tarnished the 'myth' of it all, even if only slightly.


Why is everyone here even using him as contest/cutting/bulking example anyway? That man was a freak, and was able to pull off a lot of shit most of us couldn't. Trying to explain how a bodybuilder prepares for a show, cuts, bulks etc, and using Ahhhnuld as an example is just too confusing! LOL

 

[HansNZ]

Mr. supertech is correct. When you get done bulking just keep right on bulking. I'm 6'1 which though not tall is a skyscraper in bodybuiding terms. I though that 225 would do it for me. I got to 225 and still looked small. SO I figured 240 would do the trick...Nope...still a bit lanky...Then 250. Getting there. I was a bit thicker, but still not an overpoering physique. Now at 260 I'm starting to see it, but there's a loooong way to go. The taller you are the harder it is to see your mass.

I feel bad for YUM

It's interesting to read this post. When I first started to bulk, an extra 2kgs of lean mass totally changed my body. Now that I am bigger I need twice the muscle gain to get a similar change in my physique. I thought (100kgs) 220lbs at 6'1" would be big enough. Now that I am getting closer to that goal I don't look as big as I thought I would. So I am going for 105kgs (232lbs) and seeing how that looks. Once I reach it I bet i'll want to go up to 110kgs, and so on.