Box squating

[power up]

I have been powerlifting for about 12 years. I have never used box squats for fear of spine injury. I have been reading a lot about them lately and decided to give em a try. My best raw squat is 550 but my most recent pr is 500 back in Jan 05. I dont have a box low enough at my gym so I used a bench it was about 1-2 inches above parallel. I read from Westside that I should go 50-60% of my max for 6 sets of 2. I did this and found 250 to be way to easy so I went to 275 still not feeling it so I went 300. Little more effort for 300 but still not difficult. I was training with 450 last week for 4 sets of 3 with just a belt. I always go a least parallel most times below. When I was box squatting yesterday I stayed tight when I hit the bench and I rocked back so there was no lean forward and I drove the weight up. My question is should box squats really be easy? and should I squat normal anytime soon?

Dale

 

[xblitz44x]

I'm not sure how you train it, but I've always thought to use box squats as a DE exercise. Even though the weight itself will be 'easy', the difficult part is generating explosive bar-speed from the bottom position of the lift. Good luck!

 

[LiftingDukkha]

I never really figured out how box squats are supposed to be used for DE squats, and it seems to me that most of the WSB guys & literature say Box Squats are more for ME days.

The gym I use has aerobic steps, these plastic little 2-3" tall boxes that you put a wide step on top of a pair at each side, to make variable height steps for aerobic step-ups, etc. I take between 4 to 8 of these, and use them for my box squats. I discovered they actually support my weight and a max-effort squat, for a full, paused, sit-back squat, so I have that going for me.

On ME days I do Box Squats, sitting back, fully pausing, then squatting up. With the aerobic steps, I can vary the height each week from about 3"+ below parallel to a couple inches above

On DE days, I don't really "need" box squats, but I use them anyway, but I stay at the same height each week. I just use the height that's just below parallel for me, and do "touch-and-go" (no pause), using between 45% - 60% of my max.

The point of using such light weight for DE squats is to do them as fast as you possibly can. About 8-12 sets of 2-3 reps, but each rep is done as explosively as possible, and you only take about 30 seconds or so rest between each set.

 

[jcp2]

I do box squats for 6 sets of 2 on my only squatting day when i am far out from a meet. They are not easy, they are not that fast, but they are not slow. If you are squatting with bands they are going to be fast to some degree or you are going to be stapled to the box. I will say this, i squat to just below parallel most of the time, but i go to an inch above i can add almost 100 lbs. Getting that little bit lower really kills the amount of weight you can use.

 

[power up]

Should I regular squat sometime soon. This 50-60% stuff seems pretty lite. I only train everything once a week. Thats all I have time for and Im fully recouperated by about the 5th day anyway.

 

[Quadsweeps Sister]

The point of using such light weight for DE squats is to do them as fast as you possibly can. About 8-12 sets of 2-3 reps, but each rep is done as explosively as possible, and you only take about 30 seconds or so rest between each set.

Could not have said this better myself. This is the point exactly of box squat on DE day. Used bands also a time or two on DE day off the box...really gets your heart rate up.

 

[power up]

DE? Dynamic effort= Speed day? ive tried speed days and my numbers dropped so fast. Ive been training 3-8 reps for a long time. I think it was because im only training everthing one time every 7 days

ME ? Max effort day?

 

[Quadsweeps Sister]

DE? Dynamic effort= Speed day? ive tried speed days and my numbers dropped so fast. Ive been training 3-8 reps for a long time. I think it was because im only training everthing one time every 7 days

ME ? Max effort day?

Well since you are posting in the PL'ing forum, we can come at it from that route.

Yes, DE is speed day. ME is max effort day. A PL'er generally trains somewhat like this (maybe squat first in the week, either/or:

ME Bench
ME Squat
DE Bench
DE Squat

Those above being the days when those exercises are done. If this is the case, you would most likely be training your 'lower' (posterior chain) twice in a 7 day period. If you are interested in reading more about ME and DE training - look here:
Methods of Max Effort, Part 1
Making Max Effort Easy
List of Max Effort Squat Exercises
List of Max Effort Bench Exercises

I know you mentioned 8 sets of 3 on (DE Bench?), here is an article about it. Beginner Mistakes, The DE Bench

Here's a nice article about alternatives to speed work:
Bigger, Faster & Stronger

 

[fortunatesun]

The spine injury problem occurs when someone sits down as explosively as they stand up. This method has been out of favor for many years now and it sounds like you have the hang of them already.

 

[LiftingDukkha]

power up, You said you only have one day a week to squat.

If you only squat one day a week, you probably shouldn't do DE/speed/light squats.

WSB calls for doing one day of DE/speed work (light weight), then about 3 days later, doing one day of ME work (max weight).

For squats, you'd do (for example) 50% squats on Tuesday (fast as possible) then, on Friday or Saturday, do over-90% squats for 1-3 reps, 1-2 sets.

If you can't do 2 days a week, I think you should stop doing "only" DE squats. Perhaps you can do one ME set, then a few DE sets after on the same day.

 

[power up]

Is Bigger Faster Stronger considered a good powerlifting plan? I have heard a little about it but never looked into it.
I think with the time I have available I will work with the ME then a few box squats sets on the same day.

 

[joepalooka]

This is the first time posting over here.

If you only have one day a week to train legs you should train with your normal squat routine and then do dynamic squat afterwards. Read Zatsiorsky, Science and Practice of strength training. Not to confuse any one on the dynamic method as written by Lou Simmons. But reading Zatsiorsky you will find after maximal effort movement you should do speed work" aka dynamic squat". I can say for myself after a Maximal effort movement I am pretty spent and really don't feel like moving ballistically with a light weight.

You can use various box heights or even make a box out of wood or something else. Most benches are generally to high to be squatting off, of this depends on how tall you are mind you. But for me a bench is probably 4" above parrellel and of course the weights are easier because of the range of motion. Until you get used to box squatting a high box is fine then work your way down to below parrallel or just above depending on hip flexibility and strength. I used to use an 11 inch high steel step which is 3" below parrallel for me for dynamic squat work.

 

[power up]

Joe where in metro detroit are you. Im in Waterford. your name sounds familar. Have you done any meets for USAPL? I have Zatsiorskys book I finished chap 3 about a month ago. VERY scientific. It was easy for me to put down and not pick back up. I know I should read it, but does it get better. All the formulas just killed it for me.

 

[joepalooka]

Power Up. I am from Livonia MI. I use the same user name on every board I am on. I am a mod on Anabolic Fitness training board.

I have posted in the past on Nazereth, Metal Militia, APF-michigan forums before it changed, Deep squatter, Joe average...... I have looked into i USPL before. I like 2 ply gear. You can check my training log on Anabolic fitness if you like.

The funny thing is I own as much single ply gear as 2 ply gear. I had a training partner that was pushing me to do single ply or no gear competitions. I haven't put much thought into it lately because of job stress.

 

[Illuminati]

I have been powerlifting for about 12 years. I have never used box squats for fear of spine injury. I have been reading a lot about them lately and decided to give em a try. My best raw squat is 550 but my most recent pr is 500 back in Jan 05. I dont have a box low enough at my gym so I used a bench it was about 1-2 inches above parallel. I read from Westside that I should go 50-60% of my max for 6 sets of 2. I did this and found 250 to be way to easy so I went to 275 still not feeling it so I went 300. Little more effort for 300 but still not difficult. I was training with 450 last week for 4 sets of 3 with just a belt. I always go a least parallel most times below. When I was box squatting yesterday I stayed tight when I hit the bench and I rocked back so there was no lean forward and I drove the weight up. My question is should box squats really be easy? and should I squat normal anytime soon?

Dale

if you don't have a box that is low enough, you can stack 45lb plates on the ground to get the right height. you could use those step aerobics things, and get the right height, or a combination of the step aerobics and plates. or you could build your own box out of ply wood. not sure how tall you are, but something in the area of 12-13" would probably do you good.

 

[The_Monster]

Ive found box squats to be an excellent tool for ME day also.
(Im joepalookas training partner... NOT the one who wanted him to compete single ply though, lol)

I think when joe and I were getting close to the 700lb range a box helped develop starting power AND it trained your muscles for depth. By that I mean that by having the box at parallel (or a bit below), you were teaching your muscles (by repetition) where to stop at.

The two box methods that I feel paid off were touch and go (just touch the box and ascend) and actually sitting on it and releasing your hips. When you reengage your hips you have to develop some helluva starting power to get that weight moving again!

On lighter weight I didnt notice box squats on ME day making too much difference, but for triples and singles it was nice.

 

[Illuminati]

Ive found box squats to be an excellent tool for ME day also.
(Im joepalookas training partner... NOT the one who wanted him to compete single ply though, lol)

I think when joe and I were getting close to the 700lb range a box helped develop starting power AND it trained your muscles for depth. By that I mean that by having the box at parallel (or a bit below), you were teaching your muscles (by repetition) where to stop at.

The two box methods that I feel paid off were touch and go (just touch the box and ascend) and actually sitting on it and releasing your hips. When you reengage your hips you have to develop some helluva starting power to get that weight moving again!

On lighter weight I didnt notice box squats on ME day making too much difference, but for triples and singles it was nice.

were you using the bands w/ a lot of tension on your lighter days? i have found that DE box squats, with lots of top band tension have helped me tremendously, especially when I put the suit on

 

[curgeo]

Illum....Monster and Joe are my training partners (When I was on day shift) and very good friends of mine. Their advise is invaluable.

 

[power up]

What gym do all of you train at? Im the only guy at my gym that trains like I do. Its funny that there are 5 of us right here in detroit area on this board but not that many meets. At least not single ply or no gear meets. I only use a squat suit. Im thinking on monday (squat day) Im going to train my 3x3s then do some speed squats off the box.

 

[curgeo]

We train at Gold's in Livonia.

 

[joepalooka]

Illuminati,

We used to in the past use bands with heavy tension. Doubled up average bands and small bands.

Once the bands where taken off I was falling back wards with weight. I know how to correct this for myself but I am working on gaining strength right now.

We stopped dynamic squatting and replaced this with deadlifting instead. Which has helped me greatly with my deadlift. The deadlift I am not naturally gifted for so I feel I need to work this more often for speed and strength.


Power up, we train at Gold's in Livonia. We train generally M,W,F @ 6pm and I also train Sunday.

 

[Illuminati]

Illuminati,

We used to in the past use bands with heavy tension. Doubled up average bands and small bands.

Once the bands where taken off I was falling back wards with weight. I know how to correct this for myself but I am working on gaining strength right now.

We stopped dynamic squatting and replaced this with deadlifting instead. Which has helped me greatly with my deadlift. The deadlift I am not naturally gifted for so I feel I need to work this more often for speed and strength.


Power up, we train at Gold's in Livonia. We train generally M,W,F @ 6pm and I also train Sunday.

you know what's funny. the past couple months I put a focus on my deadlift. my ME days consisted of pulling. my DE days consisted of box squats, and pulling against bands. I just hit an easy 20lb PR on squat last monday, and I have been focusing on my deads. (i also hit a PR on deads 2 weeks ago.) i guess we all get stronger differently

 

[joepalooka]

This is true! Finding what works for one individual is hard enough to figure out over a few years of heavy lifting let alone a whole group with different weakness's. By watching and trying new things is sometimes a very long painful process.

My deadlift helps my squat strength and vice versa. I am fairly explosive for the squat hence why I dropped speed work. When I deadlift I move slower to avoid yanking my shoulders out of the socket. Low box squats helps my deadlift.

Incidently I have incorporated using a trap bar for deadlifting over the last six-seven weeks. I have hit 2 pr's over my conventional dl pulling sumo as far as pr's go this is also 130lb pr over my sumo dl. I contribute this to the trap bar. The leg work I get out of using the trap bar is incredible for hips, glutes, hamstring. I am using a waving pattern or stair wave for my deadlifting and it seems to be working for now. Bad part is my lower back is fried a lot!

And by the way using the trap bar and grip work has also helped me crack the 600lb dl club with 625lbs. I have pulled 600 from the floor about 5 to 6 times to loose my grip at the top or loose the lift at mid shin because my hips were to high at the start of the pull. I will see monday what I can pull conventional.

 

[Illuminati]

This is true! Finding what works for one individual is hard enough to figure out over a few years of heavy lifting let alone a whole group with different weakness's. By watching and trying new things is sometimes a very long painful process.

My deadlift helps my squat strength and vice versa. I am fairly explosive for the squat hence why I dropped speed work. When I deadlift I move slower to avoid yanking my shoulders out of the socket. Low box squats helps my deadlift.

Incidently I have incorporated using a trap bar for deadlifting over the last six-seven weeks. I have hit 2 pr's over my conventional dl pulling sumo as far as pr's go this is also 130lb pr over my sumo dl. I contribute this to the trap bar. The leg work I get out of using the trap bar is incredible for hips, glutes, hamstring. I am using a waving pattern or stair wave for my deadlifting and it seems to be working for now. Bad part is my lower back is fried a lot!

And by the way using the trap bar and grip work has also helped me crack the 600lb dl club with 625lbs. I have pulled 600 from the floor about 5 to 6 times to loose my grip at the top or loose the lift at mid shin because my hips were to high at the start of the pull. I will see monday what I can pull conventional.

Joe...

I find myself in the same position. I am very explosive with both my deadlift and my squat. Even with the 590, once I started to change direction, the weight flew up. One guy at the gym told me that I need to learn to slow down as I get to the top of the lift. (I personally, think that I just need to put more weight on the bar!!!!) I think that maybe I could stand to step away from the WSB protocol for a bit, and work on more ME stuff.

Anyway...you said that you have eliminated a DE day, and gone with a Deadlift day, and a Squat day. Are those both ME days? And what days do you do them on? (Just trying to get a feel for your spacing of days.)

Scott

 

[power up]

Ive been doing more of a Ed Coan style for a long time. Very basic and working my way up to the max. Ive been training sqauts on monday bench on wed and deads on friday with an assistance day and little light bench on sat for quite a while.

 

[joepalooka]

Illuminati,

Monday I deadlift. I use a waving pattern. Each 3 week wave the weight is increased up. I will start a wave as low as 315lbs and will work upto 545lbs. I use about 3 sets centered around a particular weight each set from 6-10 reps depending on weight. Now 1 out of 6 weeks is a max pull with a regular bar. Followed by heavy chest supported row, seated cable row or pull down. That is all I do for Monday.

Now Friday is My Max Effort Squat. I have returned to a 4 week rotation.
1)Max Effort full range squat
2)Max Effort Good Morning
3)Max effort High box squat
4)Max effort Sumo DL.

This is followed by glute ham raises, quad work, trap work and grip work.
My max effort full range squat can be a single, tripple or a repetition type max effort. I do this by feel. I wear belt and knee wraps for prevention. I will start wearing my briefs again for full range.

Wednesday is my bench day. I was doing board press every other week, mixed with reverse band bench and some raw benching. Followed by db's and tricep work.

Sunday is my light bench day/shoulder work

Power up my training partner has been thinking about trying Ed Coan's work out.

 

[joepalooka]

Ok, I conventional deadlifted 600lbs from the floor wearing just a belt.

 

[The_Monster]

He did, and I pulled the same belt only. I really credit the trap bar deadlifting we've been doing for the improvement we've made.
Also, I know the grip work has paid off, as joe usually has a problem with grip at this weight.

I was thinking about Coans training, but I'll save it for when we get stale again. We seem to have hit a stride again and are back on track to getting where we were before the set backs, and there is NO use trying to fix something that ain't broke!

 

[power up]

very true about not messing with a plan thats working. My grip has been my downfall as of late too. I can rep out 5-6 reps for 3 sets with 500 with straps but give that weight with just chalk and I can get 2-3. I pulled 615 back in December with straps. I have been working my grip pretty good lately since I am going to Midland in July for a push pull. First meet in 5 years.

 

[Illuminati]

Ok, I conventional deadlifted 600lbs from the floor wearing just a belt.

nice work brotha. keep pulling. I just hit a PR squat with 650. had some room to spare. woking on getting the video up. i'll post a link when i can