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Blood Doping?
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Donnie Darko
Lurking Around
I don't recommend EPO.
csobel
New member
EPO is a hormone that stimulates the production of red blood cells, as well as speeding up the maturation process of new erythrocytes (RBC's). Normally the body releases it when it senses a need for more oxygen, like going up to a higher altitude for example.
Your blood is normally 40-48% RBC's, and epo can boost that easily into the mid 50's. Essentially your blood becomes thicker and your heart has to work harder to pump it around whether you are exercising or not... which is why you get some guys who just go into cardiac arrest while on the drug.
Unless you are a pretty dope athlete it probably won't make a huge difference... and you can boost your crit to the same level using test and eq if your not getting tested. If you're gonna use it, get blood work done every other week at least.
Your blood is normally 40-48% RBC's, and epo can boost that easily into the mid 50's. Essentially your blood becomes thicker and your heart has to work harder to pump it around whether you are exercising or not... which is why you get some guys who just go into cardiac arrest while on the drug.
Unless you are a pretty dope athlete it probably won't make a huge difference... and you can boost your crit to the same level using test and eq if your not getting tested. If you're gonna use it, get blood work done every other week at least.
csobel said:
mmmm... a 10 day pull on EPO at 4k/ED will only up you by about 3%, but getting your RBC/hematocrit tested BEFORE is a must... it will take about 3 weeks after your 'therapy' for the work to get joyous and it will/can last for months depending on stress factors, insulin response factors due to diet and chronic hydration...
got mine to 54% on test and equipoise (from 46) but i live at 6000 feet.
As ironic as it maybe to ask, eddy merckx are you a pure cyclist? or a BB'er that rides the bike? just be interested to hear what kind of dosing protocol you used? as we want to keep water weight down and dose to avoid pumps...
Ferrari compares EPO to OJ... too much and you have problems but as long as your smart about things it can be rather safe... just make sure your covering your main aspects: centrifuge (Hemoglobin meter as an option or good to pair both), iron (you'll need lots, and you'll need to monitor) it and asprin (just a baby asprin)... just don't go over 50% until you know what you are doing... there is a lot of information out on the subject and you should be able to find dosing protocols (just remember we all react differently and that is why we retest)...
As far as whether EPO is worthwhile, a lot of cyclists I know have changed their threshold power to close to their old VO2 max!!
I'm surprised the BB'er's don't have more to say on EPO... or maybe its just the elite that are using it...
Regardless be smart and safe... please don't flame me for telling things like it is...
Ferrari compares EPO to OJ... too much and you have problems but as long as your smart about things it can be rather safe... just make sure your covering your main aspects: centrifuge (Hemoglobin meter as an option or good to pair both), iron (you'll need lots, and you'll need to monitor) it and asprin (just a baby asprin)... just don't go over 50% until you know what you are doing... there is a lot of information out on the subject and you should be able to find dosing protocols (just remember we all react differently and that is why we retest)...
As far as whether EPO is worthwhile, a lot of cyclists I know have changed their threshold power to close to their old VO2 max!!
I'm surprised the BB'er's don't have more to say on EPO... or maybe its just the elite that are using it...
Regardless be smart and safe... please don't flame me for telling things like it is...
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chris302001
Banned
Yeah dude, you gotta be careful with epo. Too much, and you'll give yourself chemically induced polycythemia rubra vera. Doesn't sound like a whole shitload of fun does it? Well it's not. It's like having leukemia. Your red blood cells will start sticking together, your bone marrow will be churning them out so fast wont even be shaped right, they'll get stuck in your spleen, etc. Like someone else said, your heart's going to be pissed off too when it has to pump 5 liters of sludge through capillaries smaller than insulin pins.... If you do use epo, make sure you monitor your hematocrit and dont let it get above 60%.
I'm not entirely convinced your hematocrit makes that big of a difference.... I run around with a 52 normally and I fucking HATE endurance activities.... But its probably more of a fact that I just hate it....
I'm not entirely convinced your hematocrit makes that big of a difference.... I run around with a 52 normally and I fucking HATE endurance activities.... But its probably more of a fact that I just hate it....
Hey Chris,
From my understanding polycythemia is rare, even in renal failure patients, and well I've talked to lots of EPO users on a cycling specific board who have never experienced this... but you are right to say use caution, and please don't think I'm down playing the fact that messing with your hormones is dangerous. You have to be very careful with running a crit over 55%, so lets just say for beginners don't exceed it!!
Have you always had such a high hematocrit? or is this just steroid induced? I would disagree in the effectiveness of EPO, for someone with a crit of 40 (normal for an endurance athlete (as its always declines with hard training)) to jump to a 50 crit is a large gain... as the endurance world roids are only for recovery which makes EPO the biggest performance enhancing substance (we'll avoid the powerful Pot Belge ideas, as they are potent but deadly)...
While effective I don't recommend EPO until your really at that elite level, and the ones who are there know who they are... EPO won't make a Cat 3 a pro...
From my understanding polycythemia is rare, even in renal failure patients, and well I've talked to lots of EPO users on a cycling specific board who have never experienced this... but you are right to say use caution, and please don't think I'm down playing the fact that messing with your hormones is dangerous. You have to be very careful with running a crit over 55%, so lets just say for beginners don't exceed it!!
Have you always had such a high hematocrit? or is this just steroid induced? I would disagree in the effectiveness of EPO, for someone with a crit of 40 (normal for an endurance athlete (as its always declines with hard training)) to jump to a 50 crit is a large gain... as the endurance world roids are only for recovery which makes EPO the biggest performance enhancing substance (we'll avoid the powerful Pot Belge ideas, as they are potent but deadly)...
While effective I don't recommend EPO until your really at that elite level, and the ones who are there know who they are... EPO won't make a Cat 3 a pro...
nic404 said:
i am more of pure cyclist--ex-locally-competitive runner (meaning win a small race every so often but not if there was a real runner in it) and lift more for self confidence than bb--and played with gear prob more than i should have--and still do.
yes, epo will do wonders, but really only for guys close to their natural limits--but at a price: to get your rbc high enough for it to work you can get some crappy sides....every see the guy at the head of the peloton scratching himself like he has fleas? dead giveaway.
as noted above, if it gets to high, the body, for some reason, has a harder time breaking the rbcs down (e.g. like going through valves etc) so it can get out of control pretty fast. It killed a lot of dutch (i think) years ago---it is sor of a deadly combo of a low resting HR b/c of endurance + glue-like blood.
bbs know about it b/c androgens increase rbcs--just not like equipoise or epo.
it is easy to control the water with various anti-estrogens and the type of test etc, but if you compete and are subject to testing all the stuff is banned. I have been off for a whole year b/c of injury than repro endo ordered no riding, but i started again today--as a sad out of shape fat f*ck
Shivers
New member
Excellent advice... I used 125mg Test stacked with 200mg EQ and 15IU's of HGH every week and finished an Ironman. This worked amazing for me. The EQ will boost your RBC without the dangers associated with EPO.
PINTOBEAN
New member
"Excellent advice... I used 125mg Test stacked with 200mg EQ and 15IU's of HGH every week and finished an Ironman. This worked amazing for me. The EQ will boost your RBC without the dangers associated with EPO."-Shivers
Wow that's great congrats! Ironman that's for real, Full Iron right?
Shivers this is a question: Is there a reason why you came up with 125mg test and 200mg EQ, 15IU's HGH-trial and error?
Tried other dosage and didn't work? Did other doses hinder your training and if so in what way? If so this seems like a 'low' dose of Test EQ. I checked out your other posts and I read you've done a a couple cycles too long. Were these too much also and thus the lower dose?
I know there are other posts/threads addressing AAS and endurance on Elite but none lately- Are there any compounds you tried that didn't work? Adversely effected training goals?
So much of the stuff on here is "get bigger", "get ripped", "what are your stats" Well I'm 5' 9" and weigh 240LBS and I'm 9%-What a crock of s##%! Dude there's no way you can be 5' 9" with 9%-but I get the feeling that for a lot of bro's looking the part is key. Like I was at the gym the other day and this dude was just staring in the mirror at himself, hypotized like WTF dude-first time you encountered a mirror? Narcissus stared at the water, in love with his own reflection. Now I know body mechanics and proper form and mirrors help-but to be totally focused on how you appear to others is a pretty small attitude to me. With an Ironman-it's getting the job done, looking the part doesn't have any effect on getting to the finish. None.
I can say from experience that cardio to a body builder which for now I'll call a 'poser' is so different for an endurance athlete/pro or amateur that you can't even use the same term. Fifteen minutes on a treadmill, or 15 minutes on one of those worthless Johnny G pieces of trash- is like maybe a warm up or something. And so likewise AAS, what the look good dude is using may be totally worthless for an athlete who actually does his thing outside the gym, and I don't mean a beauty pagaent self-indulgent stage. And since so few enduance people are on here or are willing to admit they use AAS, it's hard to even make a generalization about what may work and in what amounts for an endurance athlete.
But for you Test 125 and EQ200 are working? right? Any sides? What are the improvements.
Garbage #1: I can tell without a doubt what doesn't work for me. Ephedrine, ECA stack, whatever-absolute garbage, I'd be better off smoking crack does not work for me. It raises my heart rate without an improvement in output. It causes profuse sweating ie =dehydration. Raise in body temp which leads to overheating. Later on muscle cramps, nausea shaky jittery speedy BS which have no place in endurance. Now for the 20 minute treadmill boy/girl, fine-Go head do a 15 minute pose on the treadmill, and stare in the mirror while your at it-hey man knock yourself out but again that's really not cardio.
Garbage #2: Clenbuterol, Clen, total crap. Now again for a treadmill poser, maybe great stuff, strutting their stuff in front of the mirror. But on the roads on me pure useless garbage. My resting heart rate went from upper 40's low 50's to like 115-in the course of four weeks. Cardio sucked. Absolutely sucked on Clen and how anyone in their right mind would reccomend this crap to anyone but their ex-wife or their worst enemy is beyond me. Profuse sweating, felt like running uphill all the time.
Within five days of dropping this crap my HR was back in the low 50's and I could run again. So for me at least these products are cardio killers.
Oh yeah, EPO did work wonders. Although my HCT was so high I looked like I had a perpetual tan, absolutely red. So I'd have to give a thumbs up to EPO.
Anyone out there found anything that works?
Wow that's great congrats! Ironman that's for real, Full Iron right?
Shivers this is a question: Is there a reason why you came up with 125mg test and 200mg EQ, 15IU's HGH-trial and error?
Tried other dosage and didn't work? Did other doses hinder your training and if so in what way? If so this seems like a 'low' dose of Test EQ. I checked out your other posts and I read you've done a a couple cycles too long. Were these too much also and thus the lower dose?
I know there are other posts/threads addressing AAS and endurance on Elite but none lately- Are there any compounds you tried that didn't work? Adversely effected training goals?
So much of the stuff on here is "get bigger", "get ripped", "what are your stats" Well I'm 5' 9" and weigh 240LBS and I'm 9%-What a crock of s##%! Dude there's no way you can be 5' 9" with 9%-but I get the feeling that for a lot of bro's looking the part is key. Like I was at the gym the other day and this dude was just staring in the mirror at himself, hypotized like WTF dude-first time you encountered a mirror? Narcissus stared at the water, in love with his own reflection. Now I know body mechanics and proper form and mirrors help-but to be totally focused on how you appear to others is a pretty small attitude to me. With an Ironman-it's getting the job done, looking the part doesn't have any effect on getting to the finish. None.
I can say from experience that cardio to a body builder which for now I'll call a 'poser' is so different for an endurance athlete/pro or amateur that you can't even use the same term. Fifteen minutes on a treadmill, or 15 minutes on one of those worthless Johnny G pieces of trash- is like maybe a warm up or something. And so likewise AAS, what the look good dude is using may be totally worthless for an athlete who actually does his thing outside the gym, and I don't mean a beauty pagaent self-indulgent stage. And since so few enduance people are on here or are willing to admit they use AAS, it's hard to even make a generalization about what may work and in what amounts for an endurance athlete.
But for you Test 125 and EQ200 are working? right? Any sides? What are the improvements.
Garbage #1: I can tell without a doubt what doesn't work for me. Ephedrine, ECA stack, whatever-absolute garbage, I'd be better off smoking crack does not work for me. It raises my heart rate without an improvement in output. It causes profuse sweating ie =dehydration. Raise in body temp which leads to overheating. Later on muscle cramps, nausea shaky jittery speedy BS which have no place in endurance. Now for the 20 minute treadmill boy/girl, fine-Go head do a 15 minute pose on the treadmill, and stare in the mirror while your at it-hey man knock yourself out but again that's really not cardio.
Garbage #2: Clenbuterol, Clen, total crap. Now again for a treadmill poser, maybe great stuff, strutting their stuff in front of the mirror. But on the roads on me pure useless garbage. My resting heart rate went from upper 40's low 50's to like 115-in the course of four weeks. Cardio sucked. Absolutely sucked on Clen and how anyone in their right mind would reccomend this crap to anyone but their ex-wife or their worst enemy is beyond me. Profuse sweating, felt like running uphill all the time.
Within five days of dropping this crap my HR was back in the low 50's and I could run again. So for me at least these products are cardio killers.
Oh yeah, EPO did work wonders. Although my HCT was so high I looked like I had a perpetual tan, absolutely red. So I'd have to give a thumbs up to EPO.
Anyone out there found anything that works?
Last edited:
Shivers
New member
Yeah - Full Ironman 2.4mi swim, 112mi bike and a 26.2 marathon. I came up with that dose through a combination of trail and error and also many hours of research. Also had some advice from a former pro cyclist. 125mg of test a week is really the largest physiological dose that will give you T levels back when you were in your teens early 20's. Any more and you enter into pharmacological dosing which is not normally found in the human body. I my opinion, once you enter into pharmacological doses the risk is too high for sides. ie. water weight, leg cramps, gaining pretty muscles that doesn't help performance etc. T levels almost always get suppressed in endurance athletes. The T was used to just aid in recovery and keep my body absorbing the training I was throwing at it. The EQ was used to increase RBC and was the advice I received from the pro cyclist and just stuck with it, no real trial and error there. I stuck with those 2 for about 3 or 4 months and then came into some quality 191aa HGH. I started taking the hgh and the stubborn belly fat really started coming off fast, my endurance increased even more and some of the minor aches and pains from all the training disappeared (and my skin looks great 
). I plan on doing another Ironman in 2010 and will most definatly stick to the same plan. By the way I'm 38, 6' and weigh 165. I'm not sure what my BF% is. That kind of stuff doesn't really matter to me.
). I plan on doing another Ironman in 2010 and will most definatly stick to the same plan. By the way I'm 38, 6' and weigh 165. I'm not sure what my BF% is. That kind of stuff doesn't really matter to me.mammalspod
New member
EPO is ridiculously expensive and causes a significant amount of deaths in the endurance sports. That's why the Tour de France stepped up its anti-doping starting in the late 90's. Unless you really stand to financially benefit from increased performance, its probably a bad idea. And if you do, you can probably afford a doctor to monitor your usage. If you are looking for something to boost performance without that level of risk and expense, check out the beta-2 agonists (clenbuterol, albuterol, etc.) They are surprisingly effective, cheap, and relatively safe. You'd have to be an idiot to try to run your own blood-doping operation.
Steroids for endurance training
Can any advise me on what, when and how much to take in order to improve, I have no experience in steroids and I have a 5 month window in the off season to use where I will not be dope tested .I will be training for 30-35 hrs a week, weigh 130lb and 5%body fat and 5,7ft tall. ,can anyone advise me on any steroids or blood boosters and where to get them,
Thanks
Can any advise me on what, when and how much to take in order to improve, I have no experience in steroids and I have a 5 month window in the off season to use where I will not be dope tested .I will be training for 30-35 hrs a week, weigh 130lb and 5%body fat and 5,7ft tall. ,can anyone advise me on any steroids or blood boosters and where to get them,
Thanks
