Biotest's 4-AD-EC, thoughts

[latinus_spicticus]

Just got 3 bottles of this in the mail today. I am going to start it in two or three weeks and run it with some 1AD at 400mg/day. The 4ad ec will be used at 400mg, then 200mg daily. For those of you who don't know, 4-ad-ec is the 4ad component of Mag-10. I don't like transdermals, so I've never really experienced 4ad's supposed CNS stimulation and libido stimulatory effects. I am looking forward to it. If the stuff doesnt work, I guess I will get a refund like I did with tribex. Is anyone else planning on trying the 4-ad-ec out?

 

[pa1ad]

Just got 3 bottles of this in the mail today. I am going to start it in two or three weeks and run it with some 1AD at 400mg/day. The 4ad ec will be used at 400mg, then 200mg daily. For those of you who don't know, 4-ad-ec is the 4ad component of Mag-10. I don't like transdermals, so I've never really experienced 4ad's supposed CNS stimulation and libido stimulatory effects. I am looking forward to it. If the stuff doesnt work, I guess I will get a refund like I did with tribex. Is anyone else planning on trying the 4-ad-ec out?

Please do not take this product with 1-AD. What will happen is you will get good gains from the 1-AD and then assume that the 4-AD EC is good too. YOu may just as well take androstenedione with anadrol and then give the adione a thumbs up.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Pat, why are you such a dick? I've tried 1AD on three seperate occasions and I got great results every time. You know what, Biotest and everyone I talked to said that it was a scam. If I listened to them, I would never have taken it. Everyone said Androsol, Androspray, Mag10, even regular ol' 4AD were scams. But most of the feedback from these products are positive. The reason I am going to try 4-AD=EC is because the transdermals don't seem to work for me and the cyclodextrin 4AD used intranasally was too irritating to use for more than 3 days. Since 1AD kills your libido after a week or so, I would like to have the CNS stimulation and libido improvement of 4AD for my cycle. Shit, I am pretty positive it will work better since many unbiased reports say that Mag 10 works. I know one guy at my gym that likes mag10 better than 1-ad. And most people complain of libido loss on 1-ad, no one complains about it with Mag10. So I am going to give 4-ad-ec a shot. If it doesn't work, I will get a refund. If it does, it will hopefully solve 1AD's decadick effect.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

BTW, didn't you used to sell androstenedione? Are you going to chastise yourself about being a shill that sold worthless supps like you do re: biotest? Just to let you know, I will be buying my 1AD from Kilosports from now on. So what I stack with it won't be any business of yours. Oh yeah, and despite the fact that you've slammed these products--I will be trying Molecular Nutrition's Boldione and SAN T-100 in the near future based on positive UNbiased reports from users.

 

[wojo]

why even ask this question if you plan on using it anyway Pat has commmented enough about this type of delivery system.go to the t-mag forum9it seems like it is better suited for your needs) and ask this question if your search(you did do one right) and questions didn't turn up satisfactory answers.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

why even ask this question if you plan on using it anyway Pat has commmented enough about this type of delivery system.go to the t-mag forum9it seems like it is better suited for your needs) and ask this question if your search(you did do one right) and questions didn't turn up satisfactory answers.

You are extremely uninformed. The only question I asked was if anyone else was interested in 4-ad-ec. I wasn't looking for a specific answer. Using the search engine would be POINTLESS, since Biotest only announced the product ONE WEEK AGO. And I know that pat has ''commented'' on this delivery system. He slammed it. He slams everything that is not Ergopharm-- BFD. I know that Mag-10 and Boldione work because I personally know people that made gains from them. What were you thinking when you made that post?

 

[Monolith1]

Hey Latinus,

Wouldn't it be easier just to do mag10?

 

[pa1ad]

Pat, why are you such a dick? I've tried 1AD on three seperate occasions and I got great results every time. You know what, Biotest and everyone I talked to said that it was a scam. If I listened to them, I would never have taken it. Everyone said Androsol, Androspray, Mag10, even regular ol' 4AD were scams. But most of the feedback from these products are positive. The reason I am going to try 4-AD=EC is because the transdermals don't seem to work for me and the cyclodextrin 4AD used intranasally was too irritating to use for more than 3 days. Since 1AD kills your libido after a week or so, I would like to have the CNS stimulation and libido improvement of 4AD for my cycle. Shit, I am pretty positive it will work better since many unbiased reports say that Mag 10 works. I know one guy at my gym that likes mag10 better than 1-ad. And most people complain of libido loss on 1-ad, no one complains about it with Mag10. So I am going to give 4-ad-ec a shot. If it doesn't work, I will get a refund. If it does, it will hopefully solve 1AD's decadick effect.

So I am a dick? Why? Because I tried to point out the fact that it is imposssible to determine the true efficacy of one prohormone if you are taking it along with another known effective prohormone? I am sorry I even come to these boards sometimes.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

"YOu may just as well take androstenedione with anadrol and then give the adione a thumbs up.".

Did you say this? I thought so. Your response to my question was extremely condescending and insulting. Or do you think this is a normal way to respond to a perfectly normal question? By the way, I didn't address you specifically, nor did I ask a question about stacking it with 1AD--my original question asked if anyone else was interested in the 4AD-EC compound. So you didn't even respond to my original question--you rudely stated that I was going to tell everyone 4AD was good because of the 1AD. How insecure are you, really?




"Please do not take this product with 1-AD. What will happen is you will get good gains from the 1-AD and then assume that the 4-AD EC is good too"

So somehow you just knew that I would attribute the gains from 1AD to the 4AD-EC? Not only are you a dick, you are an egomaniac and are on the same level as Brock Strasser in regards to egomania and ripping on other companies' products.

 

[tony1]

Why would you take 1ad and biotests mag 10 together if both are some form or precursor to 1 testosterone? Wouldn't that be like taking 4ad in pill form stacked with 4ad transdermal and coming to the conclusion that the 4ad pill form really works great. Wouldn't the point of seeing if something really works be isolating it by itself first. If you have used 1ad before and it works how will know if any positive gains were made from Mag 10. I don't think Pat stepped out of line on this one.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Some of you need to work on your reading comprehension.

I AM NOT TAKING MAG-10 with 1AD. I am going to use the 4-AD-EC component of Mag-10 with 1AD to offset the side-effect of decreased libido and lack of CNS stimulation attributed to 1AD use. Get a fucking clue before posting. I don't care if you don't think PA was out of line with his post--he was and he is a egomaniacal faggot. If I wanted to get really personal I would rip on his girlfriend who looks like an alien. But I won't elaborate on that as I feel sorry for her (and him).

 

[pa1ad]

"YOu may just as well take androstenedione with anadrol and then give the adione a thumbs up.".

Did you say this? I thought so. Your response to my question was extremely condescending and insulting. Or do you think this is a normal way to respond to a perfectly normal question? By the way, I didn't address you specifically, nor did I ask a question about stacking it with 1AD--my original question asked if anyone else was interested in the 4AD-EC compound. So you didn't even respond to my original question--you rudely stated that I was going to tell everyone 4AD was good because of the 1AD. How insecure are you, really?




"Please do not take this product with 1-AD. What will happen is you will get good gains from the 1-AD and then assume that the 4-AD EC is good too"

So somehow you just knew that I would attribute the gains from 1AD to the 4AD-EC? Not only are you a dick, you are an egomaniac and are on the same level as Brock Strasser in regards to egomania and ripping on other companies' products.

No, but you are a sensitive estrogen boy whose obviously got his fallopian tubes tied in a huge knot.

Are you bitchy cuz they just announce the cancellation of Ally McBeal? What is it?

 

[megadeth]

Oh, Patrick, always the asshole! LOL

Lat, I use to wonder the same thing, but then I just realized that this is just Pat's style.
It sound like you are taking his first response a little bit too personally. It sound like he was taking more of a shot at 4ad-ec, than you.

You also have to realize that you are not going to find too many guys that very interested in dicussing Biotest products(especially on this board)on many board outside of the t-mag board. So, of course your going to get some smart ass answers!

Comparing PA to Brock/Bruce is hitting WAAAAAYYYY under the belt. If pat rips a product he normally will give a very plausable reason why he thing it will now work or why he thinks it is just plain shit.

Brock on the other hand is motivated by envy, spite and jealousy, and like his other co-hores at biotest would sell their own mother for a nickle. Think about it, every product that Brock warned about in his old consumer watchdog column is still on the market save Triax(which should still be there). What does that tell you? And when has Pat ever trashed product like he has? I'd like to know.

Shoot him a private email and you will realize how down to earth & cool he can be(or not). Lighten up, bro.

Megadeth

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Okay, PussyAss. You can't use logic to debate with me on this because you were in the wrong with your first (and all subsequent posts on this topic) post and you know it! BTW, I have been using liquidex at .5mg eod for 2 months now, and according to a saliva test my estradiol was extremely low and test came out to be 886ng/dl. So there goes your lame "estrogen boy" theory. BTW, I started the 4AD-EC yesterday and my libido has already kicked into overdrive and I felt very strong in the gym this afternoon. My normal sets of 5 with 325 in the flat bench press felt lighter than normal. Maybe this is placebo but I haven't touched a steroid/prohormone for 8 weeks and the only thing I am on is liquidex and (for 2 days now) 4-AD-EC. BTW, even though my libido is sky high I still wouldn't touch your nasty-assed alienhead fiance. Just exactly what did you give her to cause that veiny projection-screen forehead and misshapen jawline? Did you sneak some andro into her eas spermoplex lite? In case you're wondering, I saw you and her up close at the arnold so I am not exaggerating when I say that she is very inhuman appearing. You aren't exactly a looker, either, Nero boy. Kelcey has a somewhat nice body if you can stomach the white-trash flab, but her head resembles the queen alien that Sigourney Weaver wasted in Alien. I still cannot get over the fact that you have become a bigger megalomaniac than all of the assfamily at Biotest are combined! Hehehe. Good luck with you next supplement, PussyAss.

 

[smokinghawk]

Pat, why are you such a dick? I've tried 1AD on three seperate occasions and I got great results every time. You know what, Biotest and everyone I talked to said that it was a scam. If I listened to them, I would never have taken it.

...soooo, you've just admitted that Biotest's advice and assurances about supplements are UNTRUE and MISLEADING? And yet you still trusted in their honesty and accuracy enough to buy their 4-AD-EC product anyway? Man, you're like the abused woman who keeps going back to her abuser because THIS time he promises it's for real!

Also, what IS it with people who buy poducts first and then ask other people if they think it's a good product?

 

[Monolith1]

Does 4-AD-EC cause roid rage hahaha.

 

[Testoman]

I loooooooooooooooooooooove it.

Definitely not your everyday thread.!!!!!!!!!!!!

Testoman

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Okay guys, I will admit that I let myself get out of hand. I apologize for any insults or nasty things I've said on this thread.

I realize that Biotest is not a favorite among people on most internet discussion boards. You can not deny, however, that some of their products (Mag-10, Grow) do work to an extent. yes, they tend to exaggerate their claims but so does Ergopharm and most other supp companies; case in point: the "1AD is 700% more potent than testosterone" claim by PA.

An update: I am on day 3 of the 4-AD-EC. I used two doses (400mg total) on day 1, then one dose the other two days. I am not lying when I say that my libido has increased threefold. I was clean for 8 weeks (sans the .5mg liquidex eod) and was waking up with morning wood on most days, and I would say I had a high sex drive. Now, my sex drive is way up and I am popping boners every hour or two, I also feel stronger. This is exactly what 4AD is reputed to do. Am I saying that the 4ad-ec is better than transdermal 4AD or 4AD in 1g+ doses? Not necessarily. But I have never achieved any effects like these from 4-ad spray or 1 gram doses of the oral powder from kilosports. I will admit that transdermals don't work well for me, as I didn't gain from androsol, andro-spray, or Avant Labs' ONE, all of which cause noticable gains in most users.

Having said that, I will never buy an ergopharm product again now that I have found a bulk supplier of 1-test that is 98%HPLC pure, as opposed to Kilocraps' impure powder. I will, however, buy all of my 1AD from Kilosports in the future now that I am boycotting ergopharm and they are the only other supplier. I will also refer the guys at my gym to save a lot of money by buying from kilosports instead of ergopharm as well. After acting the way he did, Pat Arnold deserves no business from me or those whom I associate with.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

...soooo, you've just admitted that Biotest's advice and assurances about supplements are UNTRUE and MISLEADING? And yet you still trusted in their honesty and accuracy enough to buy their 4-AD-EC product anyway? Man, you're like the abused woman who keeps going back to her abuser because THIS time he promises it's for real!

Also, what IS it with people who buy poducts first and then ask other people if they think it's a good product?

That was a typo. I meant to say that everyone (not biotest) told me it wouldn't work. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Triple A]

What are the side effects

Does anyone know the side effects of 4-AD-EC? Does it increase male pattern baldness if you are already prone to it, will it increase acne, does it cause gyno? I have not used Mag 10 for these reasons but am looking to possibly use 4-Ad-Ec if there are relatively few or low side effects. Thanks to anyone who answers.

 

[pa1ad]

Okay guys, I will admit that I let myself get out of hand. I apologize for any insults or nasty things I've said on this thread.

I realize that Biotest is not a favorite among people on most internet discussion boards. You can not deny, however, that some of their products (Mag-10, Grow) do work to an extent. yes, they tend to exaggerate their claims but so does Ergopharm and most other supp companies; case in point: the "1AD is 700% more potent testosterone" claim by PA.

Nice try but I never said that. What I have said was that 1-testosterone has been shown to be over 700% as anabolic as testosterone. This is substantiated in more than one study and i provide the references in my literature. You don't like the data then argue with the original researchers, not me.

I never make any statements about the efficacy of my products without backing them up with solid research. Fact is, I do NOT exaggerate claims, never have. I just make effective products and they sell cuz they work.

Must suck to hate me but not be able to conjure up any evidence to disparage me.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Nice try but I never said that. What I have said was that 1-testosterone has been shown to be over 700% as anabolic as testosterone. This is substantiated in more than one study and i provide the references in my literature. You don't like the data then argue with the original researchers, not me.

I never make any statements about the efficacy of my products without backing them up with solid research. Fact is, I do NOT exaggerate claims, never have. I just make effective products and they sell cuz they work.

Must suck to hate me but not be able to conjure up any evidence to disparage me.

So you are saying that you've never sold a product that does not work? What about the now defunct norandrostenedione, DIM, or androstenedione that you used to sell? That was only good for losing wallet mass and/or achieving gyno.

BTW, your product will be unneccesary as you've already admitted that 4AD (especially the 4-ac-ec from biotest) negates the sexual dysfunction side-effect of 1AD.

Nor will anything you can create be able to compete with clomid or anastrazole. Both are better anti-estrogens than anything you could possibly sell as a supplement and both are cheap/legal.

1AD is the only effective product you have, and you have even admitted that you make little money off of its sales. Once prohormones are illegalized (its only a matter of time, and probably will happen sooner than later now that companies are starting to really push the legal envelope) you are going to be unemployed.

 

[Fortes]

Whoa bro!

Latinis, who crapped in your cereal this morning? At least PA doesn't go around quoting Roger Oppenheir when he talks about his supplements.

Oh yeah, and the evidence for any EC ester working is shite - there is NO research to support it. Even prescription Andriol caps (Testosterone Undecanoate) promise a delivery rate of around 3-6%, which is quite laughable in my opinion. You'd have to spend 50 dollars a day on the stuff to get any results.

For them to state ontop of all the other bull that "one dose is sufficient for a 24 hour period" is such horse-dukey it makes me sick.

But let us know how it goes, and how it compared to 1-AD by itself . . . though my best logic compells me to reject 4-AD-EC as complete trash, I still find myself curious.

BTW, how did all your previous 1-AD cycles go?

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Re: Whoa bro!

Latinis, who crapped in your cereal this morning? At least PA doesn't go around quoting Roger Oppenheir when he talks about his supplements.

Oh yeah, and the evidence for any EC ester working is shite - there is NO research to support it. Even prescription Andriol caps (Testosterone Undecanoate) promise a delivery rate of around 3-6%, which is quite laughable in my opinion. You'd have to spend 50 dollars a day on the stuff to get any results.

For them to state ontop of all the other bull that "one dose is sufficient for a 24 hour period" is such horse-dukey it makes me sick.

But let us know how it goes, and how it compared to 1-AD by itself . . . though my best logic compells me to reject 4-AD-EC as complete trash, I still find myself curious.

BTW, how did all your previous 1-AD cycles go?

Who the fuck is roger oppenheir? Can you say "self-projection"?

Anyway, this is the fourth day of 4-AD-EC and thusfar it has worked to increase my libido and increase the feeling of being "on" an androgen better than any other 4AD product (androspray, androsol, cyclodiol, regular 4ad powder) I've ever tried. I haven't been sleeping well since I started, which makes me think that it is either coincidental or that the 4AD-EC is active for more than just a few hours.

I've done three 1AD cycles before and have usually gained about a pound of muscle per week when using it alone. I've decided against using it with the 4ad-ec since I have the feeling that I am going to get decent gains with this stuff alone. I will use the 2.5 bottles of 1AD I have left when I do my injectable 4AD that I am going to make with the 98%HPLC tested powder and a U100 kit. I'll get my 1AD from kilosports here on out or I just will start trying out other stuff like 3-alpha and 1,4ADD since I refuse to buy from PussyAss's company any longer.

 

[pa1ad]

So you are saying that you've never sold a product that does not work? What about the now defunct norandrostenedione, DIM, or androstenedione that you used to sell? That was only good for losing wallet mass and/or achieving gyno.

I never sold norandrostenedione or DIM. And my promotion of androstenedione was very conservative and cautious when it came out. BTW smarty pants, If it had not come out first then there would have never been any 1-AD. Its really easy for a loser with nothing to show for his life to sit back and take pot shots at someone who works his ass off to make a difference, isn't it? Sure androstenedione sucked, but it had to be introduced first before we could find that out. After adione I kept improving and now there is 1-AD. Now if I had been the kind of person you are, then i would never have left my mommy and daddys house and we would still be talking about HMB and DHEA here

 

[notpuff]

Wether the product sucked or not you still gotta give props to PA for releasing androstendione . i mean he is right if he never released androstendione then there never would be 1-testor 1-ad etc. plus there are many reasons why it took balls to produce that stuff in the first place , he could have been scared of possible legal actions , i remebr i read a newsletter put out by PA years ago i think 98 or 99 where he said he was hesitant about releasing 19-nordiol because he didnt know if there would be legal ramifications so we should be thanking him

 

[Fortes]

Roger Oppenheimer (sorry, typo) is one of the physicists who worked on the Manhatten Project.

When he saw the first prototype nuke explode into a mushroom cloud back in the 40's, he quoted some Vedic scripture:

"Now I am become death; the Destroyer of Worlds."

Biotest took that quote and attached it to their MAG-10 hype script when it first came out.

As far as "self-projection" I haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about. I assymed that you, being a Biotest user and a T-mag reader, would recognize what I was saying.

Congrats on the good gains from the 1-AD. I gained around 3 pounds weekly when I was on 400mg/day, but I was also taking 1 gram of 4-AD daily stacked, in the same dosage regimen (4X a day).

Oh yeah, and BTW, both Biotest and PA have taken potshots at each other . . . I just don't know who started the whole thing. Biotest has been, IMO, especially nasty - but then again, their the Kings of Hype. What do you expect?

Oh yeah, and if you would calm yourself down you'd realize that PA is a cool guy. You don't see TC and Jock Strapper on Elite and other boards taking crap from guys like you . . . and the T-Mag board is so moderated and lame comparatively. At least Pat relies on good, honest marketing techiques like user feedback to sell and improve his products.

I have a feeling that this Myostatin thing is going to be a big flash in the pan . . . if so, T-mag/Biotest will lose a LOT of credibility, and rightly so.

P.S. T-mag has not been the same since Poliquin left. I do like some of John Berardi, Don Alessi, Ian King and Coach Davie's stuff, however - but I don't think any of 'em can compare with the inimitable style of Chucky P.

 

[pa1ad]

Wether the product sucked or not you still gotta give props to PA for releasing androstendione . i mean he is right if he never released androstendione then there never would be 1-testor 1-ad etc. plus there are many reasons why it took balls to produce that stuff in the first place , he could have been scared of possible legal actions , i remebr i read a newsletter put out by PA years ago i think 98 or 99 where he said he was hesitant about releasing 19-nordiol because he didnt know if there would be legal ramifications so we should be thanking him

We were all very worried about what kind of trouble selling that stuff would get us into at the time. That was unprecedented new ground. Today people don't remember any of that. Today they just say "Give us legal anadrol or your'e a scammer!!"

 

[notpuff]

We were all very worried about what kind of trouble selling that stuff would get us into at the time. That was unprecedented new ground. Today people don't remember any of that. Today they just say "Give us legal anadrol or your'e a scammer!!"

hes right ,so even if u hate him you still gotta give him props

also im sure the first ever steroid synthesized (i have no clue whaT IT was just making a assumtion) wasnt so great either or had allot of sides like androstendione

 

[pa1ad]

hes right ,so even if u hate him you still gotta give him props

also im sure the first ever steroid synthesized (i have no clue whaT IT was just making a assumtion) wasnt so great either or had allot of sides like androstendione

The first androgen ever used in therapy was androsterone. It is a very weak androgen but it had a measurable effect on hypogonadal subjects at the time. Did this mean the scientists that tested it and used it were scammers? Was Henry Ford a scammer for selling the Model A piece of crap? Jeezus H, you got to start somewhere

 

[1fast400]

Can anyone smell that..........sniff sniff sniff.......smells like a spammer to me. Not only that, but an ignorant spammer.

 

[notpuff]

The first androgen ever used in therapy was androsterone. It is a very weak androgen but it had a measurable effect on hypogonadal subjects at the time. Did this mean the scientists that tested it and used it were scammers? Was Henry Ford a scammer for selling the Model A piece of crap? Jeezus H, you got to start somewhere

Whats androsterone ? i also heard they used androstendione(androtex) in the early days as therapy

 

[pa1ad]

Whats androsterone ? i also heard they used androstendione(androtex) in the early days as therapy

Androsterone is the main urinary androgen metabolite. A french scientist isolated it from male urine and injected it into hypogonadal men around 100 years ago or something

 

[supermanstanley]

pa1ad your still the man!!!

I also give props to pa1ad for 1-ad I love that stuff, Thats some good sh#t. I took two bottle of 1-ad ran it with some 4ad that I had laying around and gained about 10 pounds. I used 600mgs of 1-ad a day and 1000mgs of 4-ad, and man I got strong . Im thinking about runnig some 1-test but some people still say they get better results out of 1-ad. Huh thats strange because 1-test is supposed to be what 1-ad converts to. But anyway pa1ad your the man!! Oh guys that experiment with the boldione I got two bottles of that stuff and ran about 600mgs a day and did not see any results. Did anybody else?

aka superman

 

[smokinghawk]

I'm taking 4 caps of 1-AD a day with DNP. Seems like a contrary stack, doesnt it? "Dude, either bulk or cut, but don't try both!"

Yeah, well, my weight has changed by a mere 3-4 pounds over two weeks, while my fat has reduced noticeably.

I only regret I had underdosed DNP from D*L* to use instead of potent stuff...