Maybe something is wrong with me, but I think gainers are a good way to get extra calories. They should not be relied upon, you should always eat as much whole food as possible, but it's not always easy to eat 1,000 calories at every meal. I am 6'1 250 and I still have visible abs and I eat a box of frosted sugar cookies a day. I am stuck at that weight. You guys make it sound like if you eat any extra calories you will turn into a fat ass. You have to have ample calories to put on size period. Trying to keep abs when you bulk if ridiculous. Do I think you should get sloppy like Lee Priest? No, i don't, but to get big sometimes you need to put on some bodyfat. If you want to be on the cover of Runners World that's great, I don't. You aren't factoring in the differences in metabolism, genetics, training intensity, drugs, etc. I'll keep drinking extra calories and getting bigger, while you worry about your abs. I don't mean to sound like a dick, it just angers me when people hold other people back.