Best for fat burning----walking or running

[Golfer18--old]

I don't like running or walking. I use the cross trainer (elliptical sp?) machine for 35 minutes at a moderate pace. No impact on my knees, I get a good sweat, and it works pretty damn good along with a diet. Running for me burns to much muscle and walking takes atleast 45 minutes to get the same affect of 15 minutes running. Someting in between running and walking is good. I don't think jogging is the answer. Maybe swimming. Everyone is different. Someone may say the cross trainer sucks and running works better. You can do all the studies you want but different things work better for different people.

 

[Seth]

This is just my thinking – I don’t know crap but this seems logical to me:
Weight loss is taking in less calories then you consume.
Running, walking and swimming all burn more calories then not doing those things.
You can either do them or eat less food.
I don’t believe that if you burn 400 cals running you will lose more muscle then if you just ate 400 cals less that day. This may not apply to you if you are trying to get from 7% bf to 6% body fat.
Either way you have to be under your maintenance level to lose weight.
If your body started to break down some muscle to fuel your workout, then the extra 400 cals that you consume would go towards rebuilding your muscles – remember, you are still under your maintenance amount of cals, so it is not going to be converted to fat.

 

[jboldman]

OK Nelson, here is a study that seems to indicate that exercise on an empty stomach does indeed burn MORE fat than exercising on a full or partially full stomach.
===========================================
Int J Sports Med 1988 Jun;9(3):240-3 Related Articles, Links

Energy metabolism during exercise at different time intervals following a meal.

Willcutts KF, Wilcox AR, Grunewald KK.

Department of Physical Education, Dance and Leisure Studies, Kansas State University, Manhattan 66506.

The objective of this study was to compare caloric expenditure and substrate utilization during exercise begun at different time intervals following a standard test meal or in the fasted state. Eight physically fit women (aged 21-27 years) participated in four separate exercise trials. In three trials, the subjects consumed a 940-kcal meal following an overnight fast and began exercising either 30, 60, or 90 min after the meal. In the other trial, the subjects did not consume any breakfast prior to exercising. Energy expenditure and substrate utilization were determined by indirect calorimetry during the last 23 min of a 30-min run on a treadmill at an average work load of 62% VO2max. There were no significant differences among trials when comparing the total caloric expenditures (range: 215-219 kcal). However, the subjects oxidized significantly more fat (94.3 kcal) when they exercised on an empty stomach than when they exercised 60 or 90 min after the meal (71.6 and 68.8 kcal, respectively) (P less than 0.05). It was concluded that consumption of a meal prior to exercise does not increase the energy cost of the activity for physically fit women, but it does disrupt the pattern of substrate utilization, reducing the contribution of fat as an energy source.

You wants studies -- do a search.

The next source of fuel would be....? Muscle.

Just because you have an "empty stomach" doesn't mean you're gylcogen depleted.

For everyone who says they had success with this method, I can find someone who had equal success without it -- which is another way of saying there were other factors involved and not those percieved.

Swimming is only a good way to burn calories if you aren't a good swimmer. Skilled, leisurly swimming will barely burn the calories of a bowl of oatmeal in 30 minutes.

 

[Nelson Montana]

John G: You're not serious, are you? You're suggesting that if HR gets too high you stop burning fat? Don't mean to flame son, but you're clueless on this one.

DaMann. Of course skill is a factor. Do you think a skilled runner burns as much energy running a mile as someone who is out of shape? If so, you're way off track.

DKH. The good swimmers dont have good bodies because they're good swimmers. They're good swimmers beause they have good bodies! The fat swimmers don't do as well.

Seth: True, everything burns calories. That's the point I'm trying to get across. There is nothing magical about aerobics.

You can only do a certin amount of activity before you overtrain. A bodybuilder should do the maximum amount of bodybuilding. Why waste energy with something that doesn't build muscle and burns less calories than lifting weights? AND PLEASE NOBODY WRITE TO SAY IT'S TO RAISE HEART RATE! Weightlifting raises heart rate just fine.

 

[Vageta]

Eight physically fit women (aged 21-27 years) participated in four separate exercise trials.

Seeing that I'm not a woman I don't see how this study has anything to do with me. At any rate I don't doubt that there may be some benefit to doing cardio on an empty stomach versus after a meal. My point has always been that doing cardio at any time is still 100x better than not doing it at all. I have anything but a fast metabolism and I can burn plenty of fat without doing cardio at all, I don't quite get all this confusion over cardio as if it matters all that much.

Pick a type of exercise you can handle for an extended amount of time. Do it whenever is convenient for you and don't second guess yourself with all of this bullshit data about which is "best". Most of us would do better just sticking with something instead of jumping on the next best thing that crops up on these boards daily.

 

[ST0RM SHADOW]

Personally (and remember, I said "personally"), if it's just the idea of reducing fat and NO other reason, I would suggest going to the Fina Board and talk to Swole Cat and the other Brothers about fat reduction. They got it down to a science and it's worked for A LOT of people including me.

 

[Advaik]

Somehow you all lost sight of a very basic biological idea.

Basically how it goes is when you are at your target heart rate or below you will use sugar as fuel. Once you get beyond that target heart rate your body can't metabolise the sugar quick enough and you start to use your muscle fibers as fuel. An easy way to find out your target heart rate is if you can talk while jogging you are fine, once you get to the point where you can no longer talk then you are above your target heart rate and are now in a catabolic state where your muscles feed off itself to fuel itself.

The basic idea of muscle memory is that once your muscles reachs a certain size the muscles "remember" how many muscle fibers it as. If you stop training you'll lose muscle mass, but once you start again your body will quickly regenerate these muscle fibers.

Now let's get an idea straight that you all know. The better shape you are, the lower your heart rate. The more you push your heartrate, the better shape you'll be in.

Let's put all 3 togeather. Get your fat ugly ass in shape and run. You will lose muscle fibers at first. You will lose fat. You will get faster. You will increase stamina. You will enhance endurance. You will have a healthier heartrate. After a while your endurance will be at a point where you can easily run at full speed without your heartrate going out of control. And after months of training your stamina will be well enough to keep this up for a good 20-30 minutes. At this point you will no longer be using muscle fibers as fuel because your heartrate isnt out of control. You will be using sugar as fuel. You will still be burning fat and in a hell of alot better shape. Best of all because of muscle memory you will be able to regain the muscle you lost!

Walking is for old people and fat people. Jogging is for girls. Running is for atheletes. Sprinting is for bodybuilders. Sprint at full speed for 1:30 minutes then walk (SLOWLY) for :30 minutes. Do this for 20-30 minutes. This will get your heartrate under control.

Now stop with the bullshit that running is catabolic. It's only catabolic if your fat ugly ass is out of shape, so get your ass in shape.

 

[Counterstrike]

Advaik

how do you suggest for one to deal with shin splints? i started jogging a while back 2 miles 3 times a week tog et in shape but stopped for 3 months b/c shin splints never went away and got worst. If i start running is that too hard for a beginner or atleast one that been layback for a while? will it improve endurance and stamina faster than jogging? I want and need distance like up to 5-6 miles so I don't think sprint will work for me.
Would Nolva help with this fat reduction at 10 mg ed?

 

[Andy13]

OK Nelson, here is a study that seems to indicate that exercise on an empty stomach does indeed burn MORE fat than exercising on a full or partially full stomach.
===========================================
Int J Sports Med 1988 Jun;9(3):240-3 Related Articles, Links

Energy metabolism during exercise at different time intervals following a meal.

Willcutts KF, Wilcox AR, Grunewald KK.

Department of Physical Education, Dance and Leisure Studies, Kansas State University, Manhattan 66506.

The objective of this study was to compare caloric expenditure and substrate utilization during exercise begun at different time intervals following a standard test meal or in the fasted state. Eight physically fit women (aged 21-27 years) participated in four separate exercise trials. In three trials, the subjects consumed a 940-kcal meal following an overnight fast and began exercising either 30, 60, or 90 min after the meal. In the other trial, the subjects did not consume any breakfast prior to exercising. Energy expenditure and substrate utilization were determined by indirect calorimetry during the last 23 min of a 30-min run on a treadmill at an average work load of 62% VO2max. There were no significant differences among trials when comparing the total caloric expenditures (range: 215-219 kcal). However, the subjects oxidized significantly more fat (94.3 kcal) when they exercised on an empty stomach than when they exercised 60 or 90 min after the meal (71.6 and 68.8 kcal, respectively) (P less than 0.05). It was concluded that consumption of a meal prior to exercise does not increase the energy cost of the activity for physically fit women, but it does disrupt the pattern of substrate utilization, reducing the contribution of fat as an energy source.

It seems as though we have this discussion going on in more than one location..

Here is a carbon copy of what I wrote about 30 min ago in another land..

Although I'm not familiar with the method of "indirect calorimetry" I still don't think the 90kcals of fat expenditure (empty stomach) is 'significantly' greater than the 70kcals expended after a meal..

Measurable? Yes..

Significant? Not REEEEALLY, IMO.

The article does however state that the TOTAL energy expenditure is the same..

No violation of the 1st law here and the gods of thermodynamics aren't upset; rejoice.

The conclusions from the article are pretty much in line with what I was saying...

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=191484

I DO believe that more fat (by % of total kcals) is expended when cardio is done in the fasted state compared to the fed state.. Although this difference (as measured by these folks) isn't all that significant, IMO..

All this is somewhat intuitive.. However, the article didn't address the question of whether AM cardio amounts to a greater fat loss than the same cardio done some other time of the day..

Mindful that a wrong answer may tend to upset the gods of thermodynamics..

Glancing quickly over my left and right shoulder for bolts of lightning, I say "no."

Andy

 

[Advaik]

http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/shin.html

Read that about shin splints. I don't know about shin splints getting worse, they supposed to get better with proper training. Are you stretching before running? You should always stretch every morning after a quick warm up and once again before training (again, with a warm up). If you still get shin splints then it could mean you have a poor running technique and are putting too much strain on your calves (which isn't neccessarily a bad thing because it increases calf size and strength, but it will cause problems with shin/calf pains and could hender your speed).

Also long distance running is probably catabolic. Again it depends on your heartrate, if you walk or jog for 5-6 miles it won't hurt but if you find yourself breathing heavily and not being able to talk then you'll need to slow down and get your heartrate under control. That's why i recommend sprinting, it allows your heartrate to go back down. No matter how good of shape you are in, you'll still have a target heart rate that you can go over. Look at basketball players for example, most arn't too big even though they have incredible stamina and endurance.

There's a biological function that I only know the basic idea to. It's that you can train yourself for either sprinting or long distance. When you sprint your heartrate will go up quicker, but will also go down quicker at rest. This is how football players train, in short spurts so their heartrate will go down quicker in between plays. Opposed to that, basketball players and soccer players train so that their heartrate goes up slower, but will also go down slower. I don't know the idea behind it, I remember I was taught it but I forgot the actual principles.

There's alot of things you have to take into consideration and I'm no biology major, but in short if you're in better shape and don't go over your target heart rate you won't go into a catabolic state when running/sprinting.

I should mention that sprinting burns calories, in case anyone here is wondering. You know, those things that build muscle. So yeah, if you run or sprint you won't gain as much muscle mass as you would if you didn't if you don't increase your calorie intake. Of course doing that defeats the purpose of running to lose fat, but if you keep it up your running even during bulking you'll be in alot better shape when it comes to cutting so therefor you won't lose as much muscle when cutting.

You could write a book on this shit and still not cover everything