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geoffgarst
New member
What is the best Anti-Estrogen (for gynecomastia) when taking Depo-Test?
Best Anti-Estrogen with Test?
- Thread starter geoffgarst
- Start date
geoffgarst
New member
Best Anti-E for taking 250mg x 2 per week (500mg Test per week)? Also, should it be taken from the git go or start somewhere in the cycle? Also, how long after the cycle?
psychedout
New member
Liquidex is good. Lots of people overdue it IMO.
I think 0.5mg every second day is best.
Some people may need more though -- not me however.
I think 0.5mg every second day is best.
Some people may need more though -- not me however.
geoffgarst
New member
What about Amiridex?
J
Juice Authority
Guest
Proviron imo, especially with Test since it's a DHT. Proviron also prevents estrogen formation, which is what leads to gyno. Proviron is an anti-aromatase.
twistedneck
New member
Masteron is DHT also. Anyone try it?
J
Juice Authority
Guest
twistedneck said:
I got some on the way. Everything I've read, researched and heard about is great. Big Cat has a very thorough profile on Masteron..
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catmast.htm
Mini Viper
New member
as posted by JA:::::roviron imo, especially with Test since it's a DHT. Proviron also prevents estrogen formation, which is what leads to gyno. Proviron is an anti-aromatase.
yes, I totally agree with JA, go with proviron works really well, prevents e from forming therefore, less retention and lesser chance of getting gyno! 25mg per day is good enough, can be used up to 50mg per day for improving libido also.
peace out
ancillaries cut down the potency of a/s
I would be very careful about suggesting proviron as a substitute for a real anti-e since there is not a shred of evidence that supports this. While unlikely that 500mg of tet will actually need any anti-e, the user just might be one of those very sensititve to estro effects and the proviron would do him no good.
jb
jb
Juice Authority said:
"Proviron has good binding to the androgen receptor, but in muscle tissue most of it never reaches the androgen receptor because it is enzymatically converted to the diol. Thus, it is not an effective anabolic. It is somewhat effective as an anti-gyno agent, however, and appears to reduce estrogenic bloating if that problem exists.
Proviron reduces either levels of estrogen or the effect of estrogen. Thus, it is useful for avoiding gynecomastia, although it probably should not be relied upon as the sole drug for that. It is not hepatotoxic. It has the usual side effects of anabolic/androgenic steroids, with the added effect that it is particularly prone to cause erections".
Proviron reduces either levels of estrogen or the effect of estrogen. Thus, it is useful for avoiding gynecomastia, although it probably should not be relied upon as the sole drug for that. It is not hepatotoxic. It has the usual side effects of anabolic/androgenic steroids, with the added effect that it is particularly prone to cause erections".
J
Juice Authority
Guest
Biter said:
You're right. Masteron was discontinued a while back. The Masteron I have on the way is from Supra Labs - a UG Lab.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
jboldman said:
I'm estrogen sensitive (that means I'm gyno prone) and I'm currently on a 1gm of Test and 50mg's of D-bol ED. The only anti-e I'm using is Proviron. No signs of gyno at all. I got gyno last time around while using a low dose of Nolva. Explain that one. I wouldn't dispense ill-advice. I have a basis for that statement both personal and factual. Your statement however it totally off base.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catprov.htm
Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels.
The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.
Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations. Proviron is often used as a last-minute secret by a lot of bodybuilders and both actors and models have used it time and again to deliver top shape day in day out, when needed. Like the other methylated DHT compound, drostanolone, mesterolone is particularly potent in achieving this feat.
Lastly Proviron is used during a cycle of certain hormones such as nandrolone, with a distinct lack of androgenic nature, or perhaps 5-alpha reduced hormones that don't have the same affinities as DHT does. Such compounds, thinking of trenbolone, nandrolone and such in particular, have been known to decrease libido. Limiting the athlete to perform sexually being the logical result. DHT plays a key role in this process and is therefore administered in conjunction with such steroids to ease or relieve this annoying side-effect. Proviron is also commonly prescribed by doctors to people with low levels of testosterone, or patients with chronic impotence. Its not perceived as a powerful anabolic, but it gets the job done equally well if not better than other anabolic steroids making it a favorite in medical practices due to its lower chance of abuse.
Mesterolone is generally well liked nonetheless as it delivers very few side-effects in men. In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women. But because of the high level of deactivation and pre-destination in the system (albumin, SHBG, 3bHSD, aromatase) quite a lot of it, if not all simply never reaches the androgen receptor where it would cause anabolic effects, but also side-effects. So its relatively safe. Doses between 25 and 250 mg per day are used with no adverse effects. 50 mg per day is usually sufficient to be effective in each of the four cases we mentioned up above, so going higher really isn't necessary. Unlike what some suggest or believe, its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid, as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone, leading to all sorts of future complications upon discontinuation. Ranging from loss of libido or erectile dysfunction all the way up to infertility. One would not be aware of such dangers because Proviron fulfills most of the functions of normal levels of testosterone.
JA, why am i way off base. What you have presented us with is someones opinion on what proviron does. To demonstrate to me that i am way off base is easy, simply post a reference to anything in "scientific " literature showing an anti-aromatase effect. Proviron is NOT DHT and does NOT share all of DHT's characteristics. I am perfectly willing to believe that it works for you but just becasue someone repeats something over and over does not make it so. THere is NO evidence in the scientific literature that demonstrates an anti-e effect, i can find NO reference in the scientific literature demonstrating its binding affinity to the aromatase enzyme. I will grant you that it does bind to shbg but it releases more estrogen than testosterone. Simply by taking more test you will reduce the amount of shbg and increase your free test and save money at the same time.
When i took proviron, i did not get gyno either but then again i am not gyno prone. For all the other anti-e's commonly recommended there is a ton of scientific evidence that they actually either block the production of estrogen or bind/block the estrogen receptors. For proviron there is NO evidence except the written opinion of some gurus that never cite sources and some anecdotal evidence. I would feel very uncomfortable advising someone to hang their gyno hat on proviron unless they had a fistfull of nolvadex ready just in case!! At least nolvadex has been clinically shown to reduce or totally eliminate gyno and it is cheaper! So for me it is simple, add a little more test and have nolvadex on hand vs the more expensive proviron that has never been clinically proven to reduce or eliminate estro or gyno.
I find so many guys trying to take so many different drugs, personally the KISS principle rules after many years of trying all of these. Test is the base of every cycle with nolvadex always handy if the need arises.
jb
When i took proviron, i did not get gyno either but then again i am not gyno prone. For all the other anti-e's commonly recommended there is a ton of scientific evidence that they actually either block the production of estrogen or bind/block the estrogen receptors. For proviron there is NO evidence except the written opinion of some gurus that never cite sources and some anecdotal evidence. I would feel very uncomfortable advising someone to hang their gyno hat on proviron unless they had a fistfull of nolvadex ready just in case!! At least nolvadex has been clinically shown to reduce or totally eliminate gyno and it is cheaper! So for me it is simple, add a little more test and have nolvadex on hand vs the more expensive proviron that has never been clinically proven to reduce or eliminate estro or gyno.
I find so many guys trying to take so many different drugs, personally the KISS principle rules after many years of trying all of these. Test is the base of every cycle with nolvadex always handy if the need arises.
jb
Anti-E
If gyno is your only symptom then take it would be best to take about 10-20mg of nolvadex every day. If you are experiencing other symptoms of elevated estrogen then you should go with Arimidex-- 1/2 to 1mg twice weekly. You do not want to completely wipe out your serum estrogen levels.
Vital
If gyno is your only symptom then take it would be best to take about 10-20mg of nolvadex every day. If you are experiencing other symptoms of elevated estrogen then you should go with Arimidex-- 1/2 to 1mg twice weekly. You do not want to completely wipe out your serum estrogen levels.
Vital
J
Juice Authority
Guest
jboldman said:
Good points. I can't find any scientific data to back up my statement other than the excerpt for Big Cat's profile on Proviron and my personal experience. Big Cat recently posted the following in regards to his statements on Proviron:
"there is no proven effect of proviron on estrogen management. There is no evidence it acts as an anti-aromatase or anything. Ok, I won't deny it is of course, time has proven its efficacy. But its certainly a poor choice if estrogen blockage is your primary course of action. Proviron would be a good choice to slightly lower estrogen to within maintainable ranges, but for actually inhibiting aromatization I would think something like arimidex is more suited. "
