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bent over rows...
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Anthrax Invasion
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Why would your back get worked less if you had the biceps being worked more? This is like saying a closegrip bench press won't be as good for your triceps as single-arm dumbbell extensions because the shoulders, lats, and chest assist them in the movement.
The best way to do a row is parallel to the floor, with your elbows coming up along your sides, utilizing an underhand grip. I should say, it's the best if you want maximal lat involvement, as well as giving the biceps the best line of pull. This allows more weight to be used. More weight to be used means more tension on muscle tissue. More tension will lead to more growth.
An overhand grip pulled to the chest (fairly high) will recruit the mid-back more than anything. Biceps get the most poor line of pull.
A neutral grip pulled midway will recruit the mid-back, but to a lesser extent than an overhand grip, as well as the lats, but to a lesser extent than an underhand grip. Biceps get a moderate line of pull.
An underhand grip recruits the lats primarily, also giving the biceps the best line of pull. The midback is worked much less (though still utilized) and the most weight can typically be used this way.
Your call. At the end of the day, it won't make much of a different. Do what is comfortable.
The best way to do a row is parallel to the floor, with your elbows coming up along your sides, utilizing an underhand grip. I should say, it's the best if you want maximal lat involvement, as well as giving the biceps the best line of pull. This allows more weight to be used. More weight to be used means more tension on muscle tissue. More tension will lead to more growth.
An overhand grip pulled to the chest (fairly high) will recruit the mid-back more than anything. Biceps get the most poor line of pull.
A neutral grip pulled midway will recruit the mid-back, but to a lesser extent than an overhand grip, as well as the lats, but to a lesser extent than an underhand grip. Biceps get a moderate line of pull.
An underhand grip recruits the lats primarily, also giving the biceps the best line of pull. The midback is worked much less (though still utilized) and the most weight can typically be used this way.
Your call. At the end of the day, it won't make much of a different. Do what is comfortable.
Hillmachine
New member
My biceps tend to tire a lot quicker when using overhand for some reason. I always go underhand and it also allows me to use a lot more weight
musketeer
New member
Anthrax Invasion said:
Fair points matey, but be careful not to over-complicate the issue. Remeber that the bent row also can be done with different WIDTH grips and can be done with the torso at different ANGLES to to the floor and can be done explosively or slowly...
Read about JS rows on Madcows website for an indepth arguement.
I used to do rows Daz-Yates-style at up to 315lbs for 4-5 reps at best. I now do explosive reps with 200ish with my back fully arched and parallel to the floor. My grip is always overhand because I hold the bar out wide with my index fingers on the outer rings.
If your torso is 45 degrees or no where near parralel the line of pull for the lats is really butchered. People like to use underhand because the bis can better pull the weight inward to make them feel like they are still rowing (which is pulling into yourself). This is why 90 degrees in a line where the weight is pulled into the body by the lats directly against the force of gravity is fundemental. This is pretty much common sense and basic physics although obviously people with fantastic genetics and lots of drugs have built their lats doing thing. A lot of people think that if it worked well enough for Yates who was a massively drugged genetic mutant, we should all do it and have the best success. I'll also add that at that time he was really the only BBer performing any type of heavy barbell row and basically resurected it from the dead in their world.
So, underhand pulling in with the bis gives the illusion that you are still kind of rowing but for vertical pulling you can do a lot better by not crippling yourself with a butchered row and bi involvement. Hell, do clean pulls or power shrugs or something from the hang and really load the bar up. This will probably net you more lat involvement anyway since the increased weight will likely balance it out better. Probably be less likely to tear a bi if you tend to cheat and bodyhump heavy weight in a short range of motion (i.e. what passes for a row in most gyms).
So, underhand pulling in with the bis gives the illusion that you are still kind of rowing but for vertical pulling you can do a lot better by not crippling yourself with a butchered row and bi involvement. Hell, do clean pulls or power shrugs or something from the hang and really load the bar up. This will probably net you more lat involvement anyway since the increased weight will likely balance it out better. Probably be less likely to tear a bi if you tend to cheat and bodyhump heavy weight in a short range of motion (i.e. what passes for a row in most gyms).
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Anthrax Invasion
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Guess everyone missed it when I said that, huh? I don't advocate anything but the torso being parallel to the floor. Changing grip width isn't going to do anything spectacular, besides give you a longer ROM. With an underhand grip and the elbows pulling into the sides, you get the longest possible ROM.
You can try to pull it to different parts of the body, but this becomes awkward. If you row overhand, pulling to the same place the bar would naturally fall with an underhand grip is, no doubt, going to be a bitch. Same as bench pressing. Your grip width will determine whereabouts the bar lands. You can force it higher or lower on your chest, but a closegrip will fall on your upper abdominal. A super-wide grip will fall around the neck/collar bone.
Underhand rowing shouldn't tire your bis quicker. If they are, you're probably rowing wrong. You should focus on squeezing your scapula back together and focusing on using the muscles of the back, letting the arms just hold the weight. They're still ropes, just like in power cleans.
djeclipse
New member
So far I am not relaly up to a weight where the 45lb plates are involved (except for my last set but it would be a PIA to remove all the plates just to put on 45lb plates in their place) so I can't start from the weights on the floor just yet.
But when I do, how long are you supposed to let the weight rest on the floor? 1/2 second, one full second, longer?
But when I do, how long are you supposed to let the weight rest on the floor? 1/2 second, one full second, longer?
You don't need to put them on the floor, it's a great way of doing it, maybe the best way or certainly as good as any other but deal with it when you are able. The bar just needs to deweight and rest on the ground, sort of like a deadlift between reps. Don't overthink it. Don't rush but don't sit around.djeclipse said:
Extra_Strong
Well-known member
Oh... man I am excited having surgery to remove the scar tissure that was built up in my knee. after my acl surgery Jan 15.. I sure hope I am fixed and can get get back to heavy rows... weeeee
Protobuilder
New member
Hmmmm . . . I've been using my EZ-curl bar and just piling 25s on the ends (I'm only doing 165-170ish so far), so the bar doesn't actually touch the ground (I'm 5'11"). I thought that the "pull from the floor" thing was just a way of saying "you should be parallel to the ground," which means for most people, the 45s on a regular bar will wind up touching the ground due to ROM. I didn't know you were supposed to actually deweight as w/ the deadlift . . . I've just been letting my arms hang to full extension and then blasting 'em back up.
Guinness5.0
New member
It ain't a make or break thing. Don't sweat it.Protobuilder said:
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