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bench presses necessary ???
- Thread starter Rella
- Start date
crew9
New member
Rella said:i know probably @ first, but once you get the "foundation" ,is cable flyes ..and machine exerices ok...not just for maintinence , but for growth..
ps..anyone use cybex machines and if so are they worth is ...(can you tell i just bought myself a shiny new gym pass!! oooOOOOoooo.
Ditch the machines and stick with barbell. How many big guys do you see repping out the machines all the time.
KillahBee
New member
all I know is that with my current shoulder injury, flat bench BB is a long gone part of my routine. maybe some day, but for now I stick with incline DB and incline flyes. maybe in a few months I can start DB flat bench. don't really care about not being able to do flat bench either, to me it is more of an ego "how much do you bench" thing.
strongsmartsexy
New member
Heavy flat bench is a mass building excersize. There is nothing like heavy compound excersizes for puttting on mass. If you have a shoulder injury, they are not likely the best for you. I've seen a couple of big guys who do nothing but heavy dumbbell incline work. I'd be surprised if they got that big only doing that though.
I get MUCH more out of dumbbells for chest size myself. I just like being able to squeeze at the top and get a better stretch than is possible with a bar.
strongsmartsexy
New member
BodybuildingUniverse said:I get MUCH more out of dumbbells for chest size myself. I just like being able to squeeze at the top and get a better stretch than is possible with a bar.
Yes, the strech is much better, that I agree. Did you build most of your chest mass with dumbbells, or did you have a good base with barbell and then fill out with dumbbells?
I did start with the basics...barbell bench. My dumbbell preference also has to do with shoulder injuries over the years. Also, when I bench "heavy" sometimes I worry about getting the weight up rather than focusing on connecting with the muscle.
strongsmartsexy
New member
BodybuildingUniverse said:I did start with the basics...barbell bench. My dumbbell preference also has to do with shoulder injuries over the years. Also, when I bench "heavy" sometimes I worry about getting the weight up rather than focusing on connecting with the muscle.
I absolutely understand. I wanted to clarify for any beginning builders the differences. I would hate for them to start with dumbbells as a means of gaining mass before they've learned how to build with basic compound movements.
point made.
D
Debaser
Guest
If your goal is simply mass, bench presses aren't "necessary." Dips or hammer machine presses would work just fine.
Killahbee what's so bad about your shoulder? Most soft-tissue injuries are fixable (and many in a very short period of time), why do you make it sound like it's permanent?
Killahbee what's so bad about your shoulder? Most soft-tissue injuries are fixable (and many in a very short period of time), why do you make it sound like it's permanent?
bignate73
New member
thank you debaser. good point!
rotator work should be as integral as warming up, stretching...or in some of you guys' cases..posing. its important preventative maintenance. for anyone who says "flat bench messes me up", i say check your form. i would bet you are a "elbows flaring" bencher. i would also say you probably dont do any external rotation work. if you want to protect your shoulders, tuck your elbows a bit. you'll see how much your range of motion increases. generally most who flare their elbows feel tremendous stretch on their anterior deltoids and generally dont even touch their chest, just do the most range of motion they can. that...is wrong. set up an empty bar and bench your normal way, if you cant get to your chest, tuck your elbows a bit, and bring the bar a bit lower on your chest and watch how that stress on the shoulders disappears.
rotator work should be as integral as warming up, stretching...or in some of you guys' cases..posing. its important preventative maintenance. for anyone who says "flat bench messes me up", i say check your form. i would bet you are a "elbows flaring" bencher. i would also say you probably dont do any external rotation work. if you want to protect your shoulders, tuck your elbows a bit. you'll see how much your range of motion increases. generally most who flare their elbows feel tremendous stretch on their anterior deltoids and generally dont even touch their chest, just do the most range of motion they can. that...is wrong. set up an empty bar and bench your normal way, if you cant get to your chest, tuck your elbows a bit, and bring the bar a bit lower on your chest and watch how that stress on the shoulders disappears.
callthedoctor
New member
Good Point Big Nate....my reply was going to be exactly what you said....
I was benching with elbows out, going heavier and heavier....finally got a pretty bad shoulder strain (took about a year to heal)....my PT along with numerous internet bench articles and elite posts explained how important benching with elbows in is...makes TOTAL sense.....incorporating your tris more and shoulders less...
Now I'm benching heavier with zero shoulder pain....
I was benching with elbows out, going heavier and heavier....finally got a pretty bad shoulder strain (took about a year to heal)....my PT along with numerous internet bench articles and elite posts explained how important benching with elbows in is...makes TOTAL sense.....incorporating your tris more and shoulders less...
Now I'm benching heavier with zero shoulder pain....
Ive gained almost all, if not all, of my chest mass from barbell presses. Incline and flat. Dumbells seem great too. Ive just never felt them the way I feel barbells. Id go with dumbells or barbells anyday before machines. Now with this injury, I may still be doing some machine work, but it hasnt been optimal for me at all. Ive lost size in my chest.As you will be able to see when I post up new pics in april. haha
KillahBee
New member
Debaser said:
I find out the results of my MRI today, but this injury has not improved for close to 10 months. I make it sound bad because not being able to lift heavy for that long when you are completely mentally ready is very depressing. Conventional PT didn't work, time off didn't work, and a somewhat extreme strengthening routine didn't work. We'll see what the doc says today. I switched to a sports specialist and am going to inquire about A.R.T. as I have heard very good things about it. I know it's not permanent, but it has been extremely frustrating, as I am sure many here have dealt with before.
KillahBee said:
Killah, is it a rotator cuff injury? I'm struggling with one too. cant go over 1 plate in both inclines and militaries. feels light but it just hurts too much. Benching is OK, the lower angles dont seem to irritate it. sucks big time.
KillahBee
New member
BodybuildingUniverse said:Killah, is it a rotator cuff injury? I'm struggling with one too. cant go over 1 plate in both inclines and militaries. feels light but it just hurts too much. Benching is OK, the lower angles dont seem to irritate it. sucks big time.
yes it is. planning on starting an aggressive and rigorous rot cuff strengthening program next week. should be painful but necessary. I am staying away from mil. presses and flat bench for at least a month. gonna try incl DB and see how that goes. it's a shitty injury.
bignate73
New member
on militaries and incline, do you guys flare your elbows there too? try keeping them tucked and see how it goes. for my OHP, i go just outside the smooth and get my elbows right under my wrists, seems to be very easy on the shoulders. i have a few guys with rot. cuff injuries who can only press overhead if they tuck the elbows in front of them. that tells me something about elbow flare and its correlation to shoulder injury.
callthedoctor
New member
I do militaries behind the neck....elbows flared out towards the plates....
Can't imagine biomechanically doing them any other way....
??
Can't imagine biomechanically doing them any other way....
??
Its real easy to keep your elbows in - more in front of you and tighter to your sides - while pressing. Just have to get used to it. For me it involves the tris a bit more too but it definitely is more comfortable on the shoulders
Brett44444444
New member
you can do flys but not flat bench? That seems awkward with a shoulder injury... I'd suggest doing more rotator cuff work and sticking with dumbells for a while. Flat press is key, though I guess you could hit the same parts of the muscle with incline/decline work...
Of course you don't have to do barbell stuff.
Guys, guys... barbells aren't MAGIC. They're just a convenient way of putting weight on muscle tissue, which is what really causes growth. That weight doesn't have to come from barbells. It can come from dumbbells, or machines, or even your obese grandma if you figure out a way to balance her on your hands.
Yes compound movements are good, and barbell freeweight stuff may provide some slight balancing ability over machines, but from a sheer growth standpoint I don't think it matters. It may even be helpful if your tris tend to overpower your chest in a BB press.
Guys, guys... barbells aren't MAGIC. They're just a convenient way of putting weight on muscle tissue, which is what really causes growth. That weight doesn't have to come from barbells. It can come from dumbbells, or machines, or even your obese grandma if you figure out a way to balance her on your hands.
Yes compound movements are good, and barbell freeweight stuff may provide some slight balancing ability over machines, but from a sheer growth standpoint I don't think it matters. It may even be helpful if your tris tend to overpower your chest in a BB press.
casualbb said:
Convenient? Weird way of putting it. I dont think you'll see anyone with DENSE MUSCLE that got that way from machines or their fat grandma. Stick your machines and remain casual.
I totally agree with bignate on form, I used to flare the elbows and benching used to hurt my shoulders bad. Once I learned to do it with shoulders in, I was able to go much heavier without pain. Funny thing is I have really bad rotator cuffs, but flat bench with good form doesnt hurt them.
I;ve tried all the different approaches, and for me nothing builds my chest like heavy bench. Its also a question of numbers, I've been up to 365lbs for 5 reps on bench, but my gym only goes up to 140's for dumbells, which is a total of 280lbs. So it stands to reason that I would grow more from bench. I do prefer dumbells for incline though as I can use any bench I want and create the right incline 30-40 degrees; where as the ones for incline barbell tend to be much steeper, bringing more delts and less chest into play
I;ve tried all the different approaches, and for me nothing builds my chest like heavy bench. Its also a question of numbers, I've been up to 365lbs for 5 reps on bench, but my gym only goes up to 140's for dumbells, which is a total of 280lbs. So it stands to reason that I would grow more from bench. I do prefer dumbells for incline though as I can use any bench I want and create the right incline 30-40 degrees; where as the ones for incline barbell tend to be much steeper, bringing more delts and less chest into play
BodybuildingUniverse said:Convenient? Weird way of putting it. I dont think you'll see anyone with DENSE MUSCLE that got that way from machines or their fat grandma. Stick your machines and remain casual.
So now barbells build "Dense muscle" and other things build... not dense muscle? Would you mind explaining that.
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