battling soar joints

[hanibal]

my joints never hurt until this last year. it all began when i ALL AT SAME TIME:
1. did letro for first time over summer w/ prop, tren, proviron, t3, clen, trex and win. was also first real win cycle i had done (it also quickly became my new favorite AS unfortunately).
2. after about 2 months of letro, stopped and switched to AIFM. cycle ended in aug. still on now at only 1 squirt on mon, wed and fri. i started this about 1 month ago. until then, i continued w/ 1 squirt ED like i had been in PCT.
3. became more involved w/ kickboxing, alittle jui jitsu, and alot more cardio.
my joints which hurt are my left AC joint on shoulder (kinda where trap and shoulder tie in at that pointy bone on top), this is from a direct injury though from jui jitsu and boxing, elbows. in past month or so, my left hip and my lower back are soar, more upon waking up. i feel like an old fuck getting out of bed. granted i'm 32, been lifting 16 years, involved w/ sports from little kid.
i cannot help but wonder if the combination of letro into AIFM w/ win and training, fucked up/dried up my joints. i never felt like this while i was on all that shit at almost same time though. just recently started really bothering me in last 3 months or so. i recently started taking MSM gluc and chon. i know it takes at least a month to take effect but not sure if that will even help. i'm planning on a cycle coming up soon w/ EQ, maybe alittle test, win at last 6-8 weeks and proviron entire time. not sure about the test since i am gyno prone and will need at least AIFM if not letro. i kinda want to stop AIFM soon and start cycle and use proviron(if i don't use test). any thoughts...anyone else feel like this? i was even considering alittle deca, BUT then i will need test, and then i will need a stronger anti e since i am gyno prone.... fucked either way. anything else for joints besides what i'm taking now?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

are you warming up thoroughly (10-20min light cardio, light stretching static and ballastic, as well as light sets for bodypart you plan to train)?

hip and back soreness are likely related to jujitsu, though may also be your change in bodymass/composition necessitates a different sleeping position or mattress firmness.

 

[jitc476]

deca deposits water in joints and it usally helps a ton with joint pain

 

[macrophage69alpha]

its possible that the previous letro use was part of the cascade that led to current issues, its also possible that AIFM may be suppressing E enough to not allow for more fluid joints (since they are already a bit compromised that little difference may be significant)

though to a great extent its probably age, the best action for which is better warm ups and lesser engagement in activities/exercises that irritate your joints (until you see improvement)

 

[njmuscleguy]

Definitely agree with macro, you should do light exercise stretches several times a day to keep joints and muscles limber and make them less prone to further injury. Icing several times a day helps keep inflammation down... keep on taking the MSM, glucosamine, and chondroitin, however, it will take several months or longer before you start getting any considerable effect... at any rate, it's a good preventative measure... get plenty of EFA's as well, they help the joints... I also throw in a packet of gelatin into every shake... not sure how effective it is but people swear by it, so I figured it couldn't hurt... I've been doing all this for a year now and my shoulders and knees are in better shape.... I also see a chiropractor regularly... that's made a huge difference in preventing pain and keeping my back/neck/shoulders limber

imo, I'd stay away from letro and winny in the future...both are known to kill the joints... be careful with tren also.... there are some studies out there that suggest a very low dosage of both deca and test will not only cause minimal side effects, but are therapeutic for the joints (cartilidge repair, etc.)

 

[hanibal]

i do stretch like crazy, before, during and after lifting/training. i DO need a new mattress. i just am having a hard time biting the bullet on a good $2000 mattress, but i will get 1 soon. i'm 99% sure i'm done w/ tren for good, letro will only be used in future if i have gyno like symptoms, i fucking loved what winny did for me last time, but will only do once again and not over 50 ED...i have been taking EFA's and tons of vitamins and supplements for years. i would try alittle deca and test BUT then i will probably need letro or more AIFM and am also afraid of the infamous deca dick since i had it when i was 20. that was on test too. i haven't done kickboxing or jui jitsu in just over a month, since i hurt AC joint. i don't plan on going back to jui jitsu again, just kickboxing when shoulder feels better. i'm going to an orthopedic surgeon next week to have him look at it and also discuss my joint problems.

 

[hanibal]

is there another anti e besides letro or AIFM i can use w/ low dose test/deca? i guess i would use proviron w/ them but i don't know if that would do it...i've never used anything other than nolva, arimadex twice, letro and proviron.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

do you do light cardio before stretching/lifting? this will make a bigger difference.

 

[needtogetaas]

this site list letro as a med that causes joint pain.http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/medical/letrozole.htm
but any way


The cartilage stays slippery and smooth thanks to a thick fluid - called synovial fluid produced by a membrane that surrounds the joint.stretching doing rotations and warming up with lighter weights releases this synovial fluid into the joints more before
a work out so warming up will help but if you having a problem from meds you are taking or other reasons its still going to hurt.

Joint pain is a common symptom with many possible causes.

There are many possible causes of joint pain. The causes can be divided into categories:

* wear-and-tear, such as from overuse, injury, or osteoarthritis. Osteoarthritis is the most common form of arthritis, or joint inflammation,
* conditions that affect metabolism, such as gout and pseudogout. These conditions result from materials being deposited into the joints,
* infections of the joint, sometimes called septic arthritis.
* autoimmune disorders, in which a person's body produces antibodies against its own tissues. These disorders include rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus erythematosus.

some times just stopping a med you are taking can help but here are some other fun facts.
The use of herbs is a time-honored approach to strengthening the body and treating disease. The following have been used traditionally to treat joint pains:

shallaki
In clinical trials, promising results were observed in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, chronic colitis, Crohn's disease. Researchers found that standardized Boswellia extract significantly reduced swelling and pain and usually reduced morning stiffness for people with rheumatoid arthritis. Also known as boswella, this herb is native to India, used for centuries by Ayurvedic physicians in arthritis herbal remedies. It has well proven anti-inflammatory and pain-relieving effects through the inhibition of inflammatory-causing substances, speeding up of cartilage formation, and improved blood supply to the joints

epsom salt
Magnesium has both anti-inflammatory and anti- arthritic properties and it can be absorbed through the skin. Magnesium is one of the most important of the essential minerals in the body, and it is commonly deficient in the American diet. A New England remedy for arthritis is a hot bath of Epsom salts. The heat of the bath can increase circulation and reduce the swelling of arthritis.
ginger root
Research suggests ginger root inhibits production of prostaglandins and leukotrienes, which are involved in pain and inflammation. In an uncontrolled 1992 Danish study, 56 patients who had either RA, OA or muscular discomfort took powdered ginger. All of those with musculoskeletal pain and three-fourths of those with OA or RA reported varying degrees of pain relief and no side effects, even among those who took the ginger for more than two years.

Boswellia serrata is a tree found in northern India. Its resin, known simply as boswellia, is used for a variety of joint problems.major uses

Anti-inflammatory
Arthritis
Other joint problems
Dosage Recommendations

Typical dose 450mg

general description

Collagen is a structural protein that is found in connective tissues in the body, such as cartilage, bone, tendons and ligaments, and skin.
active ingredients

A structural protein that is found in connective tissues in the body.
where is it found

Collagen is available primarily as a nutritional supplement.
major uses

Maintenance of connective tissue
Protection from degenerative bone disease
Protection from sports joint injury
Dosage Recommendations

Typical dose 5,000-10,000mg (5-10 grams)
White Willow (Salix alba) is a tree native to Europe and western Asia. Its bark contains salicin, a natural anti-inflammatory, which is the precursor to acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin). CustomCapsule’s white willow bark is standardized to 15% salicin.
active ingredients

Salicin (15%)
where is it found

Europe and western Asia.
major uses

Pain relief
Fever reducer
Anti-inflammatory
Arthritis
Dosage Recommendations

Typical dose 400-800mg standardized white willow (60-120mg salicin)

White Willow (Salix alba) is a tree native to Europe and western Asia. Its bark contains salicin, a natural anti-inflammatory, which is the precursor to acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin). CustomCapsule’s white willow bark is standardized to 15% salicin.
active ingredients

Salicin (15%)
where is it found

Europe and western Asia.
major uses

Pain relief
Fever reducer
Anti-inflammatory
Arthritis
Dosage Recommendations

Typical dose 400-800mg standardized white willow (60-120mg salicin)

Scientists have found that resveratrol, a powerful antioxidant found in certain types of grape, appears to halt the damage done to cartilage - the gristle-like substance that covers the ends of bones in a joint - and speed up recovery.
and the list gos on and one but you get the Idea.if you or any one is entrusted in taking care of joint pain or preventing joint pain you can pm me and I will try to help.
also take a look at this site were they have all the herbuls listed above and a hole lot more along with descriptions and medical research can always be found to back them up.
keep in mind the med pushers and the docters hate this stuff cuz its helping people fix there problems rather then spend millions on bullshit.kthxby

http://www.customcapsule.com/index.html

 

[njmuscleguy]

is there another anti e besides letro or AIFM i can use w/ low dose test/deca? i guess i would use proviron w/ them but i don't know if that would do it...i've never used anything other than nolva, arimadex twice, letro and proviron.

First and foremost, get the new mattress!!! It's SO worth it! It'll make a huge difference in how you feel and it's a long-term investment. Think about how much money you've spent on useless supplements, etc. Second, the dosages for deca and test I mentioned are very low, 200mg/wk or less... enough to give minimal gains but more importantly, to help with your joint issues. You probably won't need a AI as strong as Letro for such low dosages, unless you are that prone to gyno. Either way, Aromasin is the best choice IMO. Start off with a low dosage (12.5mg ED), especially if you're using proviron as well.

 

[hanibal]

thanks for the help guys. i know the mattress is very important. i think i will blow a portion of my tax return on a new 1...i've decided. as far as the test/deca, i have to think about it, but maybe i'll front load my 16 wk EQ/proviron cycle w/ win last 6 weeks, w/ just 6 weeks of alittle test/deca and either aromasin or AIFM before the 16 wk'er begins. as far as doing light cardio before training, not usually. i will though starting tonight.

 

[needtogetaas]

lot of joint pain going around ef