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Bad idea to attempt hardcore dieting/cutting without AAS?

Nighthawkk

New member
Seems to me that most of us absolutely fear losing muscle in attempts to start cutting up for the summer season. Does anyone here get right into hardcore dieting and cardio without using the usual cutting drugs at the same time (i.e. winny, prop, fina, eq, etc...) ? I will be coming off a moderately dosed test/deca/enanth bulker, finishing winny (and possibly tren), but do want to allow myself to have decent off-time...though during that time I want to definitely drop some of the bodyfat I've picked up this past winter. Do any of you do this? What do you use to avoid muscle loss if not using steroids? I was thinking maybe just a strict CKD diet for a few months with a rotation of T-rex/Clen would be suitable, though I'm still petrified of losing my hard earned muscle. Advice/comments/opinions appreciated
 
Right after a heavier cycle I would definately not do this. For one you will be shut down and will lose more muscle since you will not be eating as much and trying to lose bodyfat. The goal post cycle is to try to maintain as much muscle as possible. Without sufficient calories not only will your body have a hard time getting back to normal but a hard time holding on to the muscle you obtained from the cycle. I did this a while back actually and got leaner yeah but I was already pretty lean when I was on cycle. I did this for only 2 weeks as my sex drive was shut down completely and I also felt like shit. I do however diet hardcore without anabolics as I did for the most part this year and currently starting my last phase of my dieting without anabolic assistance. Halfway into my diet though I will most likely be introducing some mild compounds in there but nothing crazy. Again I wouldn't do it though post cycle, especially coming off a cycle like that.
 
Mike P.T. said:
Right after a heavier cycle I would definately not do this. For one you will be shut down and will lose more muscle since you will not be eating as much and trying to lose bodyfat. The goal post cycle is to try to maintain as much muscle as possible. Without sufficient calories not only will your body have a hard time getting back to normal but a hard time holding on to the muscle you obtained from the cycle. I did this a while back actually and got leaner yeah but I was already pretty lean when I was on cycle. I did this for only 2 weeks as my sex drive was shut down completely and I also felt like shit. I do however diet hardcore without anabolics as I did for the most part this year and currently starting my last phase of my dieting without anabolic assistance. Halfway into my diet though I will most likely be introducing some mild compounds in there but nothing crazy. Again I wouldn't do it though post cycle, especially coming off a cycle like that.

What would you suggest then? Wait until I am able to go back on in a few months and do a mild anabolic cycle, and then try to drop the bf? Or should I just wait a while, keep cals high during PCT, and then later try to ease into a cutting diet? I was planning on an EQ/Var/Prop cycle in the future, but the problem is I will want to wait AT LEAST 12 weeks before doing so (b/c I do the "time on=time off" routine). That's a little too long for me to wait until trying to drop some of the nasty bf that is accumulating, so what can I do in the meantime?
 
Nighthawkk said:
What would you suggest then? Wait until I am able to go back on in a few months and do a mild anabolic cycle, and then try to drop the bf? Or should I just wait a while, keep cals high during PCT, and then later try to ease into a cutting diet? I was planning on an EQ/Var/Prop cycle in the future, but the problem is I will want to wait AT LEAST 12 weeks before doing so (b/c I do the "time on=time off" routine). That's a little too long for me to wait until trying to drop some of the nasty bf that is accumulating, so what can I do in the meantime?

You can use the thermogenic mix that you have listed although for some in a way it might delay the overall recovery process post cycle. Most of the time it's not a problem though and I'm sure enough will tell you thermogenics are good to use post cycle such as clen but I'm pretty sure I read a study that stated it's not the best for test levels. Either way do that as well as eat a well balanced diet but not one that is really low in calories as well. Eating cleaner and eating enough will help maintain the muscle and keep fat retension at bay while the fat burners will help to shed off some fat or keep up some fat that may accumulate in your heightenede estrogenic and lower testosterone state.
 
Been there done that. If you are going hardcore on the diet, do yourself (or your muscles) a favor and get on a mild dose of an anabolic only to spare muscle. Last cutter for me was just 250mg of test enathate a week. That was enough to preserve most muscle mass. maybe even adding like 20mg of var would make things better. When I did try to cut once following a bulker (that was a long time ago) I lost shit load of muscles in the speed of light. You work so hard for earning these muscles but loosing them can be quite fast.
 
junk said:
Been there done that. If you are going hardcore on the diet, do yourself (or your muscles) a favor and get on a mild dose of an anabolic only to spare muscle. Last cutter for me was just 250mg of test enathate a week. That was enough to preserve most muscle mass. maybe even adding like 20mg of var would make things better. When I did try to cut once following a bulker (that was a long time ago) I lost shit load of muscles in the speed of light. You work so hard for earning these muscles but loosing them can be quite fast.

Hmm...in that case I will wait for my off-time to finish and then do some mild cycle and diet hardcore. Would something simple like EQ/Prop/Var be suitable?
 
Nighthawkk said:
Hmm...in that case I will wait for my off-time to finish and then do some mild cycle and diet hardcore. Would something simple like EQ/Prop/Var be suitable?

EQ,Primo,Var,Test.
 
Why does your diet have to be hardcore? You should be able to lose 1 lb a week without AAS.
 
Dial_tone said:
Why does your diet have to be hardcore? You should be able to lose 1 lb a week without AAS.

Well I don't want to lose any muscle. Also, when I say "hardcore" diet, I just mean a strict dietary intake, monitoring cals and carbs. Right now I'm just eating everything in sight.
 
junk said:
Been there done that. If you are going hardcore on the diet, do yourself (or your muscles) a favor and get on a mild dose of an anabolic only to spare muscle. Last cutter for me was just 250mg of test enathate a week. That was enough to preserve most muscle mass. maybe even adding like 20mg of var would make things better. When I did try to cut once following a bulker (that was a long time ago) I lost shit load of muscles in the speed of light. You work so hard for earning these muscles but loosing them can be quite fast.

Hmm... well if I'm going to use AAS for sure when cutting, do I really need to wait another 10 weeks after I finish my current bulker? (I try to do time on=time off)
 
have you ever considered the dbol bridge??? i'll find Fonz dbol bridge theory and post it up. cutting with 10mg of dbol in the morning aint to bad of an option IMO.
 
Oh yea...and if I were to decide to try to cut-up a bit in between cycles, would T-rex/Clen be anti-catabolic to the point where I wouldn't have to worry about losing too much muscle? (my protein intake would still remain at 1.5-2g per lb of bodyweight)
 
I've been reading some of the posts regarding this
bridge and some of them are truly from left-field.
First of, this is a BRIDGE. OK? a B-R-I-D-G-E.

Your LH function and Test levels are supposed
to RECOVER.

Ok, now having said that.
Here's the pharmo-kinetics behind Methandrostenelone,
brand name Dianabol.

10mg taken at once will increase your average testosterone level by 5 times and decrease your endogeneous cosrtisone
by 50-70%.

The reason why dianabol is a good choice for a bridge is that
its VERY anti-catabolic. It also dopaminergic. Giving you the
benefits of increased CNS strength modulation by
its androgenic mode of action.
Androgens, in case you don't know, increase neuro-muscular
function, thus STRENGTH.

OK. Now, lets delve into the metabolic chemistry behind
dianabol's choice as a bridging agent.

When are testosterone levels highest?

Answer: In the AM, thats when.

Your body releases a tesosterone spike in the morning.
This is when tesosterone levels are highest.

When are Insulin levels lowest?

Answer: In the AM thats when.

Low insulin levels=increased protein used as fuel.
(Also fat, but protein is also being converted
to glucose via glucogenesis)

OK, here is where dball's short half-life works for us
(Its 3.2-4.5 hrs btw)

Lets take Subject X.

He's in bridging mode.
He has just woken up.
The body is about to release tesosterone, thus
creating a spike.
His insulin levels are low.
His LH and test levels are very low.



He pops 10mgs of dianabol.

Here is where things get interesting.

The 10mgs of dianabol will cause a testosterone
spike WHICH COINCIDES WITH the testosterone
released ENDOGENEOUSLY in the AM by the testes.

The body will be partially fooled.
It will not entirely detect the increased levels of testosterone
(above the normal test sipke), thus LH function WILL
REMAIN only partially(Very little actually) suppressed.

In other words, he is "piggy-backing" an extra dose of testosterone on top of the endogeneously reduced one,
thus creating an "inflated" test spike.

Henceforth, LH levels WILL BE ALLOWED TO SLOWLY
RECOVER over time.
Also, dballs anti-catabolic effect will help curb protein-loss
in the morning from low insulogenic levels.

HOWEVER, and here is where almost all of you go wrong.

You CANNOT GO PAST 10mg of dianabol in the AM
for this bridge to work!!!!

Why? Because of the blood levels of dianabol you would generate.

10mg in the AM will be broken down to 5mg in about 4 hrs
(Probably less)

5mg of dianabol, is not enough to cause another rise
in testosterone levels after the precceeding one. Thus,
LH function is allowed to up-regulate.

Anything more(Say 20mgs), will cause a SEDCONDARY
testosterone spike which WILL inhibit LH function further,
thus not allowing LH function to recover.

Oh yeah...100mgs? ROTLMFAO!! Fat chance.

The difference between 20mgs and 10mgs means the difference
between allowing LH to recover slowly and not allowing it to.

So, here's the scenario summed up:

Beginning: LOW LH and test.

Adding the 10mgs dball.

LH is allowed to SLOWLY RECOVER over time as
testosterone levels are kept at a level which
will not cause muscle-loss. Also, dball's anti-catabolic effects
will reduce protein degradation.(Via cortisone
reduction)

This is what i call a double positive. You have managed to
INCREASE anabolism(Test levels) and DECREASE
catabolism(cortisone), during a bridge to boot!!

The bridge should last 8 weeks, NO LESS.
I also have to say, that it WILL NOT restore
complete LH function. It'll get you 80-90%
of the way there but the only way you're going
to get your full LH function back is if you go OFF
completely.
Anavar WILL NOT restore LH completely either btw.
(In case anybody is wondering.)
The difference is that with anavar you can take it
throughout the day and with dball it HAS TO BE
once in the AM.

Hope that clears the air.
 
Interesting post, though I don't think I would consider bridging because that would tempt me to almost never come off, and I think it is very important that I do when I'm finished with this cycle
 
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