Avoid training to failure???

[Intenceman]

exactly - read my original reply, I said for BB'ing it doesn't matter either way, but if your after improved performance and functional strength gains, going to failure is not required

I understand your point, all I was saying is that for everyone , that simply isn't true- for me, I need to go beyond failure to improve significantly at this point going to subfailure results in zero progress for me at this point in the game- thats' all I said.
But what performance? I'm not a ball player or something is that what he is talking about? I do some boxing and intense training sure has helped THAT. My right jab can knock the heavy bag backwards hard-which I HAVE to attribute to increased neorological eficiency and explosivenss. For some people , what he is saying might be true- it's just not true for everyone.

 

[coolcolj]

Well performance as in jumping, sprinting, sports motion etc
Its well known that to be fast you have to train fast.
The thing is athletes have to do a lot of other stuff along with their weight training, going to failure would be pretty much toast their CNS. They don't have the luxury of waiting a few days before they have to perform.

BTW the author of that Men's Health article Charles Stahley knows what he is on about, he is quite a well known and respected trainer. But his article may have been watered down to suit the readership

 

[Longhorn85]

BTW the author of that Men's Health article Charles Stahley knows what he is on about, he is quite a well known and respected trainer. But his article may have been watered down to suit the readership

Took out some of the big words and added some cool pictures. Hey, it works for me, I'm a busy man and don't want heavy reading while I'm on the john.

 

[Intenceman]

That's where the confusion came in, I thought we were talking in a bodybuilding context, since it's a bodybuilding board, I thought. I'm not an athelete, I'm 42- long past needing any of that- I don't care how high I can jump, so I'm only interested in strength and muscle and for that I need to train past failure......but for competitive athletes I can see that.

 

[Longhorn85]

That's where the confusion came in, I thought we were talking in a bodybuilding context, since it's a bodybuilding board, I thought. I'm not an athelete, I'm 42- long past needing any of that- I don't care how high I can jump, so I'm only interested in strength and muscle and for that I need to train past failure......but for competitive athletes I can see that.

Well, it's called "Elite Fitness" so to me that addresses more than just bodybuilding. I am your age bro, and at 41 I am still performing, in 10Ks, Boxing, Army PT tests, City League Basketball, and just playing sports with my kids. Competition seems to bring out the best when it comes to fitness.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

I watched Dorian Yates training video "Blood and Guts" last week, and there's a guy who goes to failure. Most people who think they do have no idea.

The reason strength athletes don't train to failure is it causes Golgi tendon organ inhibition. The excitation threshold (the signal sent to your brain to stop your muscle from over-exerting itself and tearing off the bone) is actually lowered by training to failure. ie You are making yourself, from a neuro-muscular viewpoint, less efficient. That's where the phrase "Failure breeds failure" comes from.

In bodybuilding, where people try and promote sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and scar-tissue build up and not strength, it has a place, but the metabolic demands of recovery are not worth it compared to other methods, especially for the chemically unfortified.

I tried some Mike Mentzer routines for a while and gained some size but no strength and ended up overtrained and detrained at the same time.

BTW, we are not Bodybuilding fascists on this board. Some of the best contributors are not bodybuilders at all.

 

[Edu]

mentzer's routine is the best to gain masss and strengh in the same time, no doubt about it.

If you not go to failure, you will get strong but you won´t get big.

 

[Thaibox]

mentzer's routine is the best to gain masss and strengh in the same time, no doubt about it.

If you not go to failure, you will get strong but you won´t get big.

Okay tell that to all the strength athletes on this board that are making progress in both size and strength while not training to failure.

 

[Edu]

They gain mass not going to failure, but if they go to failure
They will gain more mass. Training like mentzer of couser.