ATG squat = bad?

[anthrax]

I have been doing real deep squats - both front and back squats - for years (with the hams touching or almost touching the calves) and struggled with knee issues for even longer


I've just read that "there's some evidence that squatting below parallel (what many like to describe as ATG or "ass to grass") could be harmful to the collateral ligaments or to the posterior horn of the meniscus."

any info on that?
Should I stop just below parallel?

 

[SgtSlaughter]

I think old olympic athletes are doing "ok" ... haven't heard of them having severe issues later on in life with squating 5x a week ATG.

Though their form is most likely far superior to most while having direct coaching and whutnot.

 

[Czar87]

Box squats help with knee issue, they take the strain away from your knees.

Maybe a form issue or you may have chronic pain in there ?

 

[TomoUK]

I have been doing real deep squats - both front and back squats - for years (with the hams touching or almost touching the calves) and struggled with knee issues for even longer


I've just read that "there's some evidence that squatting below parallel (what many like to describe as ATG or "ass to grass") could be harmful to the collateral ligaments or to the posterior horn of the meniscus."

any info on that?
Should I stop just below parallel?

it maybe an easily solved form issue, could u video yourself squatting and post it?, i wouldn't stop just below parallel because .....

'The knee has four main protective ligaments that keep the femur from displacing on the tibia (ACL, PCL, MCL, LCL). These four ligaments are most effective at their protection during full extension and full flexion. Full extension would be when you are standing; full flexion would be when there is no daylight between your hamstring and your calf. When the knee is at 90 degrees of flexion (the halfway point), these four ligaments are almost completely lax and cannot exert much if any of a protective force at the knee' (Zatsiorsky V. Kinematics of human motion. 1998)

 

[Protobuilder]

If you listened to all the voices out there, you'd conclude you can't squat b/c "squatting past parallel is bad for your knees" and "half squatting is bad for you knees" too. Fuck. LoL From what I understand, a properly performed full squat shouldn't be harmful for the knees. You strengthen the muscles, tendons, and ligaments supporting the joint throughout a full range of motion. Same could be said for all exercises, IMO. If your hams press into your calves heavily though, you could have some issues. One "tip" to preserve your knees is to consciously try to push your knees out (or "spread the floor"). This activates the glutes heavily, allowing them to take most of the load in teh bottom position rather than sitting it all on your knees.

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/squat.html

 

[NJL52]

I don't like the term ATG because you can go past a safe/deep squat, but it isn't good for your knees. There is a point where squatting pulls with the hammie and thigh an equal amount on the knee that safely protects the knee, but you can go deeper than that.

Another problem is with bowing knees in/out. That lateral shear causes some damage that ceases as soon as you start squatting right(in my case.)

 

[anthrax]

it maybe an easily solved form issue, could u video yourself squatting and post it?, i wouldn't stop just below parallel because .....

'The knee has four main protective ligaments that keep the femur from displacing on the tibia (ACL, PCL, MCL, LCL). These four ligaments are most effective at their protection during full extension and full flexion. Full extension would be when you are standing; full flexion would be when there is no daylight between your hamstring and your calf. When the knee is at 90 degrees of flexion (the halfway point), these four ligaments are almost completely lax and cannot exert much if any of a protective force at the knee' (Zatsiorsky V. Kinematics of human motion. 1998)

I don't have any video, unfortunately

Good stuff from Zatsiorsky
If he said so it must be true

 

[coolcolj]

once again I wheel out the article.....
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=E0C114A139BF928FBEAA6B4850F1E22F.hydra?id=1127149


there is more to knee issues than just how deep you squat...
flexibility and weak hammies are probbaly the cuase of most people's issues

if you squat a lot, stretch everything in the hipos and calves, make sure you beat the hell out of your hammies twice as much, and do single leg work to keep the hips firing properly

 

[Lone Trooper]

once again I wheel out the article.....
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=E0C114A139BF928FBEAA6B4850F1E22F.hydra?id=1127149


there is more to knee issues than just how deep you squat...
flexibility and weak hammies are probbaly the cuase of most people's issues

if you squat a lot, stretch everything in the hipos and calves, make sure you beat the hell out of your hammies twice as much, and do single leg work to keep the hips firing properly

Single leg work? What's the reason for this? Hips can fire properly without unilateral training, no?

 

[coolcolj]

read the article

 

[Lone Trooper]

"Suddenly, Mike's article became a whole lot more interesting."

Hah, yes it did.

But the arguements for the necessity of single-leg work at weak, if you ask me.

 

[coolcolj]

maybe if you did them your knees might feel better.....along with all the otehr stuff

plus it's more athletic and better for hip mobility!

 

[Lone Trooper]

maybe if you did them your knees might feel better.....along with all the otehr stuff

plus it's more athletic and better for hip mobility!

I have no knee problems or pain as it is.

I tend to do some unilateral stuff anyway, but not for his reasons.

 

[coolcolj]

single leg crap

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1406720

 

[gettnlarge01]

I use squats as part of my rehab after knee surgery[severe arthritis] with great results.

 

[petpre61]

I use squats as part of my rehab after knee surgery[severe arthritis] with great results.

how deep do you go?

 

[gettnlarge01]

how deep do you go?

Hams to calves.The only way I can go ATG is to fall backwards while squatting[my legs are to big for my ass to reach the floor]