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Arginine - Base or HCL?
- Thread starter beefybull
- Start date
Mr_Mercaptan
New member
Here goes
Amino acids are nitrogen containing compounds. Just like many other compounds these are amines.
To make it a little simple take ammonia. Contrary to what most people this ammonia is a gas and has the formula NH3.
NH3 is the freebase form. Amines have basic properties (meaning they can react with acids to form salts). This is due to the nitrogen in the amine in question. (im not goign to het into the details or nitrogen basicity unless you really want me to)
Lets keep it simple........
Now if we where to take the ammonia and dissolve it in water,
then add HCl (hydrochloric acid) we would for a salt.
Base (amine) + Acid (HCl) = ammonium chloride NH4Cl
This is the HCl salt of ammonia.
The same scenario happens with arginine
C6H14N4O2 (arginine freebase) + HCl = arginine HCl
One of the nitrogens in the arginine will react with the HCl giving you a salt.
Now for your question.....................
Even though we can dissolve ammonia (which is a freebase) in water
most amine freebases are insoluble in water.
Take for example cocaine.
The cocaine which is snorted is the salt (HCl) form. The reasson
it is snorted is that it dissolves in the mucuse membrane of the nose. The cocain that is smoked is a freebase amine. The way it is obtained is by heating cocaine HCl in water with a little Sodium bicarbonate wich neutralizes the HCl thus liberating the freebase,
wich eventually seperates out of the water and is collected.
So if you where to snort cocaine freebase you would get NO effect because it does not dissolve in the nose.
Freebases are generally insoluble in water. SO if your taking
arginine make sure its the HCl salt form.
My assumption is that if you where to injest the freebase for of any amine you would absorbe very little of it.
Also, amines being caustic (basic) would probably not feel to good on your stomach.
Oh ya you can also form other salts then HCl salts.
For example look at nolvadex
which is tamoxifen citrate.
There is an amino group in tamoxifen which has been reacted with citric acid to for a citrate salt. THe reason again is probably because tamoxifen freebase is insoluble or not very soluble in water...........and well our body is comprised of water mainly ......right????
Anyways hope this helps and was not to confusing to you.
Amino acids are nitrogen containing compounds. Just like many other compounds these are amines.
To make it a little simple take ammonia. Contrary to what most people this ammonia is a gas and has the formula NH3.
NH3 is the freebase form. Amines have basic properties (meaning they can react with acids to form salts). This is due to the nitrogen in the amine in question. (im not goign to het into the details or nitrogen basicity unless you really want me to)
Lets keep it simple........
Now if we where to take the ammonia and dissolve it in water,
then add HCl (hydrochloric acid) we would for a salt.
Base (amine) + Acid (HCl) = ammonium chloride NH4Cl
This is the HCl salt of ammonia.
The same scenario happens with arginine
C6H14N4O2 (arginine freebase) + HCl = arginine HCl
One of the nitrogens in the arginine will react with the HCl giving you a salt.
Now for your question.....................
Even though we can dissolve ammonia (which is a freebase) in water
most amine freebases are insoluble in water.
Take for example cocaine.
The cocaine which is snorted is the salt (HCl) form. The reasson
it is snorted is that it dissolves in the mucuse membrane of the nose. The cocain that is smoked is a freebase amine. The way it is obtained is by heating cocaine HCl in water with a little Sodium bicarbonate wich neutralizes the HCl thus liberating the freebase,
wich eventually seperates out of the water and is collected.
So if you where to snort cocaine freebase you would get NO effect because it does not dissolve in the nose.
Freebases are generally insoluble in water. SO if your taking
arginine make sure its the HCl salt form.
My assumption is that if you where to injest the freebase for of any amine you would absorbe very little of it.
Also, amines being caustic (basic) would probably not feel to good on your stomach.
Oh ya you can also form other salts then HCl salts.
For example look at nolvadex
which is tamoxifen citrate.
There is an amino group in tamoxifen which has been reacted with citric acid to for a citrate salt. THe reason again is probably because tamoxifen freebase is insoluble or not very soluble in water...........and well our body is comprised of water mainly ......right????
Anyways hope this helps and was not to confusing to you.
Mr_Mercaptan
New member
By the way.............
Vitamine C (ascorbic acid)
and ALA (alpha Lipoic acid)
are acids and not bases
No supplements are basic really......unless you make your shakes with soap and draino.............hahahah lol
Vitamine C (ascorbic acid)
and ALA (alpha Lipoic acid)
are acids and not bases
No supplements are basic really......unless you make your shakes with soap and draino.............hahahah lol
Mr_Mercaptan
New member
hummm......
Interesting that they sell both freebase and salt.
What I ment really is that most all supplements with amine substituents on the molecule will be in the form of salts (in general) .
Beats me why someone would buy freebase arginine freebase.
Anyone have an answer.
From what I know HCl salts are generally better absorbed.
Sorry, I didn't read your question properly. I thaught you where assuming that these compounds where bases.
See what happens when you get up too early in the morning!!!
Interesting that they sell both freebase and salt.
What I ment really is that most all supplements with amine substituents on the molecule will be in the form of salts (in general) .
Beats me why someone would buy freebase arginine freebase.
Anyone have an answer.
From what I know HCl salts are generally better absorbed.
Sorry, I didn't read your question properly. I thaught you where assuming that these compounds where bases.
See what happens when you get up too early in the morning!!!
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