Are you a dead-beat loser? Can't pay your bills? Want something for free? Go to Maine

[gotmilk]

sounds like the pharma companies are losing too...no?

but who needs pharma R&D anyway?

Actually Matt...they do not lose because they already get massive federal tax breaks for discovery and trial charges. Why does a company like Geneva get to write-off $1 Billion....and still jack their prices up on drugs. To me....that's like making money twice.

You double your prices and get to charge off a majority of R&D expenses?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Actually Matt...they do not lose because they already get massive federal tax breaks for discovery and trial charges. Why does a company like Geneva get to write-off $1 Billion....and still jack their prices up on drugs. To me....that's like making money twice.

You double your prices and get to charge off a majority of R&D expenses?

Litigation against pharma companies often is extra costly because very few people outside of pharma understand the cost-benefit models that pharma companies actually use.

A lot of cutting edge pharma stuff simply doesn't jive with current tort/negligence laws. For example, (this is a crude example - I am tired, sorry) if thereis a new bone cancer drug out, and it costs $1000 per week to adminsiter, but it increases the survival rate from 5% to 15%.

patients aregoing to clamor for it. Yet, as people take it and die anyway, lawyers are going to sue, and the way negligence laws are written, plaintiffs will win.

However, the pharma industry appeals almost all of these, and almost always wins the appeals. Thesearethekindsof costs that are written off. Pharm trials are also super expensive because many experts are required due to the scientific nature of the business.

it is a more complex business than most others.

Regradless, government controlling prices is bad.

 

[p0ink]

poink...I am in Southern Maine....and know more about this than you do. People cannot move to Maine for free health care or access to cheap drugs.

There is a minimum income limit and a residency requirement that a majority of people will not meet. Of the 180,000 eligible Maine residents, only about 30,000 will be actually covered. The other 150,000 will benefit only by reduced medical charges and discount prescription plans. The only people who lose are the hospitals who are limited to the amount they can charge people.

The pharmaceutical companies must reduce their prices by almost 40% in Maine..or else face additional legal losses..

before i go further, tell me what the requirements are for people to get this handout. any url will do.

my question is why do you guys just stop at health care? what about giving them money to pay their homeowner's insurance? what about setting up a program to pay their car insurance. how about setting some public funds aside to pay for braces?

 

[p0ink]

another thing, if the state plans on paying for 180,000 uninsured residents (expect this number to increase..it always does), how are they going to pay for it? take money from the money tree?

no, they are going to tax the companies and those who are producing enough money to be taxed. do you think the companies, who will be taking a huge hit, will just absorb the cost? hell no, they will pass it on to the consumer. do you think businesses are going to stick around to pay for this? hell no, they will move out of state (maybe even out of country) to avoid being taxed to death.

i just hope these insurance companies wo end up getting taxed are only able to pass the rate increases on their maine residents, not he rest of us nationwide.

 

[atlantabiolab]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030617/ts_nm/health_insurance_dc_1

according to this report, not insuring people costs up to 2x as much as insuring them.

Cost of federal healthcare;
$34 - $69 billion

Cost of not having federal healthcare;
$65 - $130 billion

Proving p0ink wrong;
priceless

That article was nothing more than speculation, no hard data. Its numbers for the cost of "not insuring" people was pure conjecture.

 

[gotmilk]

before i go further, tell me what the requirements are for people to get this handout. any url will do.

my question is why do you guys just stop at health care? what about giving them money to pay their homeowner's insurance? what about setting up a program to pay their car insurance. how about setting some public funds aside to pay for braces?

Poink...do I look like your due diligence bitch? Search google for more info. It's on the TV here all the time and in the newspapers. The reason why the State of Maine won the Supreme Court case was because the State proved that the Pharma industry was double dipping. They were using massive tax breaks for R&D and then doubling the price of drugs here. The State of Maine found the same drugs..and in some cases...same batch numbers being sold for 50% less in Montreal....

What does bagging the pharma industry on illegal price gouging have to do with insurance? This case was about nothing more than affordable medicine for those who cannot afford their medicine.

The savings in prescription prices allows the State to reform or medical programs. Money that used to be spent on medicine subsidies can now be used for affordable medical access for those who cannot afford such things.

 

[gotmilk]

Litigation against pharma companies often is extra costly because very few people outside of pharma understand the cost-benefit models that pharma companies actually use.

patients aregoing to clamor for it. Yet, as people take it and die anyway, lawyers are going to sue, and the way negligence laws are written, plaintiffs will win.

However, the pharma industry appeals almost all of these, and almost always wins the appeals. Thesearethekindsof costs that are written off. Pharm trials are also super expensive because many experts are required due to the scientific nature of the business.

Regradless, government controlling prices is bad.


Actually..the case was run by the ME State Attorney General's office and others who donated time and services. That's why no lawyers were able to walk away with 40% of whatever was recovered..or in this case...a judgement forcing a correction in drug pricing.

The potential lawsuits are a federal issue..much like if people really need to sue McDonald's for making them fat...or Ford for driving on underinflated tires in your Ford Bronco..

No one is controlling prices. The pharma industry was caught red handed. All they have to do is lower their prices..like they do in Canada, Mexico, and anywhere else.

As for the appeal...this was their appeal. The pharma industry lost two years ago and the appeal ended up in the Supreme Court. The only reason the State beat the Pharma industry was the proof in pricing that was found and the amount of excessive write-offs the pharma industry used while claiming the were raising prices to pay for trials. The clinical trials were already covered....and they were caught fudging their expenses.

 

[supersizeme]

getting some crazy warm fuzzies after reading this thread over here

 

[gotmilk]

another thing, if the state plans on paying for 180,000 uninsured residents (expect this number to increase..it always does), how are they going to pay for it? take money from the money tree?

no, they are going to tax the companies and those who are producing enough money to be taxed. do you think the companies, who will be taking a huge hit, will just absorb the cost? hell no, they will pass it on to the consumer. do you think businesses are going to stick around to pay for this? hell no, they will move out of state (maybe even out of country) to avoid being taxed to death.

i just hope these insurance companies wo end up getting taxed are only able to pass the rate increases on their maine residents, not he rest of us nationwide.

You are still missing the point. You act like I can walk into Maine Medical Center and get a MRI at no cost. The State of Maine is not picking up the medical tab for 180,000 people.

First of all, anyone making 500% less than the poverty level, gets a voucher card that can be used to "accumulate" services. Think about it....are there 180,000 people in Maine making like $5000 or less? This is why the article you posted is very slanted and the writer needs to research this more.

Second, those eligible will be charged for services at a fixed rate. No $7 aspirin tablets or $1000 ambulance fees. Anyone in the Dirigo Health Plan will be charged at cost. These services are paid for by the tobacco settlement, taxes on insurance companies, and the money the State no longer has to spend for prescription medicine subsidies. Comprende?????

The hospitals in Maine actually benefit because they no longer have to give away free services. They can charge paying or insured customers the regular prices.....anyone on the Dirigo Health Plan can only be charged at cost.

This will save the State of Maine like $200 Million a year in money that used to reimburse unpaid medical bills. The savings combined with the other revenues (tobacco/presrip savings) pay for this program.

See...it works in Maine..it would not work in Florida, Texas, California, Michigan, etc....


By the way, what businesses in Maine can be taxed? Most left thanks to Bush's NAFTA program.....which thankfully was wiped out on January 1, 2003...

 

[hooch]

pOink...seriously are you :

a. a pointman for the Bush Administartion
b. a lobbyist for ExxonMobil
c. a lobbyist for Pfizer, Abbott Labs, ..etc
d. an owner of a coal mining operation...
f. holding millions dollars in defense stocks
e. all of the above