Are free weights really better than machines?

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I would use free weights, but i have the following reasons for not doing it.

• I dont have a spotter

• My gym doesn't have a squat machine or a cage

• Some weights are simply too heavy to get them from the floor to where i want them. E.g. When i do calf raises i am lifting 160kg; i couldn't lift this from the floor onto my back (just behind shoulder blades) if i tried it

• Some of the weights i lift would put a big hole in the floor if i dropped them (calf raises would made a massive hole). Using machines prevents this

i found that free weights are better. I don't have a spotter either. I use low weights for my first 4 sets (i do 5x5) then ask a guy next to me if hed mind spotting me for my last set of bench (i have yet to have a person say no - it only takes 25 seconds max for them to stop n help you out and most are great and willing to help n not just meatheads)


you don't NEED to drop them hard on the floor when you are done. It's better to go down slow after completing your exercise anywaysy for the full range of motion and best rep. Dropping it is plain disrespectful and won't help your training anyways

 

[Fury20]

To maintain the comparison shouldn't we be looking at the third guy who can bench 395 with a free weight?

Does anyone know of studies where they've taken groups of rookies and compared progress between free benchers and Smith pressers?

I think we're all agreed that for functional, real-world strength free weights are the only sensible option.

Not to be obnoxious here, so dont take this the wrong way. You hear "real world strength" all the time. But what does that mean??? If you can hammer incline press 650 pounds, then you're going to be big time "real world strong". On the other hand if you can bench 650 lbs, you are going to be extremely "real world strong". Strength is strength. Free weights do not equal real world strong. strength it self equals real world strong.

As far as studies go, Look at the guys DC has trained that use machines as regular movements and got the weights on those machines incredibly high. I trained DC for 4 blasts and saw the quickest gains in the shortest amount of time due to the rapid increases in strength. I regularly used machines. I also had a lot of free weight movements, about a 50/50 ratio. Point being that machine or not, gains in muscle were the result of strength gains on all movements, machine and free weight. You can take a any movement and push yourself to the limit on it.

**I am only talking about bodybuilding here. Obviously this does not apply to football/basketball/etc players or any other sports**

 

[Fury20]

Just for the record, i will be starting the Single Factor 5x5 very shortly. I stopped DC training do to Physical Training ROTC.

 

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Not to be obnoxious here, so dont take this the wrong way. You hear "real world strength" all the time. But what does that mean??? If you can hammer incline press 650 pounds, then you're going to be big time "real world strong". On the other hand if you can bench 650 lbs, you are going to be extremely "real world strong". Strength is strength. Free weights do not equal real world strong. strength it self equals real world strong.

As far as studies go, Look at the guys DC has trained that use machines as regular movements and got the weights on those machines incredibly high. I trained DC for 4 blasts and saw the quickest gains in the shortest amount of time due to the rapid increases in strength. I regularly used machines. I also had a lot of free weight movements, about a 50/50 ratio. Point being that machine or not, gains in muscle were the result of strength gains on all movements, machine and free weight. You can take a any movement and push yourself to the limit on it.

**I am only talking about bodybuilding here. Obviously this does not apply to football/basketball/etc players or any other sports**

first bolded statement -- you would think that you would be real world strong, but honestly the carry over really is nothing compared to if you train with freewiehgts. I used to be a warehouse manager and we had guys come in just like that, juiced to gills and trained with machines. I can honestly say that they were not much, if any better than guys that worked there who didn't work out. in fact I might say that they were worse workers because their endurance sucked and they ended up standing around.

second bolded statement -- DC training, although generally good, doesn't apply to most people. He advocates year round steroid use with cruise periods, as well as a diet containing 550-600 grams of protein per day. if you sub the machines for freewieghts in his program, the results are better.

third bolded statement -- simply put, you can train with less effort and intensity using freeweights than machines and get the same, if not better results. Try hooking your chest up to an EMG and measure the stimulus on a bench press vs a hammer strength machine press. you will quickly realize that the freewieght bench work is A LOT better.

machines have a time and a place, rehab work, focusing on a specific area to improve a CORE LIFT, and maybe for occasional aestithics. but realistically 90% of gains in the gym are driven from freeweight lifts. nuff said.

 

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Just for the record, i will be starting the Single Factor 5x5 very shortly. I stopped DC training do to Physical Training ROTC.

A decision you will not regret my friend! the gains should be quite good, make sure you are pounding back the calories to keep recovery going as it is quite demanding.

 

[Fury20]

A decision you will not regret my friend! the gains should be quite good, make sure you are pounding back the calories to keep recovery going as it is quite demanding.

I'll be frequenting the all you can eat buffet at the Patterson Dorm about 10 minutes from mine. I am looking forward to it. I used the basic 5x5 program before DC. I am also training for the University Strength meet next year. There is a university bodybuilding show in April, but i strongly doubt i'll be ready. I am training for the events next year.

BTW, DC training can be applied by anyone willing to sacrifice. His program has worked wonders for many natural trainees, including myself. It takes a ton of work and the will to push yourself way past your own limits. The main factor is strength gains. One set to max failure training as frequently as possible. Many many many trainees have broken down barriers without gear using his program. It is strictly a bodybuilding program, bottom line it works. The results are out there for people to see. The problem i have now is PT, in that it ruins anything DC does me. With the running and pushups etc. I would overtrain in no time. I would still be training DC if i had not joined ROTC. I will support DC and the help/knowledge he has shared. The program is one of the best best bodybuilding programs out there. Like i said, the results are out there, and trainees who have FOLLOWED DC EXACTLY AS HE STATES IT. Too many people are quick to criticize his program as "<insert complaint here>".
**note this is meant towards those who down DC as "doesnt work". You have to follow it as he planned it and stay with it. Its just not a good time in my life for DC (notice i am emphasizing that point**

anyway i am looking forward to starr's 5x5 program. i had been doing a lot of reading on dual factor (for education/knowledge sake). I will move up from the single factor to dual factor once i feel i can handle it and support it.

Thanks for the encouragement view. I will start in about two weeks as our first PT Test will be next wednesday morning. Not looking forward to that. cheers.

 

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DC training makes the assumption that the body can handle an ever increasing load over an infinite period of time. this clearly is not possible as fatigue will accumlate and overtraining will start to occur. If DC incorporated some form of deloading/strategic decondtioning into the program, it may have my grace, but it since it doesn't, it does not have my grace. that is what I would consider the programs tragic flaw -- change that and you have yourself something to work with.

 

[BiggT]

I just saw this thread and I have to agree with the consensus......I have a good comparison.....Take two guys, same weight/strength levels......have one guy spend 6 months squatting and the other spend 6 months leg pressing.....the guy squatting can do 365x1 after 6 months, the guy leg pressing can do, say 800x1 after 6 months....NOW, take the squatter, he will be able to leg press 800x1......the leg presser? He will be absolutely crushed by trying to squat 365.......Thats 'real world' strength....strength that is transferrable to something other than just doing one thing in one plane of movement. Sure, guys can grow muscle in a hammer strength machine, and sure, a guy hammer strength pressing 400lbs is stronger than a guy benching 135, but that guy is NOT a 400lb presser, and his strength is useless unless he is engaged in an activity where he is seated in a hammer strength machine, pushing in the EXACT same plane of motion as he does in the machine.......again, I am from a strength training background and don't get why people choose form over function, so to me, training with free weights first and foremost is a no brainer.

 

[Fury20]

DC training makes the assumption that the body can handle an ever increasing load over an infinite period of time. this clearly is not possible as fatigue will accumlate and overtraining will start to occur. If DC incorporated some form of deloading/strategic decondtioning into the program, it may have my grace, but it since it doesn't, it does not have my grace. that is what I would consider the programs tragic flaw -- change that and you have yourself something to work with.

umm..thats what cruising is for....

and no one has yet acknowledged the results DC has gotten trainees...esp. the natty guys..and girls..

 

[LoneTree]

Yes.
According to Fleck and Kraemer, with free weights, you have to maintain 3 way balance. Machines only require 1 way balance. So with weights, more muscle groups are involved in exercise.
I can always do more weight with machine compared to free weights.
By the way, dumb bells are better than bar bells for the same reason.