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40butpumpin
New member
anyone? what kind of dose(s) did you use?
anyone frontload tren?
- Thread starter 40butpumpin
- Start date
Dutch windmill
New member
Yup just started my new cycle last thursday..which consists of tren@ 75 mg/day, virormone prop @ 100 mg/day andwinny @ 40 mgs/day..i frontloaded the tren at 3 ml the first shot (225 mg)
D.W.
D.W.
jasonstrong
New member
Tren kicks in so fast why frontload...?
Enigmaxxx7
New member
jasonstrong said:
methinks the sameth
could be a frontload for gyno
40butpumpin
New member
honestly i wasn't aware of just how fast tren kicked in, but i figured i'd ask. but i already started and i didn't FL.
thanks for the help.
thanks for the help.
sh4dowf4lcon
New member
People I know usually frontload their EQ, because it is slower to get into your system. Tren is fast acting, so I do not see the benefit in frontloading...but, to each his own.
Dutch windmill
New member
ulter said:
Exactly
D.W.
Moderate_THIS
New member
I like to frontload a-bombs
S
slobberknocker
Guest
I don't know about you guys, but I don't start seeing results from tren until week 3. That's not that fast, IMO.
40butpumpin
New member
slobberknocker said:
yeah bro, my first time around i didn't see squat until about the third week either and now here i am again 1 week in, and nada.
i'm surprised to see this thread still around but maybe it should be. i realize it's fast acting, however, s'knocker's right, at least that's my experience.
i guess the question is would it even make a difference to FL one time. i know there's bro's doing up to 150mg ed though, not common but i have heard of it.
i'm curious to hear from some of the big dose guys now, like 100mg ed and above, when do you guys start seeing results? i was doing 75mg ed when i did mine.
drveejay11
New member
slobberknocker said:
me too.......3 weeks
J
Juice Authority
Guest
chaos mage said:
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J
Juice Authority
Guest
Frontloading Tren has got to be one of more useless ideas I've ever heard. What exactly is that supposed to accomplish?
S
slobberknocker
Guest
Juice Authority said:Frontloading Tren has got to be one of more useless ideas I've ever heard. What exactly is that supposed to accomplish?
Read the previous posts.
40butpumpin
New member
Andy13 said:
because i've already started. maybe next time. i don't buy the gyno talk, however. imo, if you're prone to gyno you're gonna get it at 75 mg as easilly as you would with a day or two (or even a week) of 150mg first, and then back to 75mg. i'm surprised some of you believe otherwise. but the idea, JA, would be to maximize blood levels in an effort to get the body to respond in a minimum amount of time. sorry for stating something that i'm sure you already know, however, considering the sort duration tren is typically run (4-6 weeks), i don't believe it's a useless idea.
Fonz, your tren knowledge and experience is probably unparralleled on this board, at least that i know of, any opinion?
40butpumpin
New member
thate said:
i hear you brother, which is the real wildcard with tren, so this may be impractical indeed.
i want to wait until the tren has kicked into high gear before i cut back bro.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
40butpumpin said:
Given Tren's incredibly short half life the likely result of "frontloading" tren will be extreme peaks and valleys in blood concentration levels. The idea is to always maintain a certain level of consistency in blood concentration levels, which is why taking the same dosage ED is the optimal way to go unless you're dealing with longer acting esters like EQ, CYP or ENAN. Even at that, some schools of thought would differ on the effectiveness of frontloading long-acting esters for the same reason and go so for as to call the whole frontloading theory a myth regardless of the compound.
40butpumpin
New member
Andy13 said:
i definitely feel this and it's both physiological and psychological, imo. i believe it's working right in the CNS which can make this possible. the anxiety and depression for me at the very end of my first time around was profound to say the least. but blood pressure is likely not a cause of anxiety but rather another effect of what ever's causing the anxitey/anger.
40butpumpin
New member
XBiker said:
interesting choice of words considering you're talking about tren.
XB what kind of doses do you run and when do you first see it kick in?
40butpumpin
New member
Juice Authority said:
yes, one would definitely want to avoid extreme peaks and valleys, however, frontloading is even used in traditional medicine with drugs such as anti-biotics to get blood concentrations up as fast as possible so as to avoid a slow ramp-up of blood concentrations. this is in fact what my goal was, to spike blood concentrations up, avoiding the relatively slow ramp-up, and then keep it up for the duration.
so i guess the question is are blood contrations the same after the first 24 hours as they are after the first two weeks. if they are then there is no need, but i tend to doubt that despite it having a short half-life.
does a short half-life necessarily mean it will get blood concentrations peaked to the desired, or ultimate levels after the first administration? I don't think so. it only describes, as far as i know, the time at which that substance will reach it's peak potency, having nothing to do with the volume, and therefore concentration in which it's placed. consider if you put 100mg of tren in 5 quarts of blood, and also 55 quarts of blood, the half-life wouldn't change for either, however, the concentration, and time to reach the desired concentration would be greatly affected. which would mean that it takes time for blood levels to rise to peak values for that dose, independant of substance half-life and frontloading should shorten that time.
at least that's how i see it.
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J
Juice Authority
Guest
40butpumpin said:
The baseline release of Tren is strongest within the first 8-12 hours. The release after that is minimal so think about it...if you frontloaded it your baseline release would be 3X if you're using 225mg's versus 75mg's within the first 8-12 hours resulting in a higher short-term peak and further decline. The net result here would be inconsistent blood concentration levels after the frontloading period, which will elevate your BP and make the well-known side effects of Tren much more pronounced.
40butpumpin
New member
Juice Authority said:
yes, if you inject 3x75mg then the max potency occuring at the half-life will indeed be 225mg. however, that does not mean that the max blood levels will be 3x what they would be after two weeks into 75mg ed after the first 8-12 hours because of the blood concentration ramp-up time. they would eventually get to 3x, as blood concentration continued to rise as the daily injections continued, but again, that would take time, more time than the first 8-12 hours. decline would be minimal as long as the injections were consistent and daily, however, the sides and blood pressure comment holds no merit imo. i think that will be individual-specific, as some are more prone than others, like anything. i haven't had any issues with tren and bp.
the key would be to find out what initial dose, and taken for how long, would put you at the same blood levels you'd have after say the first three weeks, when you'd expect the blood levels to be consistently at their highest concentration. in other words, to minimize the blood concentration ramp-up time as much as absolutely possible.
despite the half-life, there is definitely a blood concentration ramp-up time that is wasteful considering the short duration of tren cycle times.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
Unless you're monitoring your blood levels daily what you're asking would be next to impossible to determine as the "ramp-up" period varies on the individual as do the side effects. I say go for it and let us all know how it works out.
thate
New member
40butpumpin said:
i hear you brother, which is the real wildcard with tren, so this may be impractical indeed.
i want to wait until the tren has kicked into high gear before i cut back bro.
How much are you taking? I start out at 75mg eod and end up at 100mg ed most of the time. Seems to work for me
40butpumpin
New member
Juice Authority said:
yeah i hear you man and i agree.
40butpumpin
New member
thate said:
yes, this is exactly what i just started yesterday, i went from 75mg to 100mg.
If TA is estimated to have a half life close to 48hrs (maybe less), you would most certainly reach max blood levels by the end of the first week with normal, ED or EOD dosing..
By attempting to front load, you are really defeating the purpose. The concept of the front end load is to reach max blood levels (that are seen during mid-cycle) in a shortened amount of time.
I never intended front end loading to be a phase early in the cycle, where the highest blood levels are seen, later followed by decreased blood levels. Is it wrong to jump blood levels up beyond mid-cycle-mean during the first week or two of a cycle? I don't know. Nobody can say until he tries it. Who knows, if you did this, and it worked nicely for you, I'll add another chapter to my book of front-end loading and cite your experience.
With that, any attempt to use more than your regular, ED (or EOD) dose to "front load" will almost certainly result in HIGHER blood levels for this time period compared to mid-cycle levels fallen to for the rest of the cycle. It's up to you. Let us know how it goes.
Andy
By attempting to front load, you are really defeating the purpose. The concept of the front end load is to reach max blood levels (that are seen during mid-cycle) in a shortened amount of time.
I never intended front end loading to be a phase early in the cycle, where the highest blood levels are seen, later followed by decreased blood levels. Is it wrong to jump blood levels up beyond mid-cycle-mean during the first week or two of a cycle? I don't know. Nobody can say until he tries it. Who knows, if you did this, and it worked nicely for you, I'll add another chapter to my book of front-end loading and cite your experience.
With that, any attempt to use more than your regular, ED (or EOD) dose to "front load" will almost certainly result in HIGHER blood levels for this time period compared to mid-cycle levels fallen to for the rest of the cycle. It's up to you. Let us know how it goes.
Andy
40butpumpin
New member
Andy13 said:
thanks Andy, i'll do that when the time comes. if you say, however, that blood levels will actually exceed mid-cycle levels by front loading, i really don't see any justification for doing it. my goal was not to exceed, but rather achieve mid-cycle levels as fast as absolutely possible. if you're saying it's just a week, then it's not worth doing. my concern was that it was longer than that. thanks again.
40butpumpin
New member
Dial_tone said:
interesting. i'd like to see this. thanks DT!
Dial_tone said:
Two things
1) If doesn't matter if fina is injected ED or EOD as far as length of time it takes to reach max blood levels.. Frequency of injection is important for blood stability-- but not if we're talking about length of time to "max blood levels."
2) The concept of "max blood level" is practically sound, however, mathematically, there is no such ceiling. Indeed, with every injection, blood levels increase, even when the "max" has been reached. The reason why we say "max" (when there is no such thing, in theory) is because once the "practical max blood levels" (as we know) have approached, the increase thereafter is essentially immeasurable.
It has been some time (years) since I have seen Zyg's fina charts. I've made of few of these charts myself, and I can tell you that the increase in blood levels from the end of week 1 to the end of week three is marginal.
It doesn't take fina long to build up in the system.. at least in theory
Andy
Stillgoing
New member
A week and I feel it. However, this has always been from a natural state. If your running tren later in a cycle I suspect the point that you believe you are "feeling it" may be a bit elongated.....
