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any one not like WSB

Lord_Suston

New member
Now I know I haven't give WSB enough time yet, but I got a question for those who train for strength and speed. Do you feel that WSB primarily trains for the big three (dead, bench, squat) and not speed or moving strength? I mean that those lift are done in a static field where one is not moving, unlike Strongman type events.

I am just wondering what would help me more in the long run, I mean a great bench doesn't quite help me on any stones. Squating helps but compared to a yoke walk or sled drag. I guess the question is I am not going to any powerlifting comps soon, should I rework my current training schedule?

thanks for any input
 
Think about using Swains Eastside training. . . .focuses on developing both strength and size and is a compatible program for athletics.

Think about it!!!
 
louden_swain said:
Think about using Swains Eastside training. . . .focuses on developing both strength and size and is a compatible program for athletics.

Think about it!!!

this is true but I almost don't want anymore size, I would like to be 190 at 8% and fast, not just lifting fast but overall explosive, sprinting, jumping, olympic lifting
 
I modified my WSB "Based" routine to fit strongman.

I generally follow WSB prociples, but focus them on movements that will support strongman and it's events.

For example, my ME Bench day, is an ME Upper (OHP) day. I follow The Asylum crew's 2 main moves followed by 1-2 ancillary moves. But instead of bench press, I will put in OHP moves and partials.

I do the same for the rest of the 3 workout days for the week, when it's applicable. I also have started adding events in each day if it makes sense to.


Joker
 
Swain- I take training seriously, hence I evaluate everyone's opinion and use it to consider my own programs

Joker- Thanks, I was wondering, do you think WSB leaves out a lot of upper back excercises and explosive lifts???
 
Lord_Suston said:


this is true but I almost don't want anymore size, I would like to be 190 at 8% and fast, not just lifting fast but overall explosive, sprinting, jumping, olympic lifting

Well, you are incredibly strong for your size!!! You display phenomenal ratios. . . better than me :).

All of your numbers are impressive. . .personally, I think you should keep training the way you always have.

Go back to the basics in terms of weight training while practicing events

Create your own program. . .something that works for you. . . because I believe that you know what works for you.
 
Lord_Suston said:
Swain- I take training seriously, hence I evaluate everyone's opinion and use it to consider my own programs

Joker- Thanks, I was wondering, do you think WSB leaves out a lot of upper back excercises and explosive lifts???

Only if you don't add them in.

I'm far from an expert in WSB, but from what I've learned over the last or so, is that there is no right or wrong moves for it. It's the basic priciples behind why you do them that is why WSB works so well.

For instance, I use olympic lifts for core strength and to develop speed for the bottom of my deadlift. I do them primarily on DE Lower. Works very well for me.

You can add in any lifts you want, but like B-Fold told me, "Don't do anything in your regimen unless you know EXACTLY why you are doing it." Once you know that, you will know which day makes the most sense to implement them on.:)

Of course, this is just MHO on it. I do what seems to work for me.


Joker
 
Suston- my training partner and I agree with you a good deal. We've started incorporating a lot of olympic lifting, which we feel will help in both powerlifting and strongman. I also only train bench because I compete in powerlifting... even though I hate benching, lol.

I think building a big squat is VERY important for strongman. Leg strength is extremely important in things like the yoke and farmer's walk, simply because speed is so important in these events. I train with another guy whose sprinting speed is about the same as mine (Kyle from Bluegrass... he was in the 200s as well). However, I have a much better squat than him, and my leg speed is a lot faster.

I think the lower body work that Westside does is VERY good for strongman... what I would suggest doing is changing your upper body workouts to get more triceps lockout strength... and substitute OH work for bench press work.

Hope this helped a little. Shoot me any questions you have.

Cuthbert
 
The thing is. . .you can always train hard and emphasize weak points without using WSB.

Ask yourself. . .which exercises are best for developing strength, speed, and flexibility.

Ask yourself. . .how long does it take to recover (training frequency)?

Ask yourself. . what type of volume works best for me?

Ask yourself. . .what sets, reps, and cycles (light, mod, heavy training) are most effective for building progress?

Ask yourself. . .about food and rest? What does your body need?

Once you can answer these questions, your program is formed.

I truly believe in simplicity and flexibility of a program. . .no need to make things difficult.
 
sutson i did wsb for a while. then i got into strongman and sounded like you. well i kept some of its principles and then took a look at myself and what i wanted to accomplish and just based routine around my needs. such as ohp stregnth instead of bench. and explosiveness for the tire so dimel deadlifts. and for overall power i just do some deads and gm and box squats. i thorw in whatever i feel necessary at the time. prolly dosnt seem to well thought out or anything compared to the made up plans of others but it works for me and thats all that matters. basically look at your goals and design for yourself it will work out best in the end. know your weeknesses and strong points and work with them.:)
 
i use WSB to train the big 3 yes. but....my main moves are weird: zerchers for ME lower day, i do push presses on DE upper. i basically cater it to overall strength which will have a great carryover. for strongman, you will want to implement your heavy work on your ME days. if bench isnt going to be your thing, but value tricep strength, maybe log press is the way to go. you gotta cater it to your needs. so bench isnt your need?...as oreo said, the OHP is. spatts says she does OLY lifts on DE days. i agree there. nothing like some explosive concentric movements. i wouldnt discount WSB for the lower stuff though. i can see it being very beneficial, coupled with strongman training. you have specific events that you want improved (yokes etc) so do them in conjunction with your lower body work. if you want to work them more, they will be your ME main move. you can alway do assistance work for it by using GMs, GHR'S etc. i think you can work it out. i like the program, i use it for my own purposes, which are ever changing. bodybuilding is not a priority of mine, having fun now is...so i do. i lift and improve things as i find them as being the "weak point" in my armor. thats all. :)
 
Cuthbert said:
Suston- my training partner and I agree with you a good deal. We've started incorporating a lot of olympic lifting, which we feel will help in both powerlifting and strongman. I also only train bench because I compete in powerlifting... even though I hate benching, lol.

I think building a big squat is VERY important for strongman. Leg strength is extremely important in things like the yoke and farmer's walk, simply because speed is so important in these events. I train with another guy whose sprinting speed is about the same as mine (Kyle from Bluegrass... he was in the 200s as well). However, I have a much better squat than him, and my leg speed is a lot faster.

I think the lower body work that Westside does is VERY good for strongman... what I would suggest doing is changing your upper body workouts to get more triceps lockout strength... and substitute OH work for bench press work.

Hope this helped a little. Shoot me any questions you have.

Cuthbert

I agree with most everything here.

I do speed bench mostly with close grips to assist me with the overhead press. My ME day is an overhead day. Remember...I train WSB and it had been working VERY well for me.

Did you download and save my workout program that I posted a while back?

B True
 
I modified the wsb split for power sports that require strength in more planes than the big three, do a search for the thread I started called WSB for athletes....at least you can get an idea of the changes that I have needed to make to be more sport specific...
 
Lord_Suston said:
Thanks joker that is the kind of encouragement I was hoping for an honest answer with a great quote

No problem. I hope it helps.

Be sure and post up what you come up with for a plan. I am always looking for new ideas.:)



Joker
 
BFold- I downloaded one, but it was before you got hurt, no offense I think right now you are faster and stronger than before, because your injury made you strengthen your weak points. Points on prioritizing strongmane taken though

IronLion I remember the post and it was really detailed, I might use parts of it in this next routine. thanks for log btw

Joker I will pm you as soon as I get it created

Thanks everyone for your input
 
Bro I think I agree with louden to do whatever is best for you. You got to your strength levels by training with a program that worked best for you.. which obviously was effective with your huge bench and deadlift and squat.... so I think you should continue to do whatever works for you
 
You can't argue with the results it produces for many, but I tend to feel the same way as you.

I've always got the best results when I've made my training for me rather than following a template, even if it is such a personalized one like WSB.

You didn't get where you are by chance. Remember that.
 
Lord_Suston said:
Thanks cuthbert, what do you think about doing light snatches on an overhead day after pushpress???


I did that exact thing tonight.

Along with stone training :)
 
hey guys, just becuase Lord Suston has made progress doesnt mean he has to stick with the same program.

there is a good way , a better way, and a best way to get things accomplished.

say Lord Suston is an B Class Athlete. and his current training program will take him to an A Class Athlete in 5 years. but another program will do it in 4. and another one will do it in 2.5 years.

life is too precious and short to waist time. give me the 2.5 year program any day of the week.

LS, just like everyone said, taylor the program to your needs. wsb is principals, and an outline, you put the beef in the middle, that gets you were your going........... and i know you will.

X
 
use the "principles" of wsb to make your program. i may be nothing like an actual wsb lifter does, but will be using the same "principles" that are universal to build strength, power. dyanmic effort, max effort, repitition.
 
brian747478` said:
use the "principles" of wsb to make your program. i may be nothing like an actual wsb lifter does, but will be using the same "principles" that are universal to build strength, power. dyanmic effort, max effort, repitition.

I agree. I think that YOUR program that you have put together has helped you become a better complete ATHLETE. It takes time to put things together, think about things, try things, and adapt them to your needs. You are a PERFECT example.

B True
 
Lord_Suston said:
BFold- I downloaded one, but it was before you got hurt, no offense I think right now you are faster and stronger than before, because your injury made you strengthen your weak points. Points on prioritizing strongmane taken though


Right now I feel like about 90% of what I was in February 2003, when I won the Boston contest. I think that I could be 100% of that in a month's time if all goes well. I need to be at about 125% to even be competitive with the Pro's...or to even be known that I was even in the same contest as them.

I am getting stronger every week and strengthening a few things. I'd still like to hit 8 on the squat again and 1k in 2 years. I'd also like to get a 725-745 pull by February 2004.

August - October 2003 Program

B True
 
I think you sometimes have to just "play around" until you find something that feels right for what you are currently trying to do.
 
Here is WSB with oly slant -

Christian Thibaudeau (2003-01-26 10:00:45 1986)
the training split is morphed into the following:

Day 1: Maximum effort squat/deadlift day
Day 2: OFF
Day 3: Maximum effort bench press day
Day 4: OFF
Day 5: Dynamic effort squat/deadlift day + power snatch and power clean variations
Day 6: OFF
Day 7: Dynamic effort bench press day + jerk variations

So the maximum effort days are unchanged compared to the original Westside system. Only the dynamic effort days are modified.

Modifications to do in the dynamic days

The following modifications must be made for the hybrid to work:

1) The addition of the Olympic lifts to their respective training day (power snatch from blocks and power clean from blocks on day 5, push jerk on day 7).

2) The reduction of the regular speed work. With the addition of two high acceleration exercises on the dynamic squat day it is necessary to reduce the volume of dynamic squat work to avoid overloading the nervous system. So instead of performing 10-12 sets of 2 reps, you will limit yourself to 5-6 sets of 2. The same thing is to be done for the dynamic bench press.

3) Reordering of the workout. During the dynamic days, the Olympic lifts are performed first.

Volume and intensity selection for the Olympic lifts

The volume for the Olympic lifts should be kept relatively low as these exercises are already very demanding on the CNS.

For the power snatch and power clean 3-4 sets of 2-3 reps should be performed. When combined with the dynamic squat this will give you between 11-14 sets of speed work.

On the push jerk (or power jerk) you can do a bit more sets because you only use one Olympic lift on the dynamic bench day. 5-7 sets of 2-3 reps is adequate and will give you 10-13 speed sets on that day.

The general Westside rule is to keep the intensity (load on the bar) between 50-60% for the dynamic work. For the Olympic lifts that percentage is increased a bit because even at a relatively high percentage they remain an explosive exercise. An intensity of 70-80% is best on the Olympic lifts, with an occasional set at 85-90%.

So what does it look like?

To the exception of the additional Olympic lifts and the slight modifications to the dynamic days, the routine stays exactly the same as a regular Westside program (that?s why it might be important for you to read a lot on the Westside system before designing your own hybrid). The only thing that might change is the inclusion of snatch grip deadlifts from various heights (from floor, from blocks, standing on a block) as a maximum effort exercise for the squat/deadlift. But just to be clear, here?s what the dynamic effort days could look like:

Dynamic effort squat/deadlift + power clean and power snatch

A. Power snatch from blocks
Sets: 3-4
Reps: 2-3
Intensity: 70-80%
Tempo: explosive
Rest between sets: 45 seconds

B. Power clean from blocks
Sets: 3-4
Reps: 2-3
Intensity: 70-80%
Tempo: explosive
Rest between sets: 45 seconds

C. Dynamic box squat (with bands or chains if possible)
Sets: 5-6
Reps: 2
Intensity: 50-60%
Tempo: 21X (controlled down, very short pause on the box, explosive up)
Rest between sets: 45 seconds

D. Reverse hyper/glute ham raise/natural glute ham raise
* These are in order of effectiveness, select the one available to you
Sets: 3-4
Reps: 8-10
Intensity: 70-75%
Tempo: 20X
Rest between sets: 60-90 seconds

Dynamic effort bench press + jerk

A. Push jerk
Sets: 5-7
Reps: 2-3
Intensity: 70-80%
Tempo: explosive
Rest between sets: 45 seconds

B. Dynamic bench press (with bands or chains if possible)
Sets: 5-6
Reps: 3
Intensity: 50-60%
Tempo: 20X (controlled down, explosive up)
Rest between sets: 45 seconds

C. Lying barbell triceps extension
Sets: 3-4
Reps: 8-10
Intensity: 70-75%
Tempo: 201
Rest between sets: 60 seconds

D. Dumbbell lateral raises
Sets: 3-4
Reps: 8-10
Intensity: 70-75%
Tempo: 201
Rest between sets: 60 seconds

E. Rear delt raises
Sets: 3-4
Reps: 8-10
Intensity: 70-75%
Tempo: 201
Rest between sets: 60 seconds

Of course this is only an example. The strongest facet of the Westside system is its versatility: you can adjust and tweak it to better fit your needs and capacities as long as you stay within the basic principles of the system.

This hybrid is a very powerful training approach for athletes interested in improving their physical qualities as much as possible. To the hybrid you can add other elements such as general physical preparation work as well as speed and agility drills. Hopefully this article will have sparked some ideas in you. The premise of this system is to think for yourself, work hard and reap the rewards!


Christian Thibaudeau (2003-01-26 13:28:29 1994)
The rest of the program stays exactly as a regular westside plan. Only the dynamic days are changed.
 
JOKER47 said:


Can't wait to see it.:)

I'm probably gonna steal some, if not all, of your OHP plans. Damn OHP freak.....:D


Joker


;) -maybe I'll kepp them secret..... Actually I just bought some chain at home depot and worked with them tonight and had a great workout.
 
Lord_Suston said:
thanks everyone I think I made my split more sutiable for myself today

Can't wait to see it.:)

I'm probably gonna steal some, if not all, of your OHP plans. Damn OHP freak.....:D


Joker
 
Lord_Suston said:



;) -maybe I'll kepp them secret..... Actually I just bought some chain at home depot and worked with them tonight and had a great workout.

Better not keep'em secret......:D I need all the help I can get.......

I just got my bands this week. Hope to put them to use tomorrow and Monday.



Joker
 
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