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any endurance athletes out there?
- Thread starter triguy
- Start date
fhg43
New member
Triguy-
I am all about the exchange of performance enhancing tips. Post a question and I'll try to answer and vice versa. Here's a freebie:
Tip 1-Train a lot!!! I am not being a smartass. I primarily race my bike, but I end up riding w/triathletes a lot and I dom some triathlons. These guys always say "the bike is going to be so hard" and "I don't have the endurance for my Ironman". Well tell you what-most of my crits are ninety minutes and the road races are about 4 hours, but I do 6 hours on the bike every Saturday and like 4-6 on Sunday during the winter. This builds awesome endurance that makes anything seem like a cakewalk. It is hard as hell at first, but in a few weeks you see the tremendous benefits.
I'll post again with some good endurance supp info.
FHG
I am all about the exchange of performance enhancing tips. Post a question and I'll try to answer and vice versa. Here's a freebie:
Tip 1-Train a lot!!! I am not being a smartass. I primarily race my bike, but I end up riding w/triathletes a lot and I dom some triathlons. These guys always say "the bike is going to be so hard" and "I don't have the endurance for my Ironman". Well tell you what-most of my crits are ninety minutes and the road races are about 4 hours, but I do 6 hours on the bike every Saturday and like 4-6 on Sunday during the winter. This builds awesome endurance that makes anything seem like a cakewalk. It is hard as hell at first, but in a few weeks you see the tremendous benefits.
I'll post again with some good endurance supp info.
FHG
finally! cycle/tri racer!
whats your opionin on
inj ATP.
kynoselen ( contains heptaminol-guys in europe use it for cycling)
AS
vitamins.
I hear ya on long rides, Im a firm believer in building that aerobic engine, *phil maffetone. Im a x-bb'r turned aspiring time trialist/triathlete. I just started so 4 hr bike rides are a couplke months away.
I also believe in high volume training. Thats why i belive AS are important. They allow those 2x a day 2 hr each workouts, 6 x a week!. lets keep in touch!!!
peace.
whats your opionin on
inj ATP.
kynoselen ( contains heptaminol-guys in europe use it for cycling)
AS
vitamins.
I hear ya on long rides, Im a firm believer in building that aerobic engine, *phil maffetone. Im a x-bb'r turned aspiring time trialist/triathlete. I just started so 4 hr bike rides are a couplke months away.
I also believe in high volume training. Thats why i belive AS are important. They allow those 2x a day 2 hr each workouts, 6 x a week!. lets keep in touch!!!
peace.
fhg43
New member
S'up triguy!
Here ya go:
whats your opionin on
inj ATP.
kynoselen ( contains heptaminol-guys in europe use it for cycling)
AS
vitamins.
inj ATP: Hmmmm...Don't really know sounds good.
Kynoselen: Heard it works for some people-don't know anybody who uses it or has any 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge. Some people on Elite boards think it works-some don't.
AS: That shit works. No one has ever said to me I use this stuff and it works, but from my knowledge it works and I know some guys are using it. Since such stuff is illegal in our sport we rarely compare notes so as not to indite ourselves, but like I said, I know some guys use it. A few Euro pros told me all the top guys have to use something to do the 3 week races and you can be clean over there. But after a few months you have to take something to help you recover.
Vitamins: the most anabolic tool in the world is your diet. Proper diet-good clean food and properly timed-will as much as good training. The two must go hand in hand. You get tons of vitamins from good food, but you need to supplement since you are doing hard workouts. I supplement with some iron after long hard rides, but not all the time. I take lots of C and B-complex too. E is good for increased immune function. I take flax seed oil in the morning and evening too.
I have used prohormones and they work well. They aid in recovery which is key for high level endurance athletes. I take saw palmetto to help with prostate inflammation. I use whey protein drinks after long hard rides. I also drink Endurox R4 after rides-this is a good drink w/carbs and some protein. When riding I use Extran or Revenge, both work really well for me.
FHG
Here ya go:
whats your opionin on
inj ATP.
kynoselen ( contains heptaminol-guys in europe use it for cycling)
AS
vitamins.
inj ATP: Hmmmm...Don't really know sounds good.
Kynoselen: Heard it works for some people-don't know anybody who uses it or has any 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge. Some people on Elite boards think it works-some don't.
AS: That shit works. No one has ever said to me I use this stuff and it works, but from my knowledge it works and I know some guys are using it. Since such stuff is illegal in our sport we rarely compare notes so as not to indite ourselves, but like I said, I know some guys use it. A few Euro pros told me all the top guys have to use something to do the 3 week races and you can be clean over there. But after a few months you have to take something to help you recover.
Vitamins: the most anabolic tool in the world is your diet. Proper diet-good clean food and properly timed-will as much as good training. The two must go hand in hand. You get tons of vitamins from good food, but you need to supplement since you are doing hard workouts. I supplement with some iron after long hard rides, but not all the time. I take lots of C and B-complex too. E is good for increased immune function. I take flax seed oil in the morning and evening too.
I have used prohormones and they work well. They aid in recovery which is key for high level endurance athletes. I take saw palmetto to help with prostate inflammation. I use whey protein drinks after long hard rides. I also drink Endurox R4 after rides-this is a good drink w/carbs and some protein. When riding I use Extran or Revenge, both work really well for me.
FHG
I'm a track and field runner and currently on my 2nd AS cycle (Eq/anavar with a little bit nandrolone). It works really great for strength and recovery time, but I don't really know about endurance, cos you loose it when you gain too much weight.
I think we should stick only with AS used with the cutting phase of BB : winstrol/anavar/masteron/primo/Eq (not at high doses)...and maybe fina but I didn't try it yet.
I don't care about tests (my level is not high enough to be tested, in France only national level athletes can be tested), so I can try everything I want...
I've just bought 1 bottle syntheselen (human version of kynoselen) and will take it in two months, right after my current cycle.
I think we should stick only with AS used with the cutting phase of BB : winstrol/anavar/masteron/primo/Eq (not at high doses)...and maybe fina but I didn't try it yet.
I don't care about tests (my level is not high enough to be tested, in France only national level athletes can be tested), so I can try everything I want...
I've just bought 1 bottle syntheselen (human version of kynoselen) and will take it in two months, right after my current cycle.
Winny!!!
Hey Triguy - sorry was not attempting to resemble your handle.
I am a 30's something cyclist turned age grouper triathlete.
Used AAS over the years - two cycles per year. First during those long base days - the second halfway through season.
Winstro Depot 50mg EOD
Deca 200mg week.
No real problems - Deca eases the joints too.
If too much weight gained, go onto Clen (Spiropent). But remember that it may reduce your capacity for endurance.
Hope this helps.
Hey Triguy - sorry was not attempting to resemble your handle.
I am a 30's something cyclist turned age grouper triathlete.
Used AAS over the years - two cycles per year. First during those long base days - the second halfway through season.
Winstro Depot 50mg EOD
Deca 200mg week.
No real problems - Deca eases the joints too.
If too much weight gained, go onto Clen (Spiropent). But remember that it may reduce your capacity for endurance.
Hope this helps.
Clen
Depends on the distance of the tri's your doing.
Olympic distance in say 2hrs would not be too bad. However, Ironman distance...say 10 - 11 hours then Clen may not be ideal as it raises the bodies core temperature and may possibly lead to dehydration and / or Sodium depletion. The latter is particularly dangerous for ultra endurace athletes.
If you come off it a week or so before, you may be OK. Beware its half life time.
True, Clen opens the lungs and helps to reduce muscle loss at the end of a cycle. It also strips fat, but it does have its down side.
Never really used Winny dep on its own for that long. Usually as part of a stack.
Try this link - good info
http://www.clenbuterol.com/
Depends on the distance of the tri's your doing.
Olympic distance in say 2hrs would not be too bad. However, Ironman distance...say 10 - 11 hours then Clen may not be ideal as it raises the bodies core temperature and may possibly lead to dehydration and / or Sodium depletion. The latter is particularly dangerous for ultra endurace athletes.
If you come off it a week or so before, you may be OK. Beware its half life time.
True, Clen opens the lungs and helps to reduce muscle loss at the end of a cycle. It also strips fat, but it does have its down side.
Never really used Winny dep on its own for that long. Usually as part of a stack.
Try this link - good info
http://www.clenbuterol.com/
I don't think primo is really a good choice for erythopoiesis only. Some long distance runners did use it, cos it prevents muscle loss when you're doing heavy training for a long time (and primo gives you a boost on the immune system, too).
If you want to take AS for erythopoiesis, the best are -by far- :
1) anadrol : used for treating anemia. The big pb for an endurance athlete is that it makes you bloating and it's liver toxic. So don't take for more than 6 weeks at "low" doses (50mg ed is enough). Take winstrol to prevent progesterone titties and (IMO) proviron to keep water away...
2) Masteron : Highly androgenic with mild anabolic properties. It gives you the "kick" to train hard without the sides of test or tren. Very hard to find and very expensive, but very effective...
3) Eq : Many claim it's the best for vascularity. very low sides (if not taken over 500-600mg/w) and low prices (you can use deca instead for same results, but it's more expensive and IMO not as effective as Eq)
4)testosterones and trenbolone : androgens boost erythopoiesis, but endurance athletes don't want too much size, so doses have to be (very) low from a BB point of view (maybe 200mg test/week to speed recovery)
For me, the best stack without EPO (low sides/good results) : masteron/Eq at moderate doses (no more than 300mg each/week) with maybe a little bit test or winstrol added (for strength and hardness).
But as FHG said : Tip 1 = train a lot
If you want to take AS for erythopoiesis, the best are -by far- :
1) anadrol : used for treating anemia. The big pb for an endurance athlete is that it makes you bloating and it's liver toxic. So don't take for more than 6 weeks at "low" doses (50mg ed is enough). Take winstrol to prevent progesterone titties and (IMO) proviron to keep water away...
2) Masteron : Highly androgenic with mild anabolic properties. It gives you the "kick" to train hard without the sides of test or tren. Very hard to find and very expensive, but very effective...
3) Eq : Many claim it's the best for vascularity. very low sides (if not taken over 500-600mg/w) and low prices (you can use deca instead for same results, but it's more expensive and IMO not as effective as Eq)
4)testosterones and trenbolone : androgens boost erythopoiesis, but endurance athletes don't want too much size, so doses have to be (very) low from a BB point of view (maybe 200mg test/week to speed recovery)
For me, the best stack without EPO (low sides/good results) : masteron/Eq at moderate doses (no more than 300mg each/week) with maybe a little bit test or winstrol added (for strength and hardness).
But as FHG said : Tip 1 = train a lot
EPO low sides????? I thought theres risk of heart attack, waking up middle of night to run around so your heart rate doesnt go low, taking blood thinners if hematocrit goes to high, i thought the maintenance on a epo cycle was just to cumbersome?
thanx for the detailed ASreport! you cycle , triathlons? whats the top guys in europe using now? ever use heptaminol or inj ATP?
thanx for the detailed ASreport! you cycle , triathlons? whats the top guys in europe using now? ever use heptaminol or inj ATP?
I've never said that there was low sides with EPO...I said that the best AS stack (with low sides) to replace EPO was Eq+masteron.
You're right about EPO risks, and noone should use it if not checked ed by a physician (like lots of professionnal cyclist in Europe...).
I'm not cycling, I'm "only" a runner (mainly 800-1500m) and already 35 years old...so my main concern is to keep a good shape for a long time with a good physique...so AS can help. But nothing is a miracle drug. Everyone needs to train hard to have results, AS or not.
You're right about EPO risks, and noone should use it if not checked ed by a physician (like lots of professionnal cyclist in Europe...).
I'm not cycling, I'm "only" a runner (mainly 800-1500m) and already 35 years old...so my main concern is to keep a good shape for a long time with a good physique...so AS can help. But nothing is a miracle drug. Everyone needs to train hard to have results, AS or not.
Alright! Just started this board and found some endurance bros already! I am a semi pro mtber but have gotten in tri the last two years. AS and sups for eduros is alot tougher topic because of the volumes of cardio we must do. I have been lifting alot along with running and swimming and biking but in order to spare muscle AS are a must. My favorites:
1. Anavar baby!
2. Clen
3. T3
Winny was too hard on my joints which hurt my long runs. It also made me cramp. I wanna try some EQ and FIna at some point but don't want to add mass at all which could be a problem.
Look forward to yapping with you guys!
1. Anavar baby!
2. Clen
3. T3
Winny was too hard on my joints which hurt my long runs. It also made me cramp. I wanna try some EQ and FIna at some point but don't want to add mass at all which could be a problem.
Look forward to yapping with you guys!
You're right Oxjunkie...anavar gives you more strength and energy without size. I should have added it on my list. For triguy, it can replace the Eq on the mast/Eq stack. The only thing is that it's really more expensive ( and masteron is already expensive)and could be liver toxic at high doses (it's a 17aa).
I've never tried T3 and I'm not sure endurance athletes need it : we've already a low BF during all the year and we don't have to go below 6-8 % BF for a contest show.
I don't like clen. It did nothing for me : only shaking and sweating. I prefer -by far- ephedrine or ECA for a kickboost before training (for me ephedrine alone is best, cos I can't sleep when taking caffeine after 15pm...).
I've never tried T3 and I'm not sure endurance athletes need it : we've already a low BF during all the year and we don't have to go below 6-8 % BF for a contest show.
I don't like clen. It did nothing for me : only shaking and sweating. I prefer -by far- ephedrine or ECA for a kickboost before training (for me ephedrine alone is best, cos I can't sleep when taking caffeine after 15pm...).
HGH
Triguy, in answer to your question about guys in Europe. If and its a big if you can afford it, HGH seems to be popular. EPO too, but that's a very sophisticated arena as has been mentioned.
Did / does anybody find Deca helps them with sore joints
Especially if using Winny.
Realblaz, caught onto your post regarding Anadrol. Personally bit scared of it. Used Primoteston and blew up like a toad - got hammered over the hills cause of water retention. Do you think that 15mg of dbol ed would increase red blood cell count?
Triguy, in answer to your question about guys in Europe. If and its a big if you can afford it, HGH seems to be popular. EPO too, but that's a very sophisticated arena as has been mentioned.
Did / does anybody find Deca helps them with sore joints
Especially if using Winny.
Realblaz, caught onto your post regarding Anadrol. Personally bit scared of it. Used Primoteston and blew up like a toad - got hammered over the hills cause of water retention. Do you think that 15mg of dbol ed would increase red blood cell count?
Lots of triathletes here...Where are you from in Europe, Triman ?
About your Q : yes, deca helps with joints pain. I'm currently on a Eq/deca/anavar cycle. I had a periostite (I think it's the same word in english) at the beginning of the cycle and don't notice pain anymore now (week 6). In fact, I've added deca only to cure this pain and it really seems to work.
For the Dbol, I think you shouldn't notice really bloating with these doses, but take some proviron with it (50mg ed). It will keep all the water away, and it doesn't add stress to the liver (not a C17aa).
ALL the high androgenic AS are increasing RBC : Test, Adrol, Dbol, Masteron...Some studies shows that Dbol improves noticeably recovery times between high intensity workouts (for running). But AS are not equal for this. One more time, the best is Adrol, but with too much sides. You can try Dbol, but I think it's much better for a sprinter or a strength athlete than an endurance athlete (but at 15mg ed, you should't get too much size). If you compete for a 100m swimming/1km cycling/400m run, it could be a very good choice...just kidding. Take it for no more than 6 weeks, and tell us how it works. Will you stack it with something else ?
About your Q : yes, deca helps with joints pain. I'm currently on a Eq/deca/anavar cycle. I had a periostite (I think it's the same word in english) at the beginning of the cycle and don't notice pain anymore now (week 6). In fact, I've added deca only to cure this pain and it really seems to work.
For the Dbol, I think you shouldn't notice really bloating with these doses, but take some proviron with it (50mg ed). It will keep all the water away, and it doesn't add stress to the liver (not a C17aa).
ALL the high androgenic AS are increasing RBC : Test, Adrol, Dbol, Masteron...Some studies shows that Dbol improves noticeably recovery times between high intensity workouts (for running). But AS are not equal for this. One more time, the best is Adrol, but with too much sides. You can try Dbol, but I think it's much better for a sprinter or a strength athlete than an endurance athlete (but at 15mg ed, you should't get too much size). If you compete for a 100m swimming/1km cycling/400m run, it could be a very good choice...just kidding. Take it for no more than 6 weeks, and tell us how it works. Will you stack it with something else ?
i am interested in a dbol only cycle. Reports of massive increases in recovery & general good feeling all around feeling. Plus the increased RBC production is good. Im thinking the increased rbc production wou;ld force the body to produce more arteries & veins to accomodate the large blood volume.
Wouldnt i need something for sex drive while on dbol? I think arimidex would be better than proviron, but isnt proviron slightly androgenic? so maybe that would help with the sex drive.
HGH puts weight on me like crazy! but that was when i was bodybuilding. Just nervous about insulin sensitivity decreasing w/ hgh use.
Wouldnt i need something for sex drive while on dbol? I think arimidex would be better than proviron, but isnt proviron slightly androgenic? so maybe that would help with the sex drive.
HGH puts weight on me like crazy! but that was when i was bodybuilding. Just nervous about insulin sensitivity decreasing w/ hgh use.
Triguy, what are your stats? I don't think you would enjoy a dbol only cycle. Have you thought about Fina? Gains are typically only 5-10 lbs but strength is way up and bodyfat simultaneously down!! EQ increases redblood cell count and seems like it would be good too. Many stack Fina and Winstrol V for awesome results in strength and recovery with no sides.
Anybody competing (tri or cycling) on EQ? I am very interested in results.
Anybody competing (tri or cycling) on EQ? I am very interested in results.
Dbol etc
I am from Ireland although residing in UK for a while.
I guess then 50mg ed of A50, over a short time will not be too bad then on the weight if I use cutters and water stabilisers later? Just plenty of milk thistle hey!
With regard to sex drive and Dbol... Dbol will increase your test levels and hence should not be a problem. 15mg or 3 tabs per day should be OK. However whenever I have taken anything that increases test I always have Clomid or HCG on hand.
Take Dbol in separate doses - short acting.
Deca is the bogey with some guys. Deca disck seems common. Never taken more than 300mg pw so effects not so bad.
Right I am off to the pool.
Got some Naposim en-route..will keep you posted.
I am from Ireland although residing in UK for a while.
I guess then 50mg ed of A50, over a short time will not be too bad then on the weight if I use cutters and water stabilisers later? Just plenty of milk thistle hey!
With regard to sex drive and Dbol... Dbol will increase your test levels and hence should not be a problem. 15mg or 3 tabs per day should be OK. However whenever I have taken anything that increases test I always have Clomid or HCG on hand.
Take Dbol in separate doses - short acting.
Deca is the bogey with some guys. Deca disck seems common. Never taken more than 300mg pw so effects not so bad.
Right I am off to the pool.
Got some Naposim en-route..will keep you posted.
fhg43
New member
I've heard from some guys Eq and anavar increase RBC count.
Currently I am engaged in some seroius endurance training, weight training to increase leg strength, and general "dieting" or clean eating to reduce BF. It sounds like a lot, but everything fits together nicely.
I am taking in more protein and cutting back on useless carbs (which is hard when doing a lot of 6 hour rides). I have been supplementing with iron a few days a week. I have increased vitamin intake and take lots of vit C everyday and B complex. I am taking vit E on days I don't take iron (so they don't compete for absorption). I devised a nice 4AD cycle which has been helping with strength and recovery. I am also using androspray. I take saw palmetto to help with prostate inflammation from long rides and runs . After training I take glutamine and BCAAs w/whey protein drink. And most importantly I sleep all the time!!
I pretty much have the diet dialled in. I feel great for every ride and I am slowly losing BF and adding muscle. I was really interested in trying some AS, but I figured I should just train more and then the terrorist attack in NY took place and transporting stuff thru the mail and smuggling across the border got dicey. Plus here in the US stuff is difficult to get. I think it is easier to get in Europe.
I have raced bikes for a long time and next season I'll do my first Ironman tri. I did a bunch of tris last year and dabbled in MTB as well. I ordered some ATP and coenzymne Q10 as I've heard they are real good endurance supps.
FHG
Currently I am engaged in some seroius endurance training, weight training to increase leg strength, and general "dieting" or clean eating to reduce BF. It sounds like a lot, but everything fits together nicely.
I am taking in more protein and cutting back on useless carbs (which is hard when doing a lot of 6 hour rides). I have been supplementing with iron a few days a week. I have increased vitamin intake and take lots of vit C everyday and B complex. I am taking vit E on days I don't take iron (so they don't compete for absorption). I devised a nice 4AD cycle which has been helping with strength and recovery. I am also using androspray. I take saw palmetto to help with prostate inflammation from long rides and runs . After training I take glutamine and BCAAs w/whey protein drink. And most importantly I sleep all the time!!
I pretty much have the diet dialled in. I feel great for every ride and I am slowly losing BF and adding muscle. I was really interested in trying some AS, but I figured I should just train more and then the terrorist attack in NY took place and transporting stuff thru the mail and smuggling across the border got dicey. Plus here in the US stuff is difficult to get. I think it is easier to get in Europe.
I have raced bikes for a long time and next season I'll do my first Ironman tri. I did a bunch of tris last year and dabbled in MTB as well. I ordered some ATP and coenzymne Q10 as I've heard they are real good endurance supps.
FHG
Ironman
Did my first Ironman this year. 90% in the mind.
For what its worth, just break it down into stages in the mind.
Do you put a run in after the six hour rides?
Guess things must be difficult for you mail wise after those dispicable bastards murdered those people in NYC.
Things are not too bad in Europe - UK is not as strict as USA regarding possession.
Did my first Ironman this year. 90% in the mind.
For what its worth, just break it down into stages in the mind.
Do you put a run in after the six hour rides?
Guess things must be difficult for you mail wise after those dispicable bastards murdered those people in NYC.
Things are not too bad in Europe - UK is not as strict as USA regarding possession.
fhg43
New member
I am pretty psyched about the Ironman. The swim will be the hardest part as I am not a great swimmer. I have done a few runs after long rides. In a few weeks I have a big test; 5.5 hour ride and 2.5 hour run!! If that goes well I'll feel better about my chances in the Ironman; I'm shooting for a 10:30-11 time. In February I move back to Boulder and then I get to train and live at altitude (and cold weather).
FHG
FHG
Speedo Racer
New member
Clenbuterol is good. Studies have verified that clen increases muscle mass, decreases body fat and exerts metabolic effects that augment the endurance training effect. (Brooks et. al., 1996) Now, everyone reacts differently, and some people don't like it, most likely because at moderate to high doses there is a "speedy" effect.
In regards to injecting ATP... I'd like to know more about this. I would be interested to hear the results if anyone has tried it. My guess is that it would be similar to high doses of creatine??, as the ATP-CP cycle go hand in hand.
As for training, in the off season, I believe it best to decrease overall mileage and focus on anerobic threshold-type workouts, going at about 80 - 85% max effort for shorter distances with some all-out max speed work. Of course you'll want to throw in a distance day every once-in-a-while to keep the aerobic system tuned-up, but any gains you can make in raising VO2 max will definately pay off. Combine that with a great weight training program, especially for the legs, and you have yourself a pretty cool winter training schedule.
As Spring approaches, that will be the time to up the mileage again, and with your VO2 max up, even a point or two, and you'll notice you can go faster on those long hauls.
In regards to injecting ATP... I'd like to know more about this. I would be interested to hear the results if anyone has tried it. My guess is that it would be similar to high doses of creatine??, as the ATP-CP cycle go hand in hand.
As for training, in the off season, I believe it best to decrease overall mileage and focus on anerobic threshold-type workouts, going at about 80 - 85% max effort for shorter distances with some all-out max speed work. Of course you'll want to throw in a distance day every once-in-a-while to keep the aerobic system tuned-up, but any gains you can make in raising VO2 max will definately pay off. Combine that with a great weight training program, especially for the legs, and you have yourself a pretty cool winter training schedule.
As Spring approaches, that will be the time to up the mileage again, and with your VO2 max up, even a point or two, and you'll notice you can go faster on those long hauls.
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oxjunkie: fina & winny combo is too tuff on the joints for me.
so many choices!!!! ugh!!!!!
ok top choices for me are
EQ.
dbol-"documented huge increases in recovery"
anavar.
doin just winny now, would add primo but couldnt locate it.
next cycle EQ & a little test & maybe dbol.
diet, training, vitamin therapy all down pat. just the AS therapy is where i get confused. too many choices.
tellin you guys inj ATP!!!!!! just gotta find someone who has experience with it or real DR. knowledge
so many choices!!!! ugh!!!!!
ok top choices for me are
EQ.
dbol-"documented huge increases in recovery"
anavar.
doin just winny now, would add primo but couldnt locate it.
next cycle EQ & a little test & maybe dbol.
diet, training, vitamin therapy all down pat. just the AS therapy is where i get confused. too many choices.
tellin you guys inj ATP!!!!!! just gotta find someone who has experience with it or real DR. knowledge
Defeating Lactic Acid
Have any of you tried lactic acid buffers such as potassium bicarbonate? I have a copy of a study done by an MD where he claims administration of GBL decreased lactic acid production by 200-300%.
Have any of you tried lactic acid buffers such as potassium bicarbonate? I have a copy of a study done by an MD where he claims administration of GBL decreased lactic acid production by 200-300%.
GBL and Glycerol Laced Phos Fuel
I think one thing all endurance athletes need to keep in mind is adequate hydration. Is it possible at any point to consume repeatedly your own private 'cocktails' during competion? You could precisely measure water, GBL, lactic acid buffers, and glycerol to keep you well hydrated and reduce lactic acid production.
In the weeks trainning for competion boost RBC counts with AS. Immediately pre-competion hyperhydrate with glycerol and water. Take asprin to counteract the increase in blood viscosity from increased RBC count.
I think one thing all endurance athletes need to keep in mind is adequate hydration. Is it possible at any point to consume repeatedly your own private 'cocktails' during competion? You could precisely measure water, GBL, lactic acid buffers, and glycerol to keep you well hydrated and reduce lactic acid production.
In the weeks trainning for competion boost RBC counts with AS. Immediately pre-competion hyperhydrate with glycerol and water. Take asprin to counteract the increase in blood viscosity from increased RBC count.
triguy-
I keep hearing you talk about inj. ATP where are you getting this? I mean, is it an illegal steriod or are you getting it perscribed? and isint ATP only used for very short bursts? if thats true it wouldn't make much sense for an endurance athlete to use it? Im asking because I've never heard of anyone else using it. Let me know. Also, whats this GBL stuff? as for potassium bicarbonate I hear its real hard on the stomach and from what I've heard is only used by the trackies where I live. I used Glycerol a few times and I really liked it, tastes like shit but seemed to work. And jacob- you use aspirin before competition? what roids boost RBC counts? I think a liter of saline solution would be much more effective in thinning out the blood before a race. I dont know how available a saline solution would be for you though. and speedoracer- you should INCREASE mileage in the off season, you dont need to be doing any intensity just long slow rides in a HUGE gear is the best. Off season is the time to build your base and increase strength w/ both on and off the bike resistince training, when spring comes around then its time to pick up the intensity and get fast!! ok guys, good conversing with you, Im learning alot. Thanks
rider
I keep hearing you talk about inj. ATP where are you getting this? I mean, is it an illegal steriod or are you getting it perscribed? and isint ATP only used for very short bursts? if thats true it wouldn't make much sense for an endurance athlete to use it? Im asking because I've never heard of anyone else using it. Let me know. Also, whats this GBL stuff? as for potassium bicarbonate I hear its real hard on the stomach and from what I've heard is only used by the trackies where I live. I used Glycerol a few times and I really liked it, tastes like shit but seemed to work. And jacob- you use aspirin before competition? what roids boost RBC counts? I think a liter of saline solution would be much more effective in thinning out the blood before a race. I dont know how available a saline solution would be for you though. and speedoracer- you should INCREASE mileage in the off season, you dont need to be doing any intensity just long slow rides in a HUGE gear is the best. Off season is the time to build your base and increase strength w/ both on and off the bike resistince training, when spring comes around then its time to pick up the intensity and get fast!! ok guys, good conversing with you, Im learning alot. Thanks
rider
..if we keep this up maybe we'll get our own ENDURANCE BOARD
.......AS increase blood cell count
EQ,test, anadrol, dbol,high androgenic AS,
primo will also increase rbc, its used clinically to treat anemia.
On the atp. inj theres slow an long acting. I think i have the long acting (hoping), i got from an australian vet co. do a web search on vet + inj atp. Also tyson's supplements sells oral atp. Lets all work together and try an get in contact with a pro cycling team DR. someone like that could really help. ill keep you guys posted on my efforts.
do the long slow low intensity during the winter base months but 1x a week do a anaerobic workouts so as not to lose those fast twitch speed producing fibers
.......AS increase blood cell count
EQ,test, anadrol, dbol,high androgenic AS,
primo will also increase rbc, its used clinically to treat anemia.
On the atp. inj theres slow an long acting. I think i have the long acting (hoping), i got from an australian vet co. do a web search on vet + inj atp. Also tyson's supplements sells oral atp. Lets all work together and try an get in contact with a pro cycling team DR. someone like that could really help. ill keep you guys posted on my efforts.
do the long slow low intensity during the winter base months but 1x a week do a anaerobic workouts so as not to lose those fast twitch speed producing fibers
ATP etc
ATP is the energy substrate used for muscular activity. It is stored in short supply within the muscle cell, during intense exertion the stored ATP is used because there is insufficient oxigen available to 'burn' fat.
I have never used asprin for endurance enhancement, but assume since it decreases platelet aggregation that it makes blood less 'clumpy' or 'sticky', thus decreasing viscosity.
The problem with evaluating performance enhancements for me is that I am a wrestler. I don't perform work with standardized resistances and intensities. Guys who run indoor track are probably the best barometers for guaging the effectiveness of performance enhancers.
ATP is the energy substrate used for muscular activity. It is stored in short supply within the muscle cell, during intense exertion the stored ATP is used because there is insufficient oxigen available to 'burn' fat.
I have never used asprin for endurance enhancement, but assume since it decreases platelet aggregation that it makes blood less 'clumpy' or 'sticky', thus decreasing viscosity.
The problem with evaluating performance enhancements for me is that I am a wrestler. I don't perform work with standardized resistances and intensities. Guys who run indoor track are probably the best barometers for guaging the effectiveness of performance enhancers.
fhg43
New member
Oops-it took me longer than I thought (went to lunch), but I started an endurance training thread on the Training Discussion board. I figured it would draw more endurance athletes in and we'd get more view points.
On ATP: Your body ultimately breaks down fat, carbs and protein (1g fat=132 ATP and 1g protein or carb=36 ATP, I think) into ATP so you can always use ATP. I am about to start taking an ATP supplement so I'll let you know how it works. I am pretty tuned into the ole motor so I can tell when my performance is aided by stuff. Being a guinea pig is fun.
Asprin will thin blood and I guess ibuprofen will also. Both can also take some of the "edge" off physical pain you may feel while training or competing (like from injuries and stuff). It does nothing to help lactic acid burn though. Pyruvate works well for that-it works real well. I have found creatine to work well for long workouts, but you have to take a lot like 30-50g(!) the night before. My legs felt "pumped" and I could really feel a difference in my muscular strength. However I think that if you load like this too often it looses its effect.
FHG
On ATP: Your body ultimately breaks down fat, carbs and protein (1g fat=132 ATP and 1g protein or carb=36 ATP, I think) into ATP so you can always use ATP. I am about to start taking an ATP supplement so I'll let you know how it works. I am pretty tuned into the ole motor so I can tell when my performance is aided by stuff. Being a guinea pig is fun.
Asprin will thin blood and I guess ibuprofen will also. Both can also take some of the "edge" off physical pain you may feel while training or competing (like from injuries and stuff). It does nothing to help lactic acid burn though. Pyruvate works well for that-it works real well. I have found creatine to work well for long workouts, but you have to take a lot like 30-50g(!) the night before. My legs felt "pumped" and I could really feel a difference in my muscular strength. However I think that if you load like this too often it looses its effect.
FHG
triguy- no doubt GH will increase your ability to recover, you'll need to cycle it with insulin as when GH levels are up insulin levels are down and vice versa, it's also really really expensive. And obviously you can cycle it but from what I've heard it's best to just stay on a small amount all racing season. Use glutamine and argine to help increase GH production. Has anyone ever tried one of those GH pills? like Pinnacle's Gro-Tropin, they say it's supposed to increase GH levels by some serious amounts, im sure most of it is marketing but I'd be interested in seeing if anyone has had any sucess with it or anything like it. triguy- def. let us know how the creatine works, and good luck finding a team doctor willing to talk to you, our team doctor will hardly talk to us about drugs, he's awesome for talking about supplements and training but clams up (and for good reason) when we ask about illegal stuff. Oh well, hes got a family and stuff so he's not into taking any risks like that. Good talkin to you all.
rider
rider
fhg43
New member
rider-
I looked into some of those GH stimulators and most everyone (on the Elite supplement and Anabolic board) said they don't work. GH needs to be stacked with an anabolic as well for it to work best. Glutamine works really well for me and that is a GH stimulator. Netrition.com has info about these GH releasers. Most of them are powders and there's a usually an AM and PM formula. ISS Research had a good one. I may try one in January as my training builds up.
Has anyone tried those ecdysterones? Some of these are supposed to have anabolic effects and promote erythropoiesis.
FHG
I looked into some of those GH stimulators and most everyone (on the Elite supplement and Anabolic board) said they don't work. GH needs to be stacked with an anabolic as well for it to work best. Glutamine works really well for me and that is a GH stimulator. Netrition.com has info about these GH releasers. Most of them are powders and there's a usually an AM and PM formula. ISS Research had a good one. I may try one in January as my training builds up.
Has anyone tried those ecdysterones? Some of these are supposed to have anabolic effects and promote erythropoiesis.
FHG
Pyruvate
How are you guys using pyruvate? Is it a calcium, potassium, or sodium salt? Is it a mixture?
Anyone try the ribose supplements? If so what kind of feedback do you give them?
How are you guys using pyruvate? Is it a calcium, potassium, or sodium salt? Is it a mixture?
Anyone try the ribose supplements? If so what kind of feedback do you give them?
fhg43
New member
I take Twinlabs Pyruvate Fuel which is calcium pyruvate monohydrate. Dosage is 3x750mg before really intense efforts. I works really well as a lactate acid buffer and save it for special occassions.
Haven't tried ribose yet. I might. Currently I ingest more pills than an AIDS patient!
FHG
Haven't tried ribose yet. I might. Currently I ingest more pills than an AIDS patient!
FHG
RIDER: I keep mentioning inj ATP cause my old Bodybuilding diet guru said it would aid me. But your right it might be too short acting, im still looking into how to use it properly. * right b4 the sprint to the finsih why not pop a couple oral atp tabs an see how ya feel? *rider you a pro?
JACOB: i use pyruvate & ribose only on race days, im a supplement whore so its hard to see what doesnt & does work.
AS CYCLE: gained 5 pds of muscle . never thought id be upset at that. The gh does increase your recovery but i think its predominantly at the muscle cell & minimally at the nervous system. if us endurance athletes can find something that aids in our nervous system recovering that would kick ass. Im trying to sleep 8 hrs a night then 1.5 nap in day to aid my NS to heal.
JACOB: i use pyruvate & ribose only on race days, im a supplement whore so its hard to see what doesnt & does work.
AS CYCLE: gained 5 pds of muscle . never thought id be upset at that. The gh does increase your recovery but i think its predominantly at the muscle cell & minimally at the nervous system. if us endurance athletes can find something that aids in our nervous system recovering that would kick ass. Im trying to sleep 8 hrs a night then 1.5 nap in day to aid my NS to heal.
Nootropics For Nerves
Have you used any nootropics for nerve recovery? Perhaps piracetam or hydergine? I have little experience with these, but much interest.
In reguards to ribose- is it like creatine? Do you need to load it for optimum results?
Have you used any nootropics for nerve recovery? Perhaps piracetam or hydergine? I have little experience with these, but much interest.
In reguards to ribose- is it like creatine? Do you need to load it for optimum results?
triguy- yeh im a pro on the MTB and a 1 on the road.. next year I dont know how much MTB ill be doing.. im 19 years old so im not quite at the level to make alot of money in the dirt so I may have to go road, thats where the money is. I just graduated from high school and Im not going to college just yet so my parents are puttin the pressure on for me to make some serious money. I hear ya on throwin down a few tabs right before the sprint.. but just think of all the shit you'd get, maybe mix em up in a special bottle and down alot of it before the finish. Keep us posted on how the stuff works. You all seem to be in favor of pyruvate, I've heard of it but never tried it.. do you think it works? I used to be really into the supplements but kind of got burned out on taking so many pills, I dont use anything right now and didnt all of last year. I'd like to get back into it though, as im sure it will only help. I think ribose is more of a body building product, but let us know how that goes as well. Whats up with this nerve recovery? I didnt know they could be fatigued.. all i ever cared about was that my legs recovered.. damn, more things to worry about. seriously though, if any of you have any more info or any web sites about nervous system recovery let me know. How do you tell when your nervous system isin't recovered anyway? Thanks guys, I haven't been in this game too long so Im still learning the basics. Train hard.
rider
rider
nitric oxide tanks! hmmmmmmmmmm
Nitric Oxide Helps Humans Adapt to High Altitudes
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - People living at extremely high altitudes
produce higher concentrations of a compound that facilitates oxygen
flow throughout the body, researchers report.
The compound, nitric oxide (NO), is produced in the lungs and helps
blood vessels to dilate, thereby allowing oxygen-carrying blood to
flow more freely. ****NO also boosts the oxygen-carrying capacity of
hemoglobin, a component of red blood cells.*****
The findings, which are based on information from people in Bolivia
and Tibet, shed light on how humans adapt to high altitudes, according
to Dr. Cynthia M. Beall from Case Western Reserve University in
Cleveland, Ohio, and colleagues.
``The similar responses of these two geographically separate
high-altitude populations underlines the importance of NO for life
under hypoxic stress,'' they write.
Hypoxia is a severe lack of oxygen that causes symptoms ranging from
mental confusion to a life-threatening swelling of the brain.
According to the findings in the November 22 issue of Nature, people
who live at very high altitudes adapt by producing more NO than
individuals living at sea level. The researchers measured
concentrations of NO exhaled by 105 healthy nonsmokers living in Tibet
at 4,200 meters above sea level, in 144 people living in Bolivia at
3,900 meters above sea level, and in 33 people living at sea level in
the US.
The Tibetans were found to have more than twice the concentration of
NO that US citizens had. Similarly, the concentration of NO exhaled by
the Bolivians was 25% greater than concentrations exhaled by US
individuals.
``The functional advantage of high NO concentrations in the lungs
seems to be to offset ambient hypoxia by enhancing the uptake of
oxygen from the lungs, which presumably improves delivery of oxygen to
peripheral tissues,'' Beall and colleagues conclude.
Nitric Oxide Helps Humans Adapt to High Altitudes
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - People living at extremely high altitudes
produce higher concentrations of a compound that facilitates oxygen
flow throughout the body, researchers report.
The compound, nitric oxide (NO), is produced in the lungs and helps
blood vessels to dilate, thereby allowing oxygen-carrying blood to
flow more freely. ****NO also boosts the oxygen-carrying capacity of
hemoglobin, a component of red blood cells.*****
The findings, which are based on information from people in Bolivia
and Tibet, shed light on how humans adapt to high altitudes, according
to Dr. Cynthia M. Beall from Case Western Reserve University in
Cleveland, Ohio, and colleagues.
``The similar responses of these two geographically separate
high-altitude populations underlines the importance of NO for life
under hypoxic stress,'' they write.
Hypoxia is a severe lack of oxygen that causes symptoms ranging from
mental confusion to a life-threatening swelling of the brain.
According to the findings in the November 22 issue of Nature, people
who live at very high altitudes adapt by producing more NO than
individuals living at sea level. The researchers measured
concentrations of NO exhaled by 105 healthy nonsmokers living in Tibet
at 4,200 meters above sea level, in 144 people living in Bolivia at
3,900 meters above sea level, and in 33 people living at sea level in
the US.
The Tibetans were found to have more than twice the concentration of
NO that US citizens had. Similarly, the concentration of NO exhaled by
the Bolivians was 25% greater than concentrations exhaled by US
individuals.
``The functional advantage of high NO concentrations in the lungs
seems to be to offset ambient hypoxia by enhancing the uptake of
oxygen from the lungs, which presumably improves delivery of oxygen to
peripheral tissues,'' Beall and colleagues conclude.
Then can I pop viagra pre-competition for a performance boost? Perhaps sniff some amyl nitrate?
post surgery programme
Wuz up!?!? Hey, I just got done with arthroscopic knee surgery and recovery has been quick, but ineed to be in the gym and on the bike! I know quite a bit of stuff, so if you all need to know anything about anything, lemme know, i just don't know too much about the "underground" scene yet. Anyhow, I'll thankyou before hand for sharing your vast plurethura of knowledge.
Here's my deal. I'm a college student 5'9" I weigh 148 lbs. 10% bf (as of today) I've just cat'd up to 2's. My knee surgery was a result of a nasty crah I had last summer and I'm sufferin'. I know I'm capable of bustin' on the scene in '02 whippin' ass, I just need a little help. I was thinking D-bol (once I get mobility of my L knee) and then some clean -up with some clen. Where I'm from everyone yaks about winny, but I think i'd benefit from big-time muscle gains.
Ciao,
Rolf
Wuz up!?!? Hey, I just got done with arthroscopic knee surgery and recovery has been quick, but ineed to be in the gym and on the bike! I know quite a bit of stuff, so if you all need to know anything about anything, lemme know, i just don't know too much about the "underground" scene yet. Anyhow, I'll thankyou before hand for sharing your vast plurethura of knowledge.
Here's my deal. I'm a college student 5'9" I weigh 148 lbs. 10% bf (as of today) I've just cat'd up to 2's. My knee surgery was a result of a nasty crah I had last summer and I'm sufferin'. I know I'm capable of bustin' on the scene in '02 whippin' ass, I just need a little help. I was thinking D-bol (once I get mobility of my L knee) and then some clean -up with some clen. Where I'm from everyone yaks about winny, but I think i'd benefit from big-time muscle gains.
Ciao,
Rolf
What's up nice to see some endurance athletes on here!
I think dbol would be a good choice if used with arimidex (anti-estrogen), dbol is known for greatly increasing ones recuperatrive abilities. Winny im finding out isnt really helpful with recovery (at this point in my traiining i need something to really boost my recovery, gotta get the miles in my body), added Gh an insulin and it boosted recovery.
In 1.5 months EQ, dbol, proviron, arimidex. Winny id use for racing. Training go with the harder stuff.
I think dbol would be a good choice if used with arimidex (anti-estrogen), dbol is known for greatly increasing ones recuperatrive abilities. Winny im finding out isnt really helpful with recovery (at this point in my traiining i need something to really boost my recovery, gotta get the miles in my body), added Gh an insulin and it boosted recovery.
In 1.5 months EQ, dbol, proviron, arimidex. Winny id use for racing. Training go with the harder stuff.
like a virgin
Hey ,
I'm about to start my first cycle. I've got experience with inj plenty of VB12 for reco. and clenbuterol and I know a somewhat little bit of stuff about the shit I am planning on putting in my body. I kinda like injecting myself with stuff. With the aforementioned stuff though, my dr. knew about it and he ok'd my doses. Now I'm in college and he's not around and my teammate's, roomate's, training partner's words are somewhat coinciding, but they are of the old school(i know there's much to be learned from them, and i have) and don't particularly want guys i race with to know what i'm on either. I trust them because they're on the juice too, but I just don't want them to know, blah, blah...
I wanted you all's educated opinion on my situation and what I should do with it. Currently, I'm about 1.5 weeks out of arthroscopic knee surgery. Doc says i should be normal in about 1 mo. I'm already off of the crutches, when i'm supposed to still be in a wheelchair. I'm a f*cking stick and i need a 6 cylinder instead of my two stroke. I weigh 148 @ 10%BF. Last year I rode approx. 700 hrs and that's including weights. I race 90% Usually in the spring I am racing great, but as the season continues, I lose my "natural" gains from the weight room and what it boils down to is that I'm weak physicallly thus making me weak me mentally which is getting old really fast. I have a pretty sweet cardio engine, but it's not hooked up to a very nice genetically gifted drivetrain(my dad was a drunk and a couch potatoe all his damn life). I was thinking Dbol for when I start doing weights in about 1 mo. and then winny for racing and some clen to prep myself for the really hot summer. Trouble is, my advice has been to take as if I were 25+, 160+ lbs., and most already has big enough of a power output. Also, my Dbol cycle was recommended to me by a training partner as 1 tab for 5 days on 1st week, 2 for 5 days on second, 3 for 5 on third and then back down. Sounds a little un-scientific and rudimentary if you ask me. I've looked at a lot of these bodybuilders stacks and cycles, but I'm not sure if our goals are the same, but I know you guys have somewhat of an idea of what I'm after, and that's why I've asked. I know too I DO NOT have have problem recovering unless I've been around a bunch of sick little kids or something. I start racing in March and I plan on peaking for my first race in mid-april. I also had just cat'd up to 2's when I tore up my knee. I wanna whip ass and keep whipin' ass.
Any sug?
Thanks a head of time...,
Rolf
Hey ,
I'm about to start my first cycle. I've got experience with inj plenty of VB12 for reco. and clenbuterol and I know a somewhat little bit of stuff about the shit I am planning on putting in my body. I kinda like injecting myself with stuff. With the aforementioned stuff though, my dr. knew about it and he ok'd my doses. Now I'm in college and he's not around and my teammate's, roomate's, training partner's words are somewhat coinciding, but they are of the old school(i know there's much to be learned from them, and i have) and don't particularly want guys i race with to know what i'm on either. I trust them because they're on the juice too, but I just don't want them to know, blah, blah...
I wanted you all's educated opinion on my situation and what I should do with it. Currently, I'm about 1.5 weeks out of arthroscopic knee surgery. Doc says i should be normal in about 1 mo. I'm already off of the crutches, when i'm supposed to still be in a wheelchair. I'm a f*cking stick and i need a 6 cylinder instead of my two stroke. I weigh 148 @ 10%BF. Last year I rode approx. 700 hrs and that's including weights. I race 90% Usually in the spring I am racing great, but as the season continues, I lose my "natural" gains from the weight room and what it boils down to is that I'm weak physicallly thus making me weak me mentally which is getting old really fast. I have a pretty sweet cardio engine, but it's not hooked up to a very nice genetically gifted drivetrain(my dad was a drunk and a couch potatoe all his damn life). I was thinking Dbol for when I start doing weights in about 1 mo. and then winny for racing and some clen to prep myself for the really hot summer. Trouble is, my advice has been to take as if I were 25+, 160+ lbs., and most already has big enough of a power output. Also, my Dbol cycle was recommended to me by a training partner as 1 tab for 5 days on 1st week, 2 for 5 days on second, 3 for 5 on third and then back down. Sounds a little un-scientific and rudimentary if you ask me. I've looked at a lot of these bodybuilders stacks and cycles, but I'm not sure if our goals are the same, but I know you guys have somewhat of an idea of what I'm after, and that's why I've asked. I know too I DO NOT have have problem recovering unless I've been around a bunch of sick little kids or something. I start racing in March and I plan on peaking for my first race in mid-april. I also had just cat'd up to 2's when I tore up my knee. I wanna whip ass and keep whipin' ass.
Any sug?
Thanks a head of time...,
Rolf
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here is my advice- WORK HARD! dont start using juice yet, you are too young. When you at your genetic best, then consider illegal supplements. You'll get a hell of alot more out of the juice if you wait. What you need to do if you want to be fast is ride your bike, dont stress the weights.. you are a bike racer not a weight lifter. Do weights 2x a week for 1.5-2 months, your strength should come from on the bike, put it in the 53x15 and do 4 hour rides. That'll get you strong. Supplements are not the hear all end all to athletic performance, I raced very well last season on nothing but hard work and extran in my water bottles. Also, lose some weight before you start racing, get the BF % down to 5-6% even lower for target events. Hope this helps. Good luck.
rider
rider
fhg43
New member
rolfy-
I agree with rider. You don't need to juice to be a good cat 2. I upgraded from 2 to 1 on nothing more than hardwork, bread, and water!!! I know tons of pros who are natural. If you put in 20hrs a week on the bike this winter you'll be really good. Juice is really only for those guys who are trying to make a living doing this. Here is some advice:
1. Sleep alot-minimum 8hrs
2. Eat really good-become a frickin nutrition PhD learn how to manipulate your natural GH and insulin levels and build muscle thru diet
3. Take some good vitamins-seriously you need more vitamins than a normal person (especially B C and iron)
4. Big miles-Wed or Thurs, Sat, and Sun ride 6 hours on 3 of those days or all 4!
5. Learn to SUFFER-racing is all psychology sometimes if you just keep suffering you end up outlasting guys way stronger than-they have weak minds
6. Get skinny-get that BF down. When you are Euro skinny everything is better-sprinting, climbing, TTs.
7. Ride with the best guys you can-don't do the weenie club rides. Befriend the local pro or kickass amateur national team guy and ride w/him. You can learn so much stuff from haning around these guys that you never would from the clubbies.
There are plenty of natural supps you can take that will help. You can private mail or email me. Talk to rider too. He has gone pretty far in the sport and can give you some insight. But I'd say definitely stay away from the D-Bol until you've reached your body's limit and right now you are pretty young and new to racing so you haven't even explored your bodies limit.
Always here for you new younger racers.
FHG
I agree with rider. You don't need to juice to be a good cat 2. I upgraded from 2 to 1 on nothing more than hardwork, bread, and water!!! I know tons of pros who are natural. If you put in 20hrs a week on the bike this winter you'll be really good. Juice is really only for those guys who are trying to make a living doing this. Here is some advice:
1. Sleep alot-minimum 8hrs
2. Eat really good-become a frickin nutrition PhD learn how to manipulate your natural GH and insulin levels and build muscle thru diet
3. Take some good vitamins-seriously you need more vitamins than a normal person (especially B C and iron)
4. Big miles-Wed or Thurs, Sat, and Sun ride 6 hours on 3 of those days or all 4!
5. Learn to SUFFER-racing is all psychology sometimes if you just keep suffering you end up outlasting guys way stronger than-they have weak minds
6. Get skinny-get that BF down. When you are Euro skinny everything is better-sprinting, climbing, TTs.
7. Ride with the best guys you can-don't do the weenie club rides. Befriend the local pro or kickass amateur national team guy and ride w/him. You can learn so much stuff from haning around these guys that you never would from the clubbies.
There are plenty of natural supps you can take that will help. You can private mail or email me. Talk to rider too. He has gone pretty far in the sport and can give you some insight. But I'd say definitely stay away from the D-Bol until you've reached your body's limit and right now you are pretty young and new to racing so you haven't even explored your bodies limit.
Always here for you new younger racers.
FHG
clenbuterol and adderall
hey,
5-6%? good god!?!? it was hard as hell getting to where i am now! any of you guys think it would be a really bad idea to mix adderall and clenbuterol? i thought i didn't eat enough already, and I couldn't imagine eating less and still be able to gain muscle. I don't have exact numbers, but i know if i just eat like 3250 Kcal/day, I will lose weight, but it's a roller coaster type effect too because my body tends to go through really bad withdrawl symptoms if i'm not eating enough and i din't take my 20mg of addy that mourning. With one of the polar s510's it said i burned 4750 Kcal/day while on addy and a 30 min ride to work on a hot july day. My withdrawl symptoms are just sleeping. I can't do anything but sleep. I take depakote at night to aleviate the "focused effect". i never take the addy the mourning of long rides important training rides or races, should i though? it sometimes makes me sweat a lot when i'm coming down off of the shit. If any of you all ever have to stay up late or get something done at work or haven't even ever tried addy, you should... it's bloody awesome! 5 mg's will automatically increase your iq 20 points.
aight!
rolf
hey,
5-6%? good god!?!? it was hard as hell getting to where i am now! any of you guys think it would be a really bad idea to mix adderall and clenbuterol? i thought i didn't eat enough already, and I couldn't imagine eating less and still be able to gain muscle. I don't have exact numbers, but i know if i just eat like 3250 Kcal/day, I will lose weight, but it's a roller coaster type effect too because my body tends to go through really bad withdrawl symptoms if i'm not eating enough and i din't take my 20mg of addy that mourning. With one of the polar s510's it said i burned 4750 Kcal/day while on addy and a 30 min ride to work on a hot july day. My withdrawl symptoms are just sleeping. I can't do anything but sleep. I take depakote at night to aleviate the "focused effect". i never take the addy the mourning of long rides important training rides or races, should i though? it sometimes makes me sweat a lot when i'm coming down off of the shit. If any of you all ever have to stay up late or get something done at work or haven't even ever tried addy, you should... it's bloody awesome! 5 mg's will automatically increase your iq 20 points.
aight!
rolf
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never heard of adderral. whatis and what it do? then i might be able to answer som4e ques.
Guys are right, know what your doing thru & thru (diet, nutrition!!!!). Also wait (I hit the AS at 26 after 8 years of hardcore natural bb), you also dont hit your endurance genetic peak till 30's anyway.
Im adding proviron this week,(winny 50 mg ed, 3 i;u's gh w/ 2 i;u;'s insulin ed) ill keep you posted on my recovery gains.
winny i think is just for compeition phase. wouldnt do it again during base
Guys are right, know what your doing thru & thru (diet, nutrition!!!!). Also wait (I hit the AS at 26 after 8 years of hardcore natural bb), you also dont hit your endurance genetic peak till 30's anyway.
Im adding proviron this week,(winny 50 mg ed, 3 i;u's gh w/ 2 i;u;'s insulin ed) ill keep you posted on my recovery gains.
winny i think is just for compeition phase. wouldnt do it again during base
FHG- Thank you for the kind words.. and Rolf, I really dont know too much about adderall and athletic performance but it sounds like stimulant, is that true? do you find your resting heart rate to be higher while on it? I know its supposed to help you focus, but you say it helps you stay awake? if thats the case I'd be a bit hesitant to mix it with Clen. Im my opinion you dont even need to take Clen. it wont do anything hard work cant, plus its hard on the kidneys. Eat less than you burn and you'll lose weight, I know many pro's who eat 2000kcal a day while riding 20-25hrs a week. They dont do it all year long, but a few weeks out from a major goal and as long as you dont go overboard, those last few lbs. make a huge difference. One thing I like to do to shed some weight is to ride first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. It's hard to do at first and you'll feel like death, but you'll soon train your body to burn excess fat insted of carbs and you'll feel fine. Give it a try. Dont do any of this quite yet however, its perfectly healthy to gain a few lbs. in the off season, god knows i've put on my fair share! start sheding weight a month or two out from your first races. Be careful getting super skinny, I stayed with a kid named Matt Kelly for a few races a in 1999 and 2000 and he was absolutley fanatical about his weight, hed eat less than 1000kcal a day, most of it coming from pickles and ketchup packets. Was it healthy? no, was he the the first junior to score top 10 finishes in Norba National MTB races, yes. Is he still racing, no. My point is, lose weight.. but dont go too far. 5-6% is a good percentage to try and hold all season, I know when I get really skinny I sleep A TON! but it sure does help. Good luck and train hard. Follow FHG's tips as well, he obviously knows his stuff. Regards.
rider
rider
JUST MY OPIONIN
I wouldnt drop calories to lose weight. Keep them high!!!!! Calories is what feeds your body's hormonal,nervous,circulatory systems so they may recover. Also where are you gonna get the energy to train with? adderal & clen!? hell no!. Clen has its uses as a fat burner, but make sure your diet & training are key first. Rider was right on! when he said to train first thing in morning on a empty stomach!!!!!! That is the key time to burn fat as a energy source. your bodys carb stores are depleted from the night before(also the day before, stop eating complex carbs by 5pm, eat protein w/veggies, fats only after 5pm.....no fat with the meal b4 bed). Waking up with empty carb stores an training on an empty stomach is key to burn fat.! Also take in carbs at the right times (first 2 meals after training take the majority of your days carbs) also you would be surprised that you dont need massive amounts of carbs as magazines say! Get your energy also from good fats(avacado, peanut butter, olive oil)
my diet is perfect ( i think so), so that leaves me only to worry about training( gotta love coach's) and supplements
ephedrine,caffeine,aspirin kick ass
clen ( only for two weeks)
*not the cake! just icing on the cake these are
*also do more longgggggg rides at a lower HR to maximize amount of fat burning. higher HR's less fat burnage, more carb burnage
I wouldnt drop calories to lose weight. Keep them high!!!!! Calories is what feeds your body's hormonal,nervous,circulatory systems so they may recover. Also where are you gonna get the energy to train with? adderal & clen!? hell no!. Clen has its uses as a fat burner, but make sure your diet & training are key first. Rider was right on! when he said to train first thing in morning on a empty stomach!!!!!! That is the key time to burn fat as a energy source. your bodys carb stores are depleted from the night before(also the day before, stop eating complex carbs by 5pm, eat protein w/veggies, fats only after 5pm.....no fat with the meal b4 bed). Waking up with empty carb stores an training on an empty stomach is key to burn fat.! Also take in carbs at the right times (first 2 meals after training take the majority of your days carbs) also you would be surprised that you dont need massive amounts of carbs as magazines say! Get your energy also from good fats(avacado, peanut butter, olive oil)
my diet is perfect ( i think so), so that leaves me only to worry about training( gotta love coach's) and supplements
ephedrine,caffeine,aspirin kick ass
clen ( only for two weeks)
*not the cake! just icing on the cake these are
*also do more longgggggg rides at a lower HR to maximize amount of fat burning. higher HR's less fat burnage, more carb burnage
yo momma so fat if she fell out of a tree, she'd go straight to hell.
hey,
your responses are awesome! I've been doing the long 5+ hour rides for the past several years and i do start the season very lean. I know for a fact i started last march with 8% and I looked really sucked up. Does this dieting on the other hand inhibit your body's ability to build muscle and recover properly? I know you guys have probably seen me at somewhere like superweek or something out there, but point being, I'm a damn stick with barely any muscle. It has been recomended that I eat jars of peanut butter. Although, as a matter of fact, before I was even 16 I was already dieting so hard for long course swimming, I had passed out under a coaches supervision at least twice while living in our apmts. I started swimming at the tender age of 7 and quit when I was 17 and started racing when i was 12 on the mtb, but then started really racing on the road when I was 16. I know my body is pretty max'd out right now as far as it being as healthy as it can get and I don't think i'll get much faster, just smarter and more confidant (confidance is my biggest issue). so, which way should I go? if dieting will inhibit my bodies ability to make more muscle, then I don't think I will diet, because I need all that I can get. 90% of the races around here are crits and end in a sprint 4/5's of the time. I need to be a freddy rodriquez, which after meeting him, i think is realistic. Also, our sponsor has asked that we perform well in a list of certain events, which are crits like athens and includes athens. Racing in there last year with the big boys was insane. Thank god I wrecked in the 15th or so lap. Athens woke me up and told me what i wanted. I've tried eating in excess of 100g's of fish and oil protein while still dieting and i don't seem to benefit from that.
Also, the adderal does not seem to affect my resting hr like it used to. I wake up @ 47 now, but a year ago, i woke up @ like 90. It's a polyamphetimine and I couldn't live with out it. It also might be why i have to eat so much.
Ciao,
Rolf
hey,
your responses are awesome! I've been doing the long 5+ hour rides for the past several years and i do start the season very lean. I know for a fact i started last march with 8% and I looked really sucked up. Does this dieting on the other hand inhibit your body's ability to build muscle and recover properly? I know you guys have probably seen me at somewhere like superweek or something out there, but point being, I'm a damn stick with barely any muscle. It has been recomended that I eat jars of peanut butter. Although, as a matter of fact, before I was even 16 I was already dieting so hard for long course swimming, I had passed out under a coaches supervision at least twice while living in our apmts. I started swimming at the tender age of 7 and quit when I was 17 and started racing when i was 12 on the mtb, but then started really racing on the road when I was 16. I know my body is pretty max'd out right now as far as it being as healthy as it can get and I don't think i'll get much faster, just smarter and more confidant (confidance is my biggest issue). so, which way should I go? if dieting will inhibit my bodies ability to make more muscle, then I don't think I will diet, because I need all that I can get. 90% of the races around here are crits and end in a sprint 4/5's of the time. I need to be a freddy rodriquez, which after meeting him, i think is realistic. Also, our sponsor has asked that we perform well in a list of certain events, which are crits like athens and includes athens. Racing in there last year with the big boys was insane. Thank god I wrecked in the 15th or so lap. Athens woke me up and told me what i wanted. I've tried eating in excess of 100g's of fish and oil protein while still dieting and i don't seem to benefit from that.
Also, the adderal does not seem to affect my resting hr like it used to. I wake up @ 47 now, but a year ago, i woke up @ like 90. It's a polyamphetimine and I couldn't live with out it. It also might be why i have to eat so much.
Ciao,
Rolf
years of using the juice, no wonder these old dudes take so much...
How profound is the lack of stimulus after the prolonged use of the juice? If one were to take it to recover from an injury now, and then not touch it again until it was "needed" we'll say like 4 years, would the secondary use not be as beneficial? I'm not exactly sure of how well something like sus 250 or dbol would keep its results and help heal an appendage.
How profound is the lack of stimulus after the prolonged use of the juice? If one were to take it to recover from an injury now, and then not touch it again until it was "needed" we'll say like 4 years, would the secondary use not be as beneficial? I'm not exactly sure of how well something like sus 250 or dbol would keep its results and help heal an appendage.
fhg43
New member
triguy et all-
Your diet ideas are good. But to be a competetive elite bike racer like 'rolfaldag' wants to be (that sounds funny cause as you guys may know "Rolf Aldag" is a pro on Telecom and if I am correct he medalled at the Olympics in...'88!!-Old school baby yeah!!) you must be skinny. POWER to WEIGHT ratio; how many watts can you generate per kilo of body mass? You have to work both ends; you have to train for power and lose the most BF you can. 10% don't cut it. Plus think of the power you'd have if you could generate 5watts/kg and then you lost 2-3 kilos, but no power, your power to weight ratio or watts/kg goes up! Example: you weigh 70kg and generate 350watts=350w/70kg=5w/kg. If you lose 3kg and no power, 350w/67kg=5.22w/kg. This doesn't seem like much but it's huge; the difference between a field finish and top 5 in a breakaway. When you are lean everything is better: sprinting, TT, and especially climbing!
Most athletes consume more than they need to. In fact top guys only take in as many calories as they expend when prepping for races. And these guys are frickin skinny. rider is right alot of guys eat way less when trying to lose weight before major races. It seems contrary to all we know about diet and training, but it works and doesn't harm you...most of the time. Read on my enduro bros.
First your body has an almost limitless supply of energy in fat. A 155lb athlete w/6-8% BF (that's me) has ~9-12lbs of fat on their bod. 2-3% BF is close to the minimum level. You need fat to create cell lining. CNS cells must have fat. White blood cells are affected by low BF levels. Less fat=less WBCs, add too much training=you get sick(that's me too)! I'm sure rider has seen this in action-I have. So don't get too skinny or at least do it slow. Also eat fat just limit the amount. 50carb/30pro/20fat isn't a bad diet ratio.
One lb of fat=3500cals. Thats alot of energy!! If you did a Tour stage you'd probably burn 8000 calories (just a rough, rough estimate, but I am pretty sure this isn't too far off). That's 2+lbs of fat. Lets say you have 7lbs of fat on ya. But you are also eating bars and Extrans and stuff so you burn fat but also those carbs you are taking in. So burning 2lbs of fat is no big deal; you still have 5lbs left. Plus you have all kinds of upper body muscle that you can catabolize. Seriously-biceps look awesome in your victory salutes, but thats a kilo you can lose right there. The euro dudes have the bare minimum arm muscle and zero pecs. They look like prison camp inmates, but hey I don't race for the chicks! The guys on the other boards will think we're nuts, but its all about being fast. So you can see that being calorically deficient isn't a huge deal for super skinny dudes if you do it right.
The first few times you do a big ride or race and not eat you feel like shit. However if you do this a few times a week for a few weeks you train your body how to tap those stores faster. As an endurance athlete you tap fat stores sooner, but by training this energy system you'll notice a diference in many aspects of your riding. You can go hard and ride forever if you get it dialed in. And you get so light and strong. So in short this is how NOT EATING is good for your riding.
FHG
Doing 200k on Sunday w/no food-COOL ; )
Your diet ideas are good. But to be a competetive elite bike racer like 'rolfaldag' wants to be (that sounds funny cause as you guys may know "Rolf Aldag" is a pro on Telecom and if I am correct he medalled at the Olympics in...'88!!-Old school baby yeah!!) you must be skinny. POWER to WEIGHT ratio; how many watts can you generate per kilo of body mass? You have to work both ends; you have to train for power and lose the most BF you can. 10% don't cut it. Plus think of the power you'd have if you could generate 5watts/kg and then you lost 2-3 kilos, but no power, your power to weight ratio or watts/kg goes up! Example: you weigh 70kg and generate 350watts=350w/70kg=5w/kg. If you lose 3kg and no power, 350w/67kg=5.22w/kg. This doesn't seem like much but it's huge; the difference between a field finish and top 5 in a breakaway. When you are lean everything is better: sprinting, TT, and especially climbing!
Most athletes consume more than they need to. In fact top guys only take in as many calories as they expend when prepping for races. And these guys are frickin skinny. rider is right alot of guys eat way less when trying to lose weight before major races. It seems contrary to all we know about diet and training, but it works and doesn't harm you...most of the time. Read on my enduro bros.
First your body has an almost limitless supply of energy in fat. A 155lb athlete w/6-8% BF (that's me) has ~9-12lbs of fat on their bod. 2-3% BF is close to the minimum level. You need fat to create cell lining. CNS cells must have fat. White blood cells are affected by low BF levels. Less fat=less WBCs, add too much training=you get sick(that's me too)! I'm sure rider has seen this in action-I have. So don't get too skinny or at least do it slow. Also eat fat just limit the amount. 50carb/30pro/20fat isn't a bad diet ratio.
One lb of fat=3500cals. Thats alot of energy!! If you did a Tour stage you'd probably burn 8000 calories (just a rough, rough estimate, but I am pretty sure this isn't too far off). That's 2+lbs of fat. Lets say you have 7lbs of fat on ya. But you are also eating bars and Extrans and stuff so you burn fat but also those carbs you are taking in. So burning 2lbs of fat is no big deal; you still have 5lbs left. Plus you have all kinds of upper body muscle that you can catabolize. Seriously-biceps look awesome in your victory salutes, but thats a kilo you can lose right there. The euro dudes have the bare minimum arm muscle and zero pecs. They look like prison camp inmates, but hey I don't race for the chicks! The guys on the other boards will think we're nuts, but its all about being fast. So you can see that being calorically deficient isn't a huge deal for super skinny dudes if you do it right.
The first few times you do a big ride or race and not eat you feel like shit. However if you do this a few times a week for a few weeks you train your body how to tap those stores faster. As an endurance athlete you tap fat stores sooner, but by training this energy system you'll notice a diference in many aspects of your riding. You can go hard and ride forever if you get it dialed in. And you get so light and strong. So in short this is how NOT EATING is good for your riding.
FHG
Doing 200k on Sunday w/no food-COOL ; )
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Cocaine
You guys ever heard of anyone doing coke before a race? I kow robert louis stevenson wrote several of his books in a week whiole on this shit. It seems pretty harsh, but have any of you all given it a try? I know merckx used to do it, and it was involved in moser's hour record.
You guys ever heard of anyone doing coke before a race? I kow robert louis stevenson wrote several of his books in a week whiole on this shit. It seems pretty harsh, but have any of you all given it a try? I know merckx used to do it, and it was involved in moser's hour record.
sorry FHG, I didnt even see those PM's! I just sent ya one tho. And I hear you all too well on getting sick, I have to really starve myself to get to that point though. Probably because I dont really have any other responsibilites outside of racing so I'll get up and train and then if Im not eating alot I end up with no motivation and spend the rest of the day sitting around and sleeping. Kinda sucks, but it beats getting sick. Howd that 200k with no food go? I'll keep a clif bar in my pocket for insurance but I think I've had the same one for over a month, I dont use sport drink either, just water. I do eat a large breakfast before the long rides at this time of year however as Im not overly concerned with my weight. ummm, cocaine? I've heard of guys using it before cyclo cross races but I dont think its a great idea. Its an addictive drug and its just not good for you. It's effects only last 45mins to an hour so it'd be useless for a long road race. And where did you hear Merckx and Moser used it? The only guys I've heard of testing positive for it are Salvatore Commesso and Luca Bramati.. I also spoke with a friend of mine who went to Europe to race cross and he claims to have seen Daniele Pontoni blow 3 lines before a race. Seems like an Italian thing. I dont think it is needed to win cat. 2 road races in America however, hard work will help out much more.
rider
rider
damn
Damn! i had forgotten about Cammesso. I've heard of local dudes around here doing it for athens adn shelby etc. It's a big drug here on campus, too. As far as moser and merckx, I had read that somewhere. Probably in Voet's book or just listening to dudes talk who think they know all (we all know cycling communities have plenty of those).
In response to everyone's "don't eat before you ride" I 've been doing it since monday (x2 3.5 hours rides) and it wasn't all too bad. I didn't bonk as I had expected like last winter when I had gotten down to my all time low that spring. I was wondering though if the reduction in calorie intake by skipping breakfast would hamper recovery of my leg(i'm almost 1 month out from surgery). I usually can't get up and ride in the morning because i've got 8 am classes every morning. So what I've been doing is eating a light breakfast of water, raisin-bran, and a banana or apple or orange. I've been trying to drink less juice for a while now... it's hard! then I go to class until around noon and then I ride for however long usually at my "tempo" or my "buen tempi" which i set after a i get out of town and am warm. I can feel the right place to be and i stay there. Usually around 75-80% (just below my lt) of my max of 209. I try to work at or just below the hr's i'm at while chillin' in the feild when i'm racing. I got 10 hours on the bike last week. Last year at this time I was max'd @ 30 hrs. This season is going to blow! At least it won't be as exspensive as last year.
A word of advice- don't take vioxx unless you're not planning on riding for a while. When i first wrecked, I was racing the next weekend with torn ligaments and a Fx'd patella. A friend of mine who is a walking/driving/riding/living pharmacy hooked me up with some Vioxx and that sheeeot werx!(@ 50mg/day sometimes)(if you take more than 20 and it still hurts, then don't ride!) I had no idea how well it worked and most definetly did more damage then good. Point being, Vioxx is good stuff.
When do races usually start out there in SoCal? I have a friend who lives in the bay area (not a cyclist) and they've invited my training partner and I to chill with them in Feb. Are there races then?
Btw, exams blow gypsie crotch!
Rolf
Damn! i had forgotten about Cammesso. I've heard of local dudes around here doing it for athens adn shelby etc. It's a big drug here on campus, too. As far as moser and merckx, I had read that somewhere. Probably in Voet's book or just listening to dudes talk who think they know all (we all know cycling communities have plenty of those).
In response to everyone's "don't eat before you ride" I 've been doing it since monday (x2 3.5 hours rides) and it wasn't all too bad. I didn't bonk as I had expected like last winter when I had gotten down to my all time low that spring. I was wondering though if the reduction in calorie intake by skipping breakfast would hamper recovery of my leg(i'm almost 1 month out from surgery). I usually can't get up and ride in the morning because i've got 8 am classes every morning. So what I've been doing is eating a light breakfast of water, raisin-bran, and a banana or apple or orange. I've been trying to drink less juice for a while now... it's hard! then I go to class until around noon and then I ride for however long usually at my "tempo" or my "buen tempi" which i set after a i get out of town and am warm. I can feel the right place to be and i stay there. Usually around 75-80% (just below my lt) of my max of 209. I try to work at or just below the hr's i'm at while chillin' in the feild when i'm racing. I got 10 hours on the bike last week. Last year at this time I was max'd @ 30 hrs. This season is going to blow! At least it won't be as exspensive as last year.
A word of advice- don't take vioxx unless you're not planning on riding for a while. When i first wrecked, I was racing the next weekend with torn ligaments and a Fx'd patella. A friend of mine who is a walking/driving/riding/living pharmacy hooked me up with some Vioxx and that sheeeot werx!(@ 50mg/day sometimes)(if you take more than 20 and it still hurts, then don't ride!) I had no idea how well it worked and most definetly did more damage then good. Point being, Vioxx is good stuff.
When do races usually start out there in SoCal? I have a friend who lives in the bay area (not a cyclist) and they've invited my training partner and I to chill with them in Feb. Are there races then?
Btw, exams blow gypsie crotch!
Rolf
fhg43
New member
Rolf-
I don't think restricting calories will inhibit recovery from your surgery. Just don't restrict them too much. Actually you don't need to restrict them at all just time the meals well and consume the amount of calories you expend. Timing wise I'd say eat very light before your ride and during the ride. Wait awhile after the ride to eat a meal and then eat a few smaller meals thru the day. Cyclists need protein so take in lots of protein. Would shark cartilage or MSM help your injury recovery? Eat lots of fruits and veggies-they have phytochemicals which are very good for you. Phytochemicals are mysterious little things and I don't know much about them, but their best source is natural fruits and veggies and I think they have a very very powerful antioxidant action.
FHG
I don't think restricting calories will inhibit recovery from your surgery. Just don't restrict them too much. Actually you don't need to restrict them at all just time the meals well and consume the amount of calories you expend. Timing wise I'd say eat very light before your ride and during the ride. Wait awhile after the ride to eat a meal and then eat a few smaller meals thru the day. Cyclists need protein so take in lots of protein. Would shark cartilage or MSM help your injury recovery? Eat lots of fruits and veggies-they have phytochemicals which are very good for you. Phytochemicals are mysterious little things and I don't know much about them, but their best source is natural fruits and veggies and I think they have a very very powerful antioxidant action.
FHG
altitude tents
anyone ever hear about those altitude tents or chambers that you sleep in? I know Lance Armstrong uses one. I put it up on the board because living at altitued stimulates your body's natural stores of EPO, among other things. Anyone know if the tents are that effective?
anyone ever hear about those altitude tents or chambers that you sleep in? I know Lance Armstrong uses one. I put it up on the board because living at altitued stimulates your body's natural stores of EPO, among other things. Anyone know if the tents are that effective?
dieting
Remember, you can juggle your diet around your key races workouts. I'm a runner, so if I'm going to do a 20-miler (for cyclists--your longest ride of the week), I will eat a light breakfast and maybe use some cytomax and/or Gu during the run. However, for most of my runs, I try to go on an empy tank, which also prepares your body for the later parts of a race when you are low on glycogen. That way I get the added performance benefit of carbs during my key session, which also gives me practice for race-day nutrition. And I also make sure to be properly fueled for races. But, I agree, for day-to-day training, it's better to suffer a little by eating less and be leaner on race day. Just make sure you eat enough for races.
Remember, you can juggle your diet around your key races workouts. I'm a runner, so if I'm going to do a 20-miler (for cyclists--your longest ride of the week), I will eat a light breakfast and maybe use some cytomax and/or Gu during the run. However, for most of my runs, I try to go on an empy tank, which also prepares your body for the later parts of a race when you are low on glycogen. That way I get the added performance benefit of carbs during my key session, which also gives me practice for race-day nutrition. And I also make sure to be properly fueled for races. But, I agree, for day-to-day training, it's better to suffer a little by eating less and be leaner on race day. Just make sure you eat enough for races.
fhg43
New member
Altitude tents=Good
The tents work. Most people report a 8-10% in hematocrit levels when using tents. At one point the Postal Service team talked about turning their team bus into an altitude chamber so every guy on the team could benefit from altitude effects. The tents are expensive so not every guy on the team can afford one.
FHG
The tents work. Most people report a 8-10% in hematocrit levels when using tents. At one point the Postal Service team talked about turning their team bus into an altitude chamber so every guy on the team could benefit from altitude effects. The tents are expensive so not every guy on the team can afford one.
FHG
fhg43
New member
Altitude tents=Good
The tents work. Most people report a 8-10% in hematocrit levels when using tents. At one point the Postal Service team talked about turning their team bus into an altitude chamber so every guy on the team could benefit from altitude effects. The tents are expensive so not every guy on the team can afford one.
FHG
The tents work. Most people report a 8-10% in hematocrit levels when using tents. At one point the Postal Service team talked about turning their team bus into an altitude chamber so every guy on the team could benefit from altitude effects. The tents are expensive so not every guy on the team can afford one.
FHG
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The Brotherhood
Ah I'm back after a month or so of nordic ski training. Glad to see this post is kicking ass! Just thought I'd mention for any eduros from the frozen north that skate skiing is one of the best things you can ever do for maintaining aerobic base in the winter. I have never been more fit come March than when I ski all winter.
Alright quick catchup: Rider, what happend to Matt Kelly?
and Triguy, how did you determine optimal dosages of GH? I am contemplating but without insulin. I'd really like to here details of how it's working for you.
Peace to everybody else.
Ah I'm back after a month or so of nordic ski training. Glad to see this post is kicking ass! Just thought I'd mention for any eduros from the frozen north that skate skiing is one of the best things you can ever do for maintaining aerobic base in the winter. I have never been more fit come March than when I ski all winter.
Alright quick catchup: Rider, what happend to Matt Kelly?
and Triguy, how did you determine optimal dosages of GH? I am contemplating but without insulin. I'd really like to here details of how it's working for you.
Peace to everybody else.
fhg43
New member
oxjunkie (BTW nice handle)-
Matt Kelly...I don't really know the whole story, but I think he is done. Which is too bad as he looked to have an extremely promising future like TdF or World Cup MTB future. But IMO it is the same old story not everyone with champion talent is cut out to be a champion.
How many recreational ski racers do you know who are super strong, like as strong as the top guys? But you put them in a race and put some pressure on them and you out perform them everytime. Or they try XC ski racing for a few years and get super good, but then can't deal with the incredible committment to training and diet sleep etc...They just get tired of being athletes. I can't really blame them I mean it is a hard life. However the rewards IMO outweigh the sacrifices.
FHG
Matt Kelly...I don't really know the whole story, but I think he is done. Which is too bad as he looked to have an extremely promising future like TdF or World Cup MTB future. But IMO it is the same old story not everyone with champion talent is cut out to be a champion.
How many recreational ski racers do you know who are super strong, like as strong as the top guys? But you put them in a race and put some pressure on them and you out perform them everytime. Or they try XC ski racing for a few years and get super good, but then can't deal with the incredible committment to training and diet sleep etc...They just get tired of being athletes. I can't really blame them I mean it is a hard life. However the rewards IMO outweigh the sacrifices.
FHG
6 to 8hr races
I tried Deca & Winne both injectable.While I got stronger,I gained a little weight too.So it negated any gains for bike racing.I am going to try something else this next season.Still researcing it,so thanks for all the advice you guys are putting out....SPINNER
I tried Deca & Winne both injectable.While I got stronger,I gained a little weight too.So it negated any gains for bike racing.I am going to try something else this next season.Still researcing it,so thanks for all the advice you guys are putting out....SPINNER
fhg43
New member
Re: 6 to 8hr races
Greetings spinner-
Kudos for keeping our kickass endurance post going. Deca converts to nandrolone which is a nice substance for endurance athletes. However it is very easy to detect and stays in your system for 18months!! Nor-andros also convert to nandrolone. So if you get tested you are in trouble. I know of no maksing agents (that aren't banned) for nandrolone.
I know the euros will do just about anything, but I think a lot of guys try testoterone. Endurance athletes like bike racers tend to have depressed test levels after months of hard training and competing. Plus being super skinny and eating no fat inhibits test production. Anavar (oxandrolone) is good, but banned also. It is good for adding strength and not alot of size (ie weight) and RBC production. There is of course EPO, but I've heard post EPO cycle crash (as in your body crashing not a bike crash) is really bad. Pantani went thru that in '95 after his bad bike crash. In the hospital his crit level dropped to 15 and when they gave him EPO to help it shot up to 80. The doc who treated him said these were signs of chronic EPO usage-his body had trouble making EPO on its own. Leave EPO to the euro dudes. You don't need it in the US or even in low level races in europe. My friend did the euro thing clean and got good placings too (and not in shitty little races either)!
FHG
spinner said:
Greetings spinner-
Kudos for keeping our kickass endurance post going. Deca converts to nandrolone which is a nice substance for endurance athletes. However it is very easy to detect and stays in your system for 18months!! Nor-andros also convert to nandrolone. So if you get tested you are in trouble. I know of no maksing agents (that aren't banned) for nandrolone.
I know the euros will do just about anything, but I think a lot of guys try testoterone. Endurance athletes like bike racers tend to have depressed test levels after months of hard training and competing. Plus being super skinny and eating no fat inhibits test production. Anavar (oxandrolone) is good, but banned also. It is good for adding strength and not alot of size (ie weight) and RBC production. There is of course EPO, but I've heard post EPO cycle crash (as in your body crashing not a bike crash) is really bad. Pantani went thru that in '95 after his bad bike crash. In the hospital his crit level dropped to 15 and when they gave him EPO to help it shot up to 80. The doc who treated him said these were signs of chronic EPO usage-his body had trouble making EPO on its own. Leave EPO to the euro dudes. You don't need it in the US or even in low level races in europe. My friend did the euro thing clean and got good placings too (and not in shitty little races either)!
FHG
Dead Legs!!!
Nothing like the feeling in those legs after 5 hours on the road today. THis thread is great for my recovery, just stitting on my ass baby! I get off on having smoked legs at night! Alright, as for something real to post: Best cyclist ever, who is it?
I figure this will inspire some posting, especially if I say that I think it's oh ......Miguel of course. Sorry Lance, I hate Texas.
Nothing like the feeling in those legs after 5 hours on the road today. THis thread is great for my recovery, just stitting on my ass baby! I get off on having smoked legs at night! Alright, as for something real to post: Best cyclist ever, who is it?
I figure this will inspire some posting, especially if I say that I think it's oh ......Miguel of course. Sorry Lance, I hate Texas.
fhg43
New member
Re: Dead Legs!!!
Merckx hands down. Guy did 49kph in 76(?)-Boardman barely beat his hour record last year. One year he won every classification in the Tour-mtns, pts, overall and a bunch of stages. Incredible. Yeah racing was different back then, but still...
Current riders who impress and destined for greatness: Musseuw, Jalabert, Armstrong, Rominger, Zabel, Ullrich, Cipo, Big Mig. I think Freire could be really good if he stays healthy. Jalabert is highly underrated-he has won so much. He ahd a few off years.
I am pretty wiped myself ox. Did 100k Mon and Wed. Only did 1hr Thurs and 2hrs today. Gearing up for the next 4 days-going big!
FHG
oxjunkie said:
Merckx hands down. Guy did 49kph in 76(?)-Boardman barely beat his hour record last year. One year he won every classification in the Tour-mtns, pts, overall and a bunch of stages. Incredible. Yeah racing was different back then, but still...
Current riders who impress and destined for greatness: Musseuw, Jalabert, Armstrong, Rominger, Zabel, Ullrich, Cipo, Big Mig. I think Freire could be really good if he stays healthy. Jalabert is highly underrated-he has won so much. He ahd a few off years.
I am pretty wiped myself ox. Did 100k Mon and Wed. Only did 1hr Thurs and 2hrs today. Gearing up for the next 4 days-going big!
FHG
Cool - finally a decent endurance thread. I'm a bike racer. Let's see I've used eq, test prop, winny, clen/t3, and deca..oh yeah and ritalin, ephedrine, hydrocodone, cortisone(kenalog40). LOL! Out of all those eq was the best AS in my opinion for cycling.. only did 250 mg's a week. I did feel hungry all the time though - which was enhanced with injectable b12(the hunger that feels like I was stranded on a desert isle and hadn't eaten in weeks.) Cortisone takes a lot of the muscle soreness away but overall it's effect seems mild to me. Have to say though that none of those drugs are going to make a huge difference. Maybe an extra 10% at most from my experience. I too had the matt kelly syndrome of being weight crazy. Had to finally hide my scales because I was fanatical and in the long run I was not pleasant to be around always worrying about my weight and diet etc. Keep yourself sane.
I'mmmmmmm BACK! Fu**in computer virus's
Nice! keep this thread goin!
Ok! I think GH is the key. I only go off 1 month at a time 2x a year. Been reading gh can add fibers with prolonged use, adding some slow twitch fibers would definately help.
next cycle:
EQ with proviron. proviron adds some androgens( a must for recovery) and keep my sex drive goin!.
doing a 50 mile road race in march so ill keep you guys updated on my training results. Also Tents kick ass boosted my hematocrit levels from 44 to 48%. Was clean also at the time!!!!!!! just think when EQ is added! just coming off methyltest,gh,insulin. getting full bloodwork done and ill give youg guys results. Any specific results I shoould look for besides test,test/epitest,hematocrit?
Nice! keep this thread goin!
Ok! I think GH is the key. I only go off 1 month at a time 2x a year. Been reading gh can add fibers with prolonged use, adding some slow twitch fibers would definately help.
next cycle:
EQ with proviron. proviron adds some androgens( a must for recovery) and keep my sex drive goin!.
doing a 50 mile road race in march so ill keep you guys updated on my training results. Also Tents kick ass boosted my hematocrit levels from 44 to 48%. Was clean also at the time!!!!!!! just think when EQ is added! just coming off methyltest,gh,insulin. getting full bloodwork done and ill give youg guys results. Any specific results I shoould look for besides test,test/epitest,hematocrit?
GH - I wish I could afford it. I think this year I'll do the eq again and add in some anavar. My favorite is actually test but I put about 2 1/2 centimeters on my arms and chest without even doing any weight training. I felt good on it though, strong. My girlfriend wasn't complaining either.
I'm afraid of the bulk though.
peace
I'm afraid of the bulk though.
peace
fhg43
New member
Re: Albumin levels
Albumin is synthesized from the liver and is the protein of the highest concentration in plasma. I think it helps transport substances in the body. Albumin levels would be affected by the exogenous administration of drugs. Drugs that can increase albumin measurements include anabolic steroids, androgens, growth hormone, and insulin. Even if you are using script drugs your albumin levels will go up as your liver has to clean the stuff from your body.
Did you have the bloodwork done while on a cycle?
FHG
rolfaldag said:
Albumin is synthesized from the liver and is the protein of the highest concentration in plasma. I think it helps transport substances in the body. Albumin levels would be affected by the exogenous administration of drugs. Drugs that can increase albumin measurements include anabolic steroids, androgens, growth hormone, and insulin. Even if you are using script drugs your albumin levels will go up as your liver has to clean the stuff from your body.
Did you have the bloodwork done while on a cycle?
FHG
I was thinking of tren, I havn't heard of anyone using it for an endurance sport though. I always hear bodybuilders saying how they gained weight on it so I thought maybe I'd stay away. I love the androgenics! I thought test prop was going to be good for maintaining my weight but nope I still gained.
fhg43
New member
Re: albumin
How's the training and knee rehab going? We are 31 days from Race #1 out here.
Read your post about being young and getting the pro hook up early-don't worry about. Plenty of guys are turning pro after age 23. Those guys tend to do well too. No worries-it would be to your advantage to do something like go to school and race collegiately and get noticed by the feds. Noel definitley knows who the top collegiate guys are. I can think of another guy who did that route...Tyler Hamilton.
Boys shout out about the training.
FHG
rolfaldag said:
How's the training and knee rehab going? We are 31 days from Race #1 out here.
Read your post about being young and getting the pro hook up early-don't worry about. Plenty of guys are turning pro after age 23. Those guys tend to do well too. No worries-it would be to your advantage to do something like go to school and race collegiately and get noticed by the feds. Noel definitley knows who the top collegiate guys are. I can think of another guy who did that route...Tyler Hamilton.
Boys shout out about the training.
FHG
FHG! Im like 30 min from thousand oaks. What race is 31 days away? Im looking to do a road race in march ( 50 miles- i know pus*y mileage. but hey its my first)
just got a new triathlete coach so im jazzed!
GUY'S WE ALL NEED TO EMAIL THE TOP GUY AND GET OUR OWN ELITE FITNESS ENDURANCE BOARD!!!!!!!! i STARTED THIS THREAD AND ITS LIKE MY BABY NOW "SNIFF, SNIFF" ;(
just got a new triathlete coach so im jazzed!
GUY'S WE ALL NEED TO EMAIL THE TOP GUY AND GET OUR OWN ELITE FITNESS ENDURANCE BOARD!!!!!!!! i STARTED THIS THREAD AND ITS LIKE MY BABY NOW "SNIFF, SNIFF" ;(
trainin'
been doin' some 150 k rides in the hills to mtns trying to stay in my sweet spot (just below 170). very cold... using plenty of born oil on almost every part of my body... have almost 2000 kilos for the past month, going skiing, maybe.... it's supposed to snow real bad here, so i might just have to stay here... darn. Xmas and new years has made me fat again... gotta work on that! good luck all
Rolf
been doin' some 150 k rides in the hills to mtns trying to stay in my sweet spot (just below 170). very cold... using plenty of born oil on almost every part of my body... have almost 2000 kilos for the past month, going skiing, maybe.... it's supposed to snow real bad here, so i might just have to stay here... darn. Xmas and new years has made me fat again... gotta work on that! good luck all
Rolf
fina
one of my ride buddies has gotten a hold of some fina. I haven't heard you all talk about it, so is good for a cyclist to take. He's a cat. one and he's only done winny and dbol and whatever aromatises into nandrolone that i know of. He wants to do 50mg's everyday. I'm assuming he got it from where we all get our b12 because he's got to prep it. So, is that cycle too much? I thought so. And, is it even a good grug for a cyclist? he's about 6 ft. and 150 lbs. will his mass be too mnuch of a gain to manage for racing in 1.5mos.?
Ciao,
rolf
one of my ride buddies has gotten a hold of some fina. I haven't heard you all talk about it, so is good for a cyclist to take. He's a cat. one and he's only done winny and dbol and whatever aromatises into nandrolone that i know of. He wants to do 50mg's everyday. I'm assuming he got it from where we all get our b12 because he's got to prep it. So, is that cycle too much? I thought so. And, is it even a good grug for a cyclist? he's about 6 ft. and 150 lbs. will his mass be too mnuch of a gain to manage for racing in 1.5mos.?
Ciao,
rolf
Tren is too much for a endurance athlete IMO:
1. can increase one's progesterone (gyno)
A. must take winny to counteract the progesterone effects.
2. his pecker might have some difficulties working (maybe, evryones diffrent)
3. tren & wiiny together is gonna BUILD some muscle. But i have seen on this website tren increses certain fibers, maybe since he endurance trains he will maximize only the type 2 oxidative fibers.
Please! keep us posted on his results. guys use 50 EOD.
i'd stick to the heavy androgens
halo,masteron,methyltest, anadrol & *dbol ( famous for its recuperative abilities)
1. can increase one's progesterone (gyno)
A. must take winny to counteract the progesterone effects.
2. his pecker might have some difficulties working (maybe, evryones diffrent)
3. tren & wiiny together is gonna BUILD some muscle. But i have seen on this website tren increses certain fibers, maybe since he endurance trains he will maximize only the type 2 oxidative fibers.
Please! keep us posted on his results. guys use 50 EOD.
i'd stick to the heavy androgens
halo,masteron,methyltest, anadrol & *dbol ( famous for its recuperative abilities)
did some research:
1. tren is good for everyone!
but:
need proviron cause your pecker will probably go to sleep, also can cause hairloss.
Id use it for 6-8weeks of your hardest part of the racing season and they use 75mg EOD.
i think the progesterone effects might be from the cow version of tren not sure have him look into it.
1. tren is good
for everyone!but:
need proviron cause your pecker will probably go to sleep, also can cause hairloss.
Id use it for 6-8weeks of your hardest part of the racing season and they use 75mg EOD.
i think the progesterone effects might be from the cow version of tren not sure have him look into it.
Triguy,
if you're intersested, I'm going to do a tren/test/mestanolone/halo cycle for 6 weeks in march...I know, lots of 17aa's...But I've got also lots of liver protectors.
There's what I'll take :
w1/6 tren 80mg eod
w1/6 test susp tabs (20mg, chinese) 3 ed to avoid tren dick
w1/6 mestanolone (oral masteron, chinese : very strong CNS stimulation) 50mg ed
w3/6 halo 15mg ed (if not already too much sides from the others...)
I think I'll get huge strength gains, without too much size with this one.
I'll also take :
ALA 600md ed / silibinin 600mg ed / reduced glutathione 1000mg ed 2 weeks before cycle up to 3 weeks after. then : calcium d-glucarate 6x500mg ed for detoxication after clomid therapy.
I forget : saw palmetto 320 mg ed (mestanolone is hard for the prostate).
Not really an endurance cycle, but I'm very curious about the results I'll get from it...
if you're intersested, I'm going to do a tren/test/mestanolone/halo cycle for 6 weeks in march...I know, lots of 17aa's...But I've got also lots of liver protectors.
There's what I'll take :
w1/6 tren 80mg eod
w1/6 test susp tabs (20mg, chinese) 3 ed to avoid tren dick
w1/6 mestanolone (oral masteron, chinese : very strong CNS stimulation) 50mg ed
w3/6 halo 15mg ed (if not already too much sides from the others...)
I think I'll get huge strength gains, without too much size with this one.
I'll also take :
ALA 600md ed / silibinin 600mg ed / reduced glutathione 1000mg ed 2 weeks before cycle up to 3 weeks after. then : calcium d-glucarate 6x500mg ed for detoxication after clomid therapy.
I forget : saw palmetto 320 mg ed (mestanolone is hard for the prostate).
Not really an endurance cycle, but I'm very curious about the results I'll get from it...
IMO:
tren + proviron is a good enough cycle!
halo, test susp, oral masteron is just too much! (do a post on this cycle on the anabolic board & people are gonna scream "too much")
I myslef am gonna try tren & proviron towards the end of the season when my big race comes.
just my 2 cents, trying to help.
tren + proviron is a good enough cycle!
halo, test susp, oral masteron is just too much! (do a post on this cycle on the anabolic board & people are gonna scream "too much")
I myslef am gonna try tren & proviron towards the end of the season when my big race comes.
just my 2 cents, trying to help.
I emailed george the main guy here at elite on getting our own board.
IF ENUFF PEOPLE EMAIL HIM HE MIGHT GIVE US ONE !!!!!!!!
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
lets not lose this thread! I have learned alot here.
also Realblaz why not just do tren & proviron and add GH, & lose the other androgens. low dose 2-3 i.u's ED I seen a real boost in recovery, very! low muscle gain. surprisingly low. And im weight training 3x a week
IF ENUFF PEOPLE EMAIL HIM HE MIGHT GIVE US ONE !!!!!!!!
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
lets not lose this thread! I have learned alot here.
also Realblaz why not just do tren & proviron and add GH, & lose the other androgens. low dose 2-3 i.u's ED I seen a real boost in recovery, very! low muscle gain. surprisingly low. And im weight training 3x a week
tren+proviron is what I wanted to do first, but I don't know if it's still really effective with the very high HPTA suppression from the tren.
On the other side, if I'm taking 5-6 x a halfpill of test tabs, I think it's only about 200mg/w if compared with an injectable (IP assume absorption rate of pill is about 50% and they are 20mg each : so 3 pills/day = 60mg, 50% = 30mg, X 7 days = 210mg).
I'd like to try HGH or even EPO (low doses, I'm not crazy) but it's -by far- much too expensive for me...How do you cycle it ? I read that HGH should be taken for 3 month min to really notice effects (?!).
On the other side, if I'm taking 5-6 x a halfpill of test tabs, I think it's only about 200mg/w if compared with an injectable (IP assume absorption rate of pill is about 50% and they are 20mg each : so 3 pills/day = 60mg, 50% = 30mg, X 7 days = 210mg).
I'd like to try HGH or even EPO (low doses, I'm not crazy) but it's -by far- much too expensive for me...How do you cycle it ? I read that HGH should be taken for 3 month min to really notice effects (?!).
EQ?
Hey bros,
Triguy please keep us posted on EQ proviron cylce. I would really like to try it but have enough trouble controlling my appetite. I might throw in appetite suppressant like phentermine.
anybody had any experience with diet drugs? How did they effect performance? Also I would run an anti e with the EQ to minimize water retention. Everyone says you don't get much but I
have seen guys use EQ and hold quite a bit, too much for us anyway. Peace
Your Brother in Smooth Legs,
OX
Hey bros,
Triguy please keep us posted on EQ proviron cylce. I would really like to try it but have enough trouble controlling my appetite. I might throw in appetite suppressant like phentermine.
anybody had any experience with diet drugs? How did they effect performance? Also I would run an anti e with the EQ to minimize water retention. Everyone says you don't get much but I
have seen guys use EQ and hold quite a bit, too much for us anyway. Peace
Your Brother in Smooth Legs,
OX
BS?
Guys check out this site www.phytin.com
If you do a search for posts by Celica you'll see he claims it raised his h-crit levels from 39-46 in two months. WTF, I say no way, but has anybody heard of this stuff?
[url]www.phytin.com[/URL]
Guys check out this site www.phytin.com
If you do a search for posts by Celica you'll see he claims it raised his h-crit levels from 39-46 in two months. WTF, I say no way, but has anybody heard of this stuff?
[url]www.phytin.com[/URL]
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