Anti-estrogens

[The Iron Game]

I am sorry but I must disagree with you. Estrogen will continue to rise due to the aromatisation even after the initial conversion has taken place and bined to the er. Better late than never. If a person can tell as soon as he feels the onset of gyno it will not be too late. It is no doubt arimidex is better than nolva but not everyone is rich, and not everyone has access to the latest arsenal (liquidex) and even if they did it is better for the poor man to buy nolvadex $50 / cycle over $240-260 liquidex

Peace

 

[pgerardone]

I am sorry but I must disagree with you. Estrogen will continue to rise due to the aromatisation even after the initial conversion has taken place and bined to the er. Better late than never. If a person can tell as soon as he feels the onset of gyno it will not be too late. It is no doubt arimidex is better than nolva but not everyone is rich, and not everyone has access to the latest arsenal (liquidex) and even if they did it is better for the poor man to buy nolvadex $50 / cycle over $240-260 liquidex

Peace

I never said noveldex was not sufficient, it is. Also once gyno starts of course it is better to take the novs then not to but most likely it will not help much. Usually it is too late for noveldex to help much after the onset of gyno. Arimidfex may help after gyno starts but it also may not. There is absolutely no reason to hold off on using an anti-estrogen.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Although I for the most part agree with what you're saying,I also see something that needs correction.I agree that if prone to gyno,one should start anti-estro's at the onset of a steroid cycle-BUT-If one does not,and gyno begins to set in,nolvadex can and will help reduce/negate inflamation.How?If an estrogen molecule has already attached itself to the receptor,we must remember that it's activity life is relatively short,a matter of hours.Therefore when it has lived out its life the receptor is now free to bind with nolvadex and this takes place rapidly and in great numbers,which WILL have a definite impact on reducing gyno symptoms.I agree that arimidex is a vastly superior option,as it eliminates the problem at its root,but I also want to stress that nolvadex can and will serve its purpose for those who don't have access to/can't afford arimidex.I have witnessed its efficiency first hand on many occasions,not only personally but with many friends and clients as well over the years...

 

[pgerardone]

Although I for the most part agree with what you're saying,I also see something that needs correction.I agree that if prone to gyno,one should start anti-estro's at the onset of a steroid cycle-BUT-If one does not,and gyno begins to set in,nolvadex can and will help reduce/negate inflamation.How?If an estrogen molecule has already attached itself to the receptor,we must remember that it's activity life is relatively short,a matter of hours.Therefore when it has lived out its life the receptor is now free to bind with nolvadex and this takes place rapidly and in great numbers,which WILL have a definite impact on reducing gyno symptoms.I agree that arimidex is a vastly superior option,as it eliminates the problem at its root,but I also want to stress that nolvadex can and will serve its purpose for those who don't have access to/can't afford arimidex.I have witnessed its efficiency first hand on many occasions,not only personally but with many friends and
clients as well over the years...

Agreed. I know it will help to a degree but what I was trying to say is that in some once the gyno starts and they have it it may never go away so it is not worth the risk. I also agree that noveldex is very effective at a fairly low dose, I have used as low as 5mgs at times, as long as it is started concurrent with the a.s.

 

[e-man]

pgerardone,

I can't agree more with you 100%. That is how I got gyno, i.e. started Nolvadex too late. I know some guys can stop onset of gyno as soon as the gland starts to get stimulated, i.e. itchy/sore nipps.
The big risk is weather it will stop/prevent the gyno from continuing. Some of the expeirenced guys know exactly when to take it, but most people do not know.
The end effect is gyno or boobs and a heavy surgery cost.

I listened to an expeirenced juice guy who told me the exact same thing: take Nolva when you get...But he said once it subsides don't continue as it will hinder gains. So that is what I did. As soon as I stopped, BOOM gyno came big with major swelling.
I can't blame him because that is what worked for him.

Also he never told me to reduce the test dose if gyno starts (too much aromatization).

Bottom line is UNLESS you are an expert and know exactly how your body responds to high estrogen levels and when to start/stop Nolvadex, DO NOT START A CYCLE WITHOUT TAKING NOLVADEX AND/OP STOPPING IT UNTIL YOUR ESTROGEN LEVELS DROP TO NORMAL

LOOSING SOME GAINS (WATER) AND WHATEVER REASONS YOU CAN THINK OF FOR NOT USING ANTI-E'S IS NOT WORTH THE RISK OF DEVELOPING GYNO AND HAVING TO PAY FOR SURGERY!!!!!!

 

[pgerardone]

bump for trapper

 

[maxellyz]

bump great info

 

[pgerardone]

DCS, Very good explanation but there is no reason to have to be aggresive treating gyno once it satarts. If you are smart you will do what is necessary and it will never start.

 

[waterboy]

I agree but would like to ad the fact that nolvadex will just block the estrogen from getting to the receptors but the estogen will still be there and when you go off of the nolvadex there could be a rebound effect which would fuck you in the long run any how .So you would want to use Proviron to stop the "aromatize" into estrogen..... where the Novadex will not do that .. As for as it slightly reducing your gains your right who cares .Would you rather have tits or 2 pounds smaller ? Estrogen plays a role in keeping androgen receptors open ,wich is the stupid theory to why nolvadex takes from the gains .I dont think its proven ether way true or not true.

 

[hard]

waterboy: how much proviron would you recommned