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another reason the army is WEAK

moose11 said:
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/launc...y on FOX&-1&Boot Camp Lite?&Video Launch Page


SO many things wrong with this....anry has basic NOT boot camp. no yelling=no stress=your DEAD when u encounter stress...cellphones!? need i say more? 8hrs of sleep? all u can eat!? WTF why not just give them a uniform and skip all the sherades!
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i think its just a reflection of modern soldiers needing to be technicians more than they need to be warriors.

i know lots of soldiers (hell its a military town) and most of them sit at a console all day. giving them all a combatant killer instinct...wouldnt be a good idea lol

cheers
 
god DAMN she's ugly THAT'S A MAN!

This is wartime, not 1994. The army can't afford to lose people. The army might lose an intellectual genius who can't run like an athlete. Would that be fair to the army???

Like the report says -- the military is more technical and thinking than braun now. It's one of our adv's over foreign armies whose soldiers aren't afraid of dying, which makes them invincible.
 
GoldenDelicious said:
i think its just a reflection of modern soldiers needing to be technicians more than they need to be warriors.

i know lots of soldiers (hell its a military town) and most of them sit at a console all day. giving them all a combatant killer instinct...wouldnt be a good idea lol

cheers
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True. In the past soldiers were the dumbest of the dumb. No person with a high IQ would enlist. It would be a waste. In my H.S., the dumb kids who couldn't make it to college cuz of shitty marks - would enlist.

Even recruiters here go to inner-city schools to recruit kids. Kids who couldn't get into college and the only option is military or burger king.
 
I knew this guy who was in the army. He told me he guaranteed me that he could get out of my headlock even if he let me put him in it. Dummy. I applied the lock, his neck began to crack and he said, "Okay" LOL. He lasted all of 2 seconds.
 
fuck intellectual genius'. let them go to the airforce where no one does anything.(the AF should be civilianized) there is a REASON to yell at recruits and give them little sleep and little food and take contact with family away from them...its called PREPARING THEM FOR WAR. which IS the main purpose of havign a military. yelleing provides stress...causing u to think under pressure...giving u cat like instinks. less sleep simulates sleep deprevation...hleing u learn to perform under this keeps u from loosing ur mind in striving times. Kepping recruits contact with family also makes them stronger....when i was on patrol in Fallujah in the rain at night with shitty ass NVGs, did i think of calling home and asking mommy to comfort me!? NO why? cus i was not a virgin to stress and unknown circumstances i was trained and preparred for this situation. did i get nervous HELL YEAH did i ACT nervous HELL NO. I laughed it off cursing out the Corp for shitty equipment and laughed at the situation of being blind at night in the rain. i was PREPARED for anything and THATS what basic or bootcamp is supposed to do. why do so many national guardsmen get into trouble(abu garab) and killed? because their training is a JOKE. how many airmen do u hear about dying?? VERY little...why? because they get jack shit training and are smart enough to stya the hell outta the way. UGH i copuld go on forever on this...mothers of America bithc and complain about thier babies being "treated badly" well lady ur bitching just caused ur childs life or another familes life because training has gone DOWN HILL because of u.
 
moose11 said:
fuck intellectual genius'. let them go to the airforce where no one does anything.(the AF should be civilianized) there is a REASON to yell at recruits and give them little sleep and little food and take contact with family away from them...its called PREPARING THEM FOR WAR. which IS the main purpose of havign a military. yelleing provides stress...causing u to think
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It's still like that. They're just scaling it back cuz they need as many men as they can get. Did you even watch the report?

How about if your boss used that philosophy on you?

lol @ let the smart ones join the a.f. The army is already known for recruiting the dumbest of the dumb. Keep up the stereotype. Smart kids go straight to college or another branch. No wonder the army does all the dying. All they do is run and shoot and get shot. It's hard to recruit smart nerdy people to become future body bags.

and lol @ you doubting army generals and sargeants. What's your credentials? I assume they know what they're doing.
 
biteme said:
I knew this guy who was in the army. He told me he guaranteed me that he could get out of my headlock even if he let me put him in it. Dummy. I applied the lock, his neck began to crack and he said, "Okay" LOL. He lasted all of 2 seconds.
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Dude, given your lack of credibility who do you think is going to believe your bullshit?
 
Razorguns said:
It's still like that. They're just scaling it back cuz they need as many men as they can get. Did you even watch the report?

How about if your boss used that philosophy on you?

lol @ let the smart ones join the a.f. The army is already known for recruiting the dumbest of the dumb. Keep up the stereotype. Smart kids go straight to college or another branch. No wonder the army does all the dying. All they do is run and shoot and get shot. It's hard to recruit smart nerdy people to become future body bags.

and lol @ you doubting army generals and sargeants. What's your credentials? I assume they know what they're doing.
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the reason does "all" they dying is cus they have more #s than anyone and the fact that the have alot of poorly trained undisciplined troops. whats my credentials? well for one ive had plenty of college i been to Marine Corps Bootcamp AND Officer Candidate school. Ive been thru artillery school SASO training Machine gunners course I did 7mths in Fallujah in which my unit lost ZERO men. HEEL i even provided secutiry for army psy op units every day they went into the city. Myunit had zero misfires where the paladin(army unit) shot out and killed Marines on patrol. I have respect for the uniform and wear it with pride and hold myself to a higher standard. the army slouches wears messy uniforms beebops when they walk talk liek they are back on the block and many other nasty habbits. My credentials are that ive been theri done that seen it and i know what im talking about...now what are YOUR credentials? young one who hasnt even entered any service yet.
 
moose11 said:
I have respect for the uniform and wear it with pride and hold myself to a higher standard. the army slouches wears messy uniforms beebops when they walk talk liek they are back on the block and many other nasty habbits.
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I'm glad you're proud to be a Marine, you should be. You guys are an elite unit, and a small one. The Army is a lot bigger. You said you've been through artillery school so you know the Army provides training for Marines there. They do the same at Quartermaster, Transportation and many other schools. So the Marine Corps would not be able to perform at its high standard without some quality training courtesy of the U.S. Army.

There are segments of the Army that are as large as the entire Marine Corps and have as high or higher standards (82d, 101st, Rangers, SF, Delta, etc). I have served side by side with Marines while a member of some of these Army Units and I must say many were quite challenged by our training. Some couldn't hang.

The Army also necessarily has a lot of units such to provide logistics support, and they are not as sharp when it comes to warfighting, but provide very necessary functions to the US Army. I'll admit sometimes you see embarassing examples of soldiering. Also keep in mind many of these units are National Guard and Reserves and sometimes are not quite as polished as regular troops.

As for the general comments here about the quality of the Army:

1) It is the best Army the US has ever had
2) It has no peer in the world
3) It is all-volunteer, and unless you would prefer a draft, be glad that it is as effective as it is

The Army is far from perfect, but it is definitely an American success story and some of the finest young people in our nation are drawn to serve.
 
ther army has provided NO training to me. i think u and I have had this deiscussion before we use army facilities but no army personel. except at like ranger school etc i think we established...but like MP school at ft leonardwood etc its army base USMC intructors. I dissagree with 82nd/101st being as high or higher in standars ive seen both and they are just reg ol soldiers. rangers a bit better but still nothign spectacular....delta green berets etc. i dunno if recon could even touch them but theyd give it all they had and fuckem up even if they lost hahah. the army is the best its ever been? now thats is funny thanx for the eraly morning laugh...come on...the army has become a babysitter for single paretns they take everyone and quantity is not quality. I think the army has dropped considerably....i am proud my dad and grandfatehers were army...but i think its safe to say...esp on my fathers part...they are dissapointed in the current state of them. no one is trained the same u have too wide of a variety in good-bad. thats one of the MAJOR problems. u train the same u act the same.
 
moose11 said:
yup thats where USMC artillery school is. we used out gear in our classrooms and our instructors.
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I'm well aware of that, which is why I brought it up. The USMC detachment is on Army real estate. You trained on Army ranges and your USMC instructors were using classrooms at the Army's FA school. When I attended ARMY officer basic and advanced training at Fort Sill, there were several USMC Officers in my classes. Some of them stayed at Sill to become instructors after being trained by Army Officers.

I've seen similar sitiuations at the Air Defense, Signal, Quartermaster and Engineer schools. The USMC can't afford all of the infrastructure for that kind of training so Dept of Defense wisely has them use the facilities of the world's greatest Land Component Military: The United States Army.

So you see, if you want to criticize the Army and its standards, you are also criticizing the USMC.


"All Marine Field Artillerymen - both officer and enlisted - are trained at the United States Army Field Artillery Training Center.

Goals

To prepare soldiers and Marines for war and operations other than war.

Training command accomplishes this goal through instruction for soldiers and marines from initial entry level through battalion, division artillery and field artillery brigade pre-command courses"


http://sill-www.army.mil/USAFAS/index.htm
 
Had to view the f'n commercial.

One Fuggly TI, man or woman. YUCK !

I hear they actually run in RUNNING SHOES rather than combat boots. Great if you have to run down Broadway in NYC, but what about the mountains of Afganistan or dessert of Iraq. Don't care what they do, basic job of the Army is the foot soldier and rifleman. If we don't have them, we don't win a ground war or any war for that matter.

WHAT YOU SAY? I CAN'T HEAR YOU !
 
Longhorn85 said:
I'm well aware of that, which is why I brought it up. The USMC detachment is on Army real estate. You trained on Army ranges and your USMC instructors were using classrooms at the Army's FA school. When I attended ARMY officer basic and advanced training at Fort Sill, there were several USMC Officers in my classes. Some of them stayed at Sill to become instructors after being trained by Army Officers.

I've seen similar sitiuations at the Air Defense, Signal, Quartermaster and Engineer schools. The USMC can't afford all of the infrastructure for that kind of training so Dept of Defense wisely has them use the facilities of the world's greatest Land Component Military: The United States Army.

So you see, if you want to criticize the Army and its standards, you are also criticizing the USMC.


"All Marine Field Artillerymen - both officer and enlisted - are trained at the United States Army Field Artillery Training Center.

Goals

To prepare soldiers and Marines for war and operations other than war.

Training command accomplishes this goal through instruction for soldiers and marines from initial entry level through battalion, division artillery and field artillery brigade pre-command courses"


http://sill-www.army.mil/USAFAS/index.htm
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ok thats kind of twisting things...we use all other service bases and facilities because we have NO budget....we get left overs from the navy as im sure u know. In SOME instances we do use other instructors...purely for the fact we dont have the man power...not beacuse of any better training/instructors. i know alot of this is ego, buts its also tru
 
moose11 said:
MENS department
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I do agree you guys make pretty little gate guards. You also are pretty good at standing in front of a fan room hatch for half an hour with a sign on it saying "Ice Cream Shop will open in ten minutes".
 
redguru said:
I do agree you guys make pretty little gate guards. You also are pretty good at standing in front of a fan room hatch for half an hour with a sign on it saying "Ice Cream Shop will open in ten minutes".
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Lol :rolleyes:
 
redguru said:
I do agree you guys make pretty little gate guards. You also are pretty good at standing in front of a fan room hatch for half an hour with a sign on it saying "Ice Cream Shop will open in ten minutes".
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dem fighten words :evil:
 
Why can't you give a marine a five minute break?
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You have to re-train him.
 
I don't agree with coddling recruits, I had a thread a while ago about giving direct commissions to unqualified canidates, at least one in particular. That being said, the largest amphibious operation ever conducted was by the army exclusively(D-day Europe). Even in the Pacific the US army conducted more amphibious operations than the marines. These operations were conducted by a largely conscript army. The army still produces better killers than WWII. In WWII 1/3 of riflemen fired their weapon in an engagement, we now achieve 90%.
 
moose11 said:
yeah i saw that he was...but then another site said no 5stars so i wasnt sure
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There has not been a 5 star General since the days of McArthur and Eisenhower.
 
chesty said:
I hae respect for the Soldier, but his training is a joke these days. Even the Marines have gotten worse.
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yes bootcamp has gotten weaker too...no campainge covers in recruits face...no pointing with 1 or 2 fingers must point with entire hand...no physical contact..etc etc still the hardest but going down hill....u should see the kids we are putting out! omg....some are a disgrace
 
JavaGuru said:
I don't agree with coddling recruits, I had a thread a while ago about giving direct commissions to unqualified canidates, at least one in particular. That being said, the largest amphibious operation ever conducted was by the army exclusively(D-day Europe). Even in the Pacific the US army conducted more amphibious operations than the marines. These operations were conducted by a largely conscript army. The army still produces better killers than WWII. In WWII 1/3 of riflemen fired their weapon in an engagement, we now achieve 90%.
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the army is 8Xs larger lol id hope they have more
 
When wars become technical and computerized 100 years from now -- bootcamps will be pointless. It'll be replaced by 12 weeks of technical training.

Why run and shoot when you can command a drone 300 miles away to do it for you?

Army purists are pissed. Well deal with the new reality.
 
Razorguns said:
When wars become technical and computerized 100 years from now -- bootcamps will be pointless. It'll be replaced by 12 weeks of technical training.

Why run and shoot when you can command a drone 300 miles away to do it for you?

Army purists are pissed. Well deal with the new reality.
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because drones cant feel...they dont have instinct...either does the nerd 300miles away with a joystick and a tv screen
 
moose11 said:
yes bootcamp has gotten weaker too...no campainge covers in recruits face...no pointing with 1 or 2 fingers must point with entire hand...no physical contact..etc etc still the hardest but going down hill....u should see the kids we are putting out! omg....some are a disgrace
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that sucks! when I went, we got beat, yelled at etc. But if you were smart you realized they weren't trying to hurt you but give you the best chance for survival right out of the chute!

Bunch of fucking pussies is what we are training!
 
chesty said:
that sucks! when I went, we got beat, yelled at etc. But if you were smart you realized they weren't trying to hurt you but give you the best chance for survival right out of the chute!

Bunch of fucking pussies is what we are training!
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Tell that to the wives whose husbands get re-deployed within months, because the army doesn't have enough soldiers. We have 50 y/o's now stuck doing patrol duty it's gotten that bad. Recruitment goes to the shitter during wartimes.
 
Razorguns said:
Tell that to the wives whose husbands get re-deployed within months, because the army doesn't have enough soldiers. We have 50 y/o's now stuck doing patrol duty it's gotten that bad. Recruitment goes to the shitter during wartimes.
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cry me a fucking river...are u EVEN in the army? talk to teh Marine wives who know their men are in teh worst conditions doing the worst jobs. they dont get glimpses of them on tv cus the reporters dont go to Marines. they go to teh army after they have occupied a positiont hat the Mariens have taken over. the army have TONS more men than the Marines if they cant figure out a rotation then its their own fault...maybe a Marine can do the scheduling for them.
 
moose11 said:
cry me a fucking river...are u EVEN in the army? talk to teh Marine wives who know their men are in teh worst conditions doing the worst jobs. they dont get glimpses of them on tv cus the reporters dont go to Marines. they go to teh army after they have occupied a positiont hat the Mariens have taken over. the army have TONS more men than the Marines if they cant figure out a rotation then its their own fault...maybe a Marine can do the scheduling for them.
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I'm talking soldiers. When did I discuss marines vs army? In wars, you need men. If youd on't have it, you run the risk of stretching out your troops. Nice to think soldiers have no brains or families at home. It's easy to armchair their feelings whne you're not thousands of miles away from your kids eh.
 
moose11 said:
cry me a fucking river...are u EVEN in the army? talk to teh Marine wives who know their men are in teh worst conditions doing the worst jobs. they dont get glimpses of them on tv cus the reporters dont go to Marines. they go to teh army after they have occupied a positiont hat the Mariens have taken over. the army have TONS more men than the Marines if they cant figure out a rotation then its their own fault...maybe a Marine can do the scheduling for them.
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OOOOORRRRRRAAAAAAHHHH
 
Razorguns said:
I'm talking soldiers. When did I discuss marines vs army? In wars, you need men. If youd on't have it, you run the risk of stretching out your troops. Nice to think soldiers have no brains or families at home. It's easy to armchair their feelings whne you're not thousands of miles away from your kids eh.
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ok u havent answered ANY of my Qs and ive answered ALL of your...u wanted my credentials and i gave them WHAT ARE YOURS? Im not "armcharing" any feelings and I HAVE been thousands of miles away...so once again ARE YOU EVEN IN THE MILIRATY. dont fucking tell me that u know jack shit just cus u saw it on MTV or some news channel.
 
moose11 said:
ont fucking tell me that u know jack shit just cus u saw it on MTV or some news channel.
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No, but people WAY UP in the military ok'd that move. So I ask -- on what qualification - do you stand on to question the military leaders? Obviosuly they have their reasons which they stated in the video.

Don't worry. It's in the BEST interest of the military to have thousands die. Imagine the lack of respect for soldiers if we have wars, and only 20 die. They'll get treated like cops - and we all know how little respect they get. The cop in Beverly Hills gets almost no credibility.

When other armies develop state of the art computerized armies -- we'll panic and do the same to keep up. Until then, the patrol and shoot version of invasions will continue for awhile.
 
Drones and computers cannot hold territory or feed live intel about the populace up the chain. There will always be a need for the infantryman to patrol and hold ground.
 
moose11 said:
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/launc...y on FOX&-1&Boot Camp Lite?&Video Launch Page


SO many things wrong with this....anry has basic NOT boot camp. no yelling=no stress=your DEAD when u encounter stress...cellphones!? need i say more? 8hrs of sleep? all u can eat!? WTF why not just give them a uniform and skip all the sherades!
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wtf is this shit I never saw anny of that when I was in basic.I got yeld at every day got smoked all day to.no passis no phones and fuck 8 hours sleep most of the time i was lucky to get 4.that was only 6 years ago to.
 
redguru said:
There will always be a need for the infantryman to patrol and hold ground.
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Switch it around. How would americans feel if they were out battlihg drones, and computers were killing our men in droves. 1,000 americans dying a day. People here would be rioting in the streets.

Americans NEED to die in wars to make the military look admirable. 800/year is livable. They can't be known as "perfecting" the art of war. It won't be anytime while you're alive - so don't worry.

If North Korea created unmanned helicopters blowing away our young men -- then yes, we'll have no choice but create the same. The best cause of invention is necessity.
 
Razorguns.....ur a fucking idiot. you still havent answered my Qs. and IF you had ANY military know-how ud know that MOST Generals have never been enlisted and in the shit...therefore they know whats best via a manual/book. i GARUNTEE there is a E-7 in the army or Marines that can run the show better than the avg General. 800lives id liavable? whatd u pull that outta ur ass!? why 800? whats so special about that? perfecting war has alot more to do that troops and drones...its media...polictics...and other influences....let the troops do their job and ull see pretty damn close to perfection. throw in media and fat ass congressmen butting their noses in and the troops look messy. dude ur making my bloodpressure rise!!!!
 
moose11 said:
dude ur making my bloodpressure rise!!!!
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lol @ some stranger assclown on the internet discrediting our generals and military leaders. Too funny! Why not argue that Bill Gates has no idea how to run a company?

I'm glad your bp is rising. Proof positive that guys like you could never be in the military. They don't want stressed out trigger-happy high-bp people. Guys like you die first.
 
moose11 said:
Razorguns.....ur a fucking idiot. you still havent answered my Qs. and IF you had ANY military know-how ud know that MOST Generals have never been enlisted and in the shit...therefore they know whats best via a manual/book. i GARUNTEE there is a E-7 in the army or Marines that can run the show better than the avg General. 800lives id liavable? whatd u pull that outta ur ass!? why 800? whats so special about that? perfecting war has alot more to do that troops and drones...its media...polictics...and other influences....let the troops do their job and ull see pretty damn close to perfection. throw in media and fat ass congressmen butting their noses in and the troops look messy. dude ur making my bloodpressure rise!!!!
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i will say this the best oficers in the army are the ones that went grean to gold,or feild officer.
 
Razorguns said:
lol @ some stranger assclown on the internet discrediting our generals and military leaders. Too funny! Why not argue that Bill Gates has no idea how to run a company?

I'm glad your bp is rising. Proof positive that guys like you could never be in the military. They don't want stressed out trigger-happy high-bp people. Guys like you die first.
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i could never make it in the military? u piece of shit im a God Damn Marine. and if i knew anythign about computers and running a business and thought i could run microsoft better i would tell him. but im not claiming to know either. and u POS i made it THRU the siege of Fallujah while u were sitting at home stuffing ur face playing Halo on playstation. Do you know our generals and leaders? do u follow their orders? NO so shut the fuck up kid. you have no idea what ur tlaking about and you STILL have answered my Qs that I answered for u. sound slike uve dont jack shit. so stop talking about things like u know what ur talking about
 
moose11 said:
i could never make it in the military? u piece of shit im a God Damn Marine. and if i knew anythign about computers and running a business and thought i could run microsoft better i would tell him. but im not claiming to know either. and u POS i made it THRU the siege of Fallujah while u were sitting at home stuffing ur face playing Halo on playstation. Do you know our generals and leaders? do u follow their orders? NO so shut the fuck up kid. you have no idea what ur tlaking about and you STILL have answered my Qs that I answered for u. sound slike uve dont jack shit. so stop talking about things like u know what ur talking about
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I'm talking a idealogy. The generals, nor I, give a shit about some guy named Moose on the internet. This is something LARGER than you and I on some intrnet chat forum.

Bottom line : They debated it thoroughly -- then made their decision. I can live with that. What if every soldier started questioning their generals orders?? The rest of your crap is just wah wah whining. Like I care you can swear and be mr keyboard warrior. Yawn. Whatever.
 
ok kid im finished with you.....now ur insinuating i question orders? go join the national guard son...ull fit right in
 
moose11 said:
ok kid im finished with you.....now ur insinuating i question orders? go join the national guard son...ull fit right in
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bro what is with all the disrespect to other service members.is that all the teech you fucken merins.to disrespect youre fellow solder and think you shit dont stink.
 
im not disrespecting anyone....he isnt in the service for one. this whole thread was started on the video about army basic lightening up....when its already VERY light. i think the training all services but esp army is going to shit. as far as teh national gaurd comment is concerned it s abunch of lazy fatass' so yes if any disrepcet was alloted it is to them. its people picking up a paycheck that have no right to be wearing a uniform
 
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