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Big Bad Buff said:
Hmmm. Cortisol is an essential fight-or-flight hormone released when your body is under stress. Cortisol's role is to prepare your body for action, and to accomplish this, it increases blood pressure and heart rate, mobilises stored fat, breaks down muscle and bone, suppresses the immune system, increases the appetite, and decreases sensitivity to insulin, so that more fat is stored.


Am I in a fucking alternate universe?! What is going on here? You just said that it mobilizes stored fat...how in the hell does this mean that more fat is stored?

If you decrease your insulin sensitivity, then you will store LESS fat. Insulin promotes fat storage...if you lessen its effects, then you lessen fat storage.

People...cortisol is a CATABOLIC hormone...meaning it breaks large molecules into small molecules...whether it be fat, protein, or carbohydrate.

I am so confused right now...are you guys doing this on purpose?
 
Bulldog_10 said:
Am I in a fucking alternate universe?! What is going on here? You just said that it mobilizes stored fat...how in the hell does this mean that more fat is stored?

Real simple: Cortisol both increases the appetite and raises insulin levels, so elevated levels of cortisol will often result in weight gain. Stress-induced weight is usually gained around the waistline, because fat cells in that area are more sensitive to cortisol.

Can you follow that logic?
 
No. I read that off about.com again:
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/dietweightloss/a/zonediet.htm

Clearly states that cortisol increases insulin. The author is a communications consultant, so I'm losing confidence!

I've read that when people have Cushing's, the cortisol is what makes them fat.

Well, I dug this up:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11020091&dopt=Abstract
Stress and body shape: stress-induced cortisol secretion is consistently greater among women with central fat.

Epel ES, McEwen B, Seeman T, Matthews K, Castellazzo G, Brownell KD, Bell J, Ickovics JR.

Health Psychology Program, University of California, San Francisco 94143-0848, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: Excessive central fat puts one at greater risk of disease. In animal studies, stress-induced cortisol secretion has been shown to increase central fat. The objective of this study was to assess whether women with central fat distribution (as indicated by a high waist-to-hip ratio [WHR]), across a range of body mass indexes, display consistently heightened cortisol reactivity to repeated laboratory stressors. METHODS: Fifty-nine healthy premenopausal women, 30 with a high WHR and 29 with a low WHR, were exposed to consecutive laboratory sessions over 4 days (three stress sessions and one rest session). During these sessions, cortisol and psychological responses were assessed. RESULTS: Women with a high WHR evaluated the laboratory challenges as more threatening, performed more poorly on them, and reported more chronic stress. These women secreted significantly more cortisol during the first stress session than women with a low WHR. Furthermore, lean women with a high WHR lacked habituation to stress in that they continued to secrete significantly more cortisol in response to now familiar challenges (days 2 and 3) than lean women with a low WHR. CONCLUSIONS: Central fat distribution is related to greater psychological vulnerability to stress and cortisol reactivity. This may be especially true among lean women, who did not habituate to repeated stress. The current cross-sectional findings support the hypothesis that stress-induced cortisol secretion may contribute to central fat and demonstrate a link between psychological stress and risk for disease.

PMID: 11020091 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
Big Bad Buff said:
I think it would be helpful you to do a little more research on the topic before spreading misinformation. Here, this should get you started.

http://www.winltdusa.com/about/infocenter/healthnews/articles/fat.htm

After you get through with that here's a study you can ponder.


Endocr Rev. 2002 Apr;23(2):201-29. Related Articles, Links


Disordered fat storage and mobilization in the pathogenesis of insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes.

Lewis GF, Carpentier A, Adeli K, Giacca A.

Department of Medicine, Division of Endocrinology, University of Toronto, Canada M5G 2C4. [email protected]

The primary genetic, environmental, and metabolic factors responsible for causing insulin resistance and pancreatic beta-cell failure and the precise sequence of events leading to the development of type 2 diabetes are not yet fully understood. Abnormalities of triglyceride storage and lipolysis in insulin-sensitive tissues are an early manifestation of conditions characterized by insulin resistance and are detectable before the development of postprandial or fasting hyperglycemia. Increased free fatty acid (FFA) flux from adipose tissue to nonadipose tissue, resulting from abnormalities of fat metabolism, participates in and amplifies many of the fundamental metabolic derangements that are characteristic of the insulin resistance syndrome and type 2 diabetes. It is also likely to play an important role in the progression from normal glucose tolerance to fasting hyperglycemia and conversion to frank type 2 diabetes in insulin resistant individuals. Adverse metabolic consequences of increased FFA flux, to be discussed in this review, are extremely wide ranging and include, but are not limited to: 1) dyslipidemia and hepatic steatosis, 2) impaired glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity in muscle and liver, 3) diminished insulin clearance, aggravating peripheral tissue hyperinsulinemia, and 4) impaired pancreatic beta-cell function. The precise biochemical mechanisms whereby fatty acids and cytosolic triglycerides exert their effects remain poorly understood. Recent studies, however, suggest that the sequence of events may be the following: in states of positive net energy balance, triglyceride accumulation in "fat-buffering" adipose tissue is limited by the development of adipose tissue insulin resistance. This results in diversion of energy substrates to nonadipose tissue, which in turn leads to a complex array of metabolic abnormalities characteristic of insulin-resistant states and type 2 diabetes. Recent evidence suggests that some of the biochemical mechanisms whereby glucose and fat exert adverse effects in insulin-sensitive and insulin-producing tissues are shared, thus implicating a diabetogenic role for energy excess as a whole. Although there is now evidence that weight loss through reduction of caloric intake and increase in physical activity can prevent the development of diabetes, it remains an open question as to whether specific modulation of fat metabolism will result in improvement in some or all of the above metabolic derangements or will prevent progression from insulin resistance syndrome to type 2 diabetes.

PMID: 11943743 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
That's about diabetes. I'm talking about normal people, with normal insulin responses.

You're trying to say that cortisol increases fat storage, and I'm the one spreading misinformation. And don't start about research...I'm sure I've read more about metabolism in the past 2 months than you have in your life. And I'm not reading websites.



Singleton...I think what's going on here is the fact that we might be talking about two different things. I'm talking about immediate physiological actions of cortisol, you may be thinking about long-term elevations in serum cortisol. Of course, if you have constantly elevated levels of cortisol, you're gonna be fatter because you've broken down so much muscle. On top of that, all that stress has behavioral effects such as a high probability of high fat diet...as well as other problem-causing lifestyle differences.

But immediately...if your cortisol levels are high, you will burn fat.
 
Bulldog_10 said:
That's about diabetes. I'm talking about normal people, with normal insulin responses.

You're trying to say that cortisol increases fat storage, and I'm the one spreading misinformation. And don't start about research...I'm sure I've read more about metabolism in the past 2 months than you have in your life. And I'm not reading websites.

OMG, are you for real? One of the functions of cortisol is to trigger a glucocorticoid effect - helping the body produce blood sugar from proteins. Excess glucose is then used for lipogenesis (fat production).

For someone that claims to be so well read on the topic you lack even the most basic understanding of cortisol.
 
Big Bad Buff said:
OMG, are you for real? One of the functions of cortisol is to trigger a glucocorticoid effect - helping the body produce blood sugar from proteins. Excess glucose is then used for lipogenesis (fat production).

For someone that claims to be so well read on the topic you lack even the most basic understanding of cortisol.

Agreed! But you said it yourself. Excess glucose. A normal person (without diabeties) will use that blood sugar for energy and will not be stored as fat. Thus there will be both a reduction in BW and LBM.
 
Big Bad Buff said:
OMG, are you for real? One of the functions of cortisol is to trigger a glucocorticoid effect - helping the body produce blood sugar from proteins. Excess glucose is then used for lipogenesis (fat production).

For someone that claims to be so well read on the topic you lack even the most basic understanding of cortisol.


I don't know what to say bro...so the body breaks down protein in order to store more fat? I don't think so. It breaks it down in order to use it as energy.


A few studies on normal humans:




Title: Neuroendocrine perturbations as a cause of insulin resistance.
Author, Editor, Inventor: Bjorntorp-Per {a}
Author Address: {a} Department of Heart and Lung Diseases, Sahlgren's Hospital, University of Goteborg, S-413 45, Goteborg, Sweden
Source: Diabetes-Metabolism-Research-and-Reviews. Nov.-Dec., 1999; 15 (6): 427-441.
Publication Year: 1999
Document Type: Article-
ISSN (International Standard Serial Number): 1520-7552
Language: English
Language of Summary: English
Abstract: Insulin resistance is followed by several prevalent diseases. The most common condition with insulin resistance is obesity, particularly when localized to abdominal, visceral regions. A summary of recent reviews on the pathogenesis of systemic insulin resistance indicates that major factors are decreased insulin effects on muscular glycogen synthase or preceding steps in the insulin signalling cascade, on endogenous glucose production and on circulating free fatty acids (FFA) from adipose tissue lipolysis. Contributions of morphologic changes in muscle and other factors are considered more uncertain. Newly developed methodology has made it possible to determine more precisely the neuroendocrine abnormalities in abdominal obesity including increased cortisol and adrenal androgen secretions. This is probably due to a hyperactivity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, amplified by inefficient feedback inhibition by central glucocorticoid receptors, associated with molecular genetic defects. Secondly, secretion of gender-specific sex steroid hormones becomes inhibited and the sympathetic nervous system activated. At this stage the HPA axis shows signs of a 'burned-out' condition, and cortisol secretion is no longer elevated. Cortisol counteracts the insulin activation of glycogen synthase in muscle, the insulin inhibition of hepatic glucose production and the insulin inhibition of lipolysis in adipose tissue, leading to the well-established systemic insulin resistance caused by excess cortisol. This is exaggerated by increased free fatty acid mobilization, particularly with a concomitant elevation of the activity of the sympathetic nervous system. Furthermore, capillarization and fiber composition in muscle are changed. These are the identical perturbations responsible for insulin resistance in recent reviews. The diminished sex steroid secretion in abdominal obesity has the same consequences. It is thus clear that insulin resistance may be induced by neuroendocrine abnormalities, such as those seen in abdominal obesity. These endocrine perturbations also direct excess fat to visceral fat depots via mechanisms that are largely known, indicating why abdominal obesity is commonly associated with insulin resistance. This possible background to the most prevalent condition of insulin resistance has been revealed by development of methodology that allows sufficiently sensitive measurements of HPA axis activity. These findings demonstrate the power of neuroendocrine regulations for somatic health.




Title: Effect of cortisol on energy expenditure and amino acid metabolism in humans.
Author, Editor, Inventor: Brillon-D-J; Zheng-B; Campbell-R-G; Matthews-D-E {a}
Author Address: {a} Cornell Univ. Med. Coll., 1300 York Ave., Box 149, New York, NY 10021, USA
Source: American-Journal-of-Physiology. 1995; 268 (3 PART 1) E501-E513.
Publication Year: 1995
Document Type: Article-
ISSN (International Standard Serial Number): 0002-9513
Language: English
Abstract: Hydrocortisone was infused overnight into nine normal healthy adults on three occasions at 0, 80, and 200 mu-g.kg-1.h-1, producing plasma cortisol concentrations of 10.6 +- 1.2, 34.0 +- 2.0, and 64.9 +- 4.3 mu-g/dl, respectively. L-(1-13C)leucine, L-(phenyl-2H-5)phenylalanine, and L-(2-15N)glutamine were infused during the last 7 h of hypercortisolemia to measure amino acid kinetics. During the last 3.5 h, somatostatin, glucagon, and insulin were infused to reduce the cortisol-induced elevation in plasma insulin to basal. Hypercortisolemia increased plasma glucose, free fatty acid (FFA), and insulin concentrations. Institution of the somatostatin clamp returned insulin to basal but increased glucose and FFA. Acute hypercortisolemia increased protein breakdown 5-20%, as measured by increases in leucine and phenylalanine appearance rates. Normalizing insulin during hypercortisolemia did not alter phenylalanine flux but enhanced leucine appearance rate, the fatter result indicating that insulin was affecting leucine metabolism during hypercortisolemia. The fraction of the leucine flux that was oxidized was not significantly increased with hypercortisolemia, but disposal by the nonoxidative route of leucine uptake for protein synthesis was increased. Hypercortisolemia increased cycling of amino acids by increasing protein breakdown and synthesis, but the increase in this process could have increased resting energy expenditure (REE) only 1-2%. Hypercortisolemia increased glutamine flux in a dose-dependent fashion through an increase in de novo synthesis, which presumably reflects increased release from skeletal muscle. Hypercortisolemia increased REE 9-15% at the 80 and 200 mu-g cntdot kg-1 cntdot h-1 infusion rates. Respiratory quotient did not rise with cortisol infusion but tended to decrease, suggesting that the increase in REE was fueled by increased oxidation of fat. These data demonstrate that hypercortisolemia increases metabolic rate and may be in part responsible for the hypermetabolic state in injury.
 
Bulldog_10 said:
Singleton...I think what's going on here is the fact that we might be talking about two different things. I'm talking about immediate physiological actions of cortisol, you may be thinking about long-term elevations in serum cortisol. Of course, if you have constantly elevated levels of cortisol, you're gonna be fatter because you've broken down so much muscle. On top of that, all that stress has behavioral effects such as a high probability of high fat diet...as well as other problem-causing lifestyle differences.

But immediately...if your cortisol levels are high, you will burn fat.

OK. You appear to be correct on the point that cortisol breaks fat down. I've done some more reading, however, cortisol has a pretty nasty effect on lean muscle tissue -- it breaks it down!

In "Stress and body shape: stress-induced cortisol secretion is consistently greater among women with central fat," the subjects' cortisol elevation was not cronic. It showed normal, healthy women that had higher cortisol had higher ratios of central fat.

I'll have to reasearch this more.
 
Bulldog_10 said:
I don't know what to say bro...so the body breaks down protein in order to store more fat? I don't think so. It breaks it down in order to use it as energy.


A few studies on normal humans:




Title: Neuroendocrine perturbations as a cause of insulin resistance.
Author, Editor, Inventor: Bjorntorp-Per {a}
Author Address: {a} Department of Heart and Lung Diseases, Sahlgren's Hospital, University of Goteborg, S-413 45, Goteborg, Sweden
Source: Diabetes-Metabolism-Research-and-Reviews. Nov.-Dec., 1999; 15 (6): 427-441.
Publication Year: 1999
Document Type: Article-
ISSN (International Standard Serial Number): 1520-7552
Language: English
Language of Summary: English
Abstract: Insulin resistance is followed by several prevalent diseases. The most common condition with insulin resistance is obesity, particularly when localized to abdominal, visceral regions. A summary of recent reviews on the pathogenesis of systemic insulin resistance indicates that major factors are decreased insulin effects on muscular glycogen synthase or preceding steps in the insulin signalling cascade, on endogenous glucose production and on circulating free fatty acids (FFA) from adipose tissue lipolysis. Contributions of morphologic changes in muscle and other factors are considered more uncertain. Newly developed methodology has made it possible to determine more precisely the neuroendocrine abnormalities in abdominal obesity including increased cortisol and adrenal androgen secretions. This is probably due to a hyperactivity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, amplified by inefficient feedback inhibition by central glucocorticoid receptors, associated with molecular genetic defects. Secondly, secretion of gender-specific sex steroid hormones becomes inhibited and the sympathetic nervous system activated. At this stage the HPA axis shows signs of a 'burned-out' condition, and cortisol secretion is no longer elevated. Cortisol counteracts the insulin activation of glycogen synthase in muscle, the insulin inhibition of hepatic glucose production and the insulin inhibition of lipolysis in adipose tissue, leading to the well-established systemic insulin resistance caused by excess cortisol. This is exaggerated by increased free fatty acid mobilization, particularly with a concomitant elevation of the activity of the sympathetic nervous system. Furthermore, capillarization and fiber composition in muscle are changed. These are the identical perturbations responsible for insulin resistance in recent reviews. The diminished sex steroid secretion in abdominal obesity has the same consequences. It is thus clear that insulin resistance may be induced by neuroendocrine abnormalities, such as those seen in abdominal obesity. These endocrine perturbations also direct excess fat to visceral fat depots via mechanisms that are largely known, indicating why abdominal obesity is commonly associated with insulin resistance. This possible background to the most prevalent condition of insulin resistance has been revealed by development of methodology that allows sufficiently sensitive measurements of HPA axis activity. These findings demonstrate the power of neuroendocrine regulations for somatic health.




Title: Effect of cortisol on energy expenditure and amino acid metabolism in humans.
Author, Editor, Inventor: Brillon-D-J; Zheng-B; Campbell-R-G; Matthews-D-E {a}
Author Address: {a} Cornell Univ. Med. Coll., 1300 York Ave., Box 149, New York, NY 10021, USA
Source: American-Journal-of-Physiology. 1995; 268 (3 PART 1) E501-E513.
Publication Year: 1995
Document Type: Article-
ISSN (International Standard Serial Number): 0002-9513
Language: English
Abstract: Hydrocortisone was infused overnight into nine normal healthy adults on three occasions at 0, 80, and 200 mu-g.kg-1.h-1, producing plasma cortisol concentrations of 10.6 +- 1.2, 34.0 +- 2.0, and 64.9 +- 4.3 mu-g/dl, respectively. L-(1-13C)leucine, L-(phenyl-2H-5)phenylalanine, and L-(2-15N)glutamine were infused during the last 7 h of hypercortisolemia to measure amino acid kinetics. During the last 3.5 h, somatostatin, glucagon, and insulin were infused to reduce the cortisol-induced elevation in plasma insulin to basal. Hypercortisolemia increased plasma glucose, free fatty acid (FFA), and insulin concentrations. Institution of the somatostatin clamp returned insulin to basal but increased glucose and FFA. Acute hypercortisolemia increased protein breakdown 5-20%, as measured by increases in leucine and phenylalanine appearance rates. Normalizing insulin during hypercortisolemia did not alter phenylalanine flux but enhanced leucine appearance rate, the fatter result indicating that insulin was affecting leucine metabolism during hypercortisolemia. The fraction of the leucine flux that was oxidized was not significantly increased with hypercortisolemia, but disposal by the nonoxidative route of leucine uptake for protein synthesis was increased. Hypercortisolemia increased cycling of amino acids by increasing protein breakdown and synthesis, but the increase in this process could have increased resting energy expenditure (REE) only 1-2%. Hypercortisolemia increased glutamine flux in a dose-dependent fashion through an increase in de novo synthesis, which presumably reflects increased release from skeletal muscle. Hypercortisolemia increased REE 9-15% at the 80 and 200 mu-g cntdot kg-1 cntdot h-1 infusion rates. Respiratory quotient did not rise with cortisol infusion but tended to decrease, suggesting that the increase in REE was fueled by increased oxidation of fat. These data demonstrate that hypercortisolemia increases metabolic rate and may be in part responsible for the hypermetabolic state in injury.

Do you read your own studies? You basically just re-stated what I've been saying - "elevated levels of cortisol will result in lipogenesis" - In essence you are arguing with yourself as the above studies are in direct contrast to what you've been contending all along.
 
Big Bad Buff said:
Do you read your own studies? You basically just re-stated what I've been saying - "elevated levels of cortisol will result in lipogenesis" - In essence you are arguing with yourself as the above studies are in direct contrast to what you've been contending all along.


I'm done with you.

Singleton...I've been saying that all along. Cortisol breaks down fat and muscle...in order to increase blood glucose levels. So we're in agreement, finally :)
 
Big Bad Buff said:
Do you read your own studies? You basically just re-stated what I've been saying - "elevated levels of cortisol will result in lipogenesis" - In essence you are arguing with yourself as the above studies are in direct contrast to what you've been contending all along.


ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE? Or are you just trying to screw with my head? If that's the case, mission accomplished.

Nowhere did I say that elevated levels of cortisol will result in lipogenesis.

Ok...NOW I'm done.
 
It looks as though cortisol does lead to abdominal fat gain. Big Cat mentions it in passing here, http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/losefatnow3.htm , under "Cortisol"

And here's a discussion of the study I posted earlier:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001120072314.htm

And here's another article:
http://health.discovery.com/centers/womens/weight_loss/ten_tips.html

I'm trying to figure out how it's related to 11 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, and enzyme which converts cortisone to cortisol.

So cortisol may be a contributing to fat gain.

What effect does cortisol have on appetite?
 
I disagree with the cardio comment.
Have you thought about the health beifits of cardio?

better sleep
decreased cholesterol
increased energy
lymphatic system stimulation
not to mention fat burning.

I truly believe that the people who don't do cardio are just plain lazy. I'm also dead set certain that if I didn't do cardio every morning, then I would have never got down to 4.5% for my show. The drugs alone just wouldn't have done it.
 
hairlossguru said:
I disagree with the cardio comment.
Have you thought about the health beifits of cardio?

better sleep
decreased cholesterol
increased energy
lymphatic system stimulation
not to mention fat burning.

I truly believe that the people who don't do cardio are just plain lazy. I'm also dead set certain that if I didn't do cardio every morning, then I would have never got down to 4.5% for my show. The drugs alone just wouldn't have done it.

I had a different view on cardio, I found it was making my quads too small, no matter what kind of cardio I was doing. So I dropped it but kept the diet crazy strict, and managed to get down to around 4% without cardio for the last 6 or so weeks
 
hairlossguru said:
I disagree with the cardio comment.
Have you thought about the health beifits of cardio?

better sleep
decreased cholesterol
increased energy
lymphatic system stimulation
not to mention fat burning.

I truly believe that the people who don't do cardio are just plain lazy. I'm also dead set certain that if I didn't do cardio every morning, then I would have never got down to 4.5% for my show. The drugs alone just wouldn't have done it.

I had a different view on cardio, I found it was making my quads too small, no matter what kind of cardio I was doing. So I dropped it but kept the diet crazy strict, and managed to get down to around 4% without cardio for the last 6 or so weeks
 
I have questions regarding exercise and nutrient timing.

So insulin will lower blood sugar, cause serotonin release, and reduce cortisol, right?

Will AM cardio reduce cortisol more than eating starchy foods (carbs that convert to glucose)?

Would a small amount of carbs, followed by some cardio, followed by a full meal reduce cortisol more than morning cardio or morning starch?

I don't expect anyone to have the answers, but any insight on the matter would help.

Sitting around all day eating carbs then working out in the evening will definitely lead to fat gain, so it seems it is best to exercise earlier. In my experience, working out earlier is better for fat loss. I cannot say why, but I assume that the nutrients are utilized in a more favorable manner (glycogen replenishment, not lipogenesis) post workout than pre-workout.
 
ProtienFiend said:
Agreed! But you said it yourself. Excess glucose. A normal person (without diabeties) will use that blood sugar for energy and will not be stored as fat. Thus there will be both a reduction in BW and LBM.

Please look up de novo Lipogenesis. Conversion of excess glucose to fat.

If you ingest too much glucose, over and above what your muscles, organs, and liver, can store + what you use up during the day, you will increase bodyfat stores.

A normall person WILL STORE that excess glucose as fat. Doesn't matter who.

A diabetic person will develop hyperglycaemia which has extremely harmful effects on their bodies. (Nerve problems, organ problems, ocular problems etc..)

There's quite a difference.
 
needsize said:
I had a different view on cardio, I found it was making my quads too small, no matter what kind of cardio I was doing. So I dropped it but kept the diet crazy strict, and managed to get down to around 4% without cardio for the last 6 or so weeks


Interesting! Did you try walking slowly on the treadmill on a STEEP incline. This seems to be the lowest impact in terms of muscle loss while dieting.
 
bdog527 said:
because they fired him

That's funny, I don't recall you being there. But since you know so much, please elaborate on the circumstances. I'm curious to hear your take on it.
 
Christ, Nelson. You can't even remember the people you worked with at T-Mag? Come on, you are not that old. :D
 
I find I need cardio to lose weight,I am just finishing up a small cutting phase of about 8 weeks and I ate about 1500-1700cals a day,my maintenece is 2160,with cardio 5 days a week 30 mins at 4mph on a incline and I think I lost about 3-4%bf and I was running prop and t3,I def feel the need for cardio to lose fat is something that varies from person to person.

I also feel its good to do a few times a week when bulking or I get out of breath easy from the added stress on my lungs and heart

so Nelson could you agree the need for cardio to lose fat is something that varies? my diet was very clean yet it took so long to lose that little bit of weight
 
Oak: You lost weight because you expended more calories. (And some of that weight was muscle). That could have been accomplished with more weight training, except that you would have built more muscle with the weight training. (Which in turn, will burn more fat in the long run ).
 
interesting way of looking at it I suppose,only thing I dont agree with was the muscle lost as I stayed the same weight and dropped bf which would be a muscle gain would it not?
 
hairlossguru said:
Interesting! Did you try walking slowly on the treadmill on a STEEP incline. This seems to be the lowest impact in terms of muscle loss while dieting.

what I did end up doing was going for brisk walks instead, I didnt do it too many times but it did seem to do the trick with less mass lost
 
Nelson Montana said:
Bodybuilders shouldn't do cardio. You want to raise your heart rate, do twenty rep squats with 30 second rest in between sets and then tell me your heart rate isn't elevated.

I DISAGREE AND AGREE,, NO CARDIO WHEN BULKING BUT IT IS A MUST WHEN CUTTING

Clomid blows. It works for some, not for others, and there are better options either way.

IT IS DAMN SURE BETTER THAN NOTHING, ALTHOUGH HCG IS A MUCH BETTER CHOICE

Nutrient timing is a tactic designed by book and magazine marketeers. For the most part, it's bullshit.

I HAVE TO DISAGREE FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I CAN EAT A TON OF CARBS AFTER WORKING OUT AND NOT GET FAT BUT LET ME EAT THEM LATE IN THE DAY AND I WILL

If you want to grow you must increase calories -- a lot! Yes, you'll get some fat, but after a certain point you can't grow muscle without getting bigger. You can't get bigger without eating more. As Dan Duchaine said, don't feel bad about eating a Big Mac. Feel bad that you didn't eat THREE of them!

VERY TRUE, TO MANY GUYS UNDEREAT

If you want to cut, you must increase your workload. You can't train HIT, do some cario and mix your protein with skim milk and expect to get cut.

I DISAGREE COMPLETELY I HAVE DONE IT MYSELF MANY TIMES. I HAVE GONE AS LOW AS 5% BF WITH CARDIO AND HIT TRAINING

There is no such thing as a "cutting cycle." deal with it.

TRUE

DNP is for idiots. No exceptions.

TRUE, NOT SOMETHING TO PLAY WITH

Unless you're over 6' 2", anthing over 275 pounds is unhealthy, I don't care how muscular you are, or think you are.

CARRYING A TON OF WEIGHT IS BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH NO MATTER HOW IT IS DISTRIBUTED

Big don't mean shit if you're fat.

TRUE FOR BODYBUILDERS BUT NOT FOR MOST POWERLIFTERS AND STRONGMENG

Suplements only SUPPLEMENT. They give an added edge, that's all. None of them will perform miricles but some of them help. Learn which ones do and which ones dont.

VERY TRUE

All weight lost from stimulents will come back. Every time.

IT DOES ON ME NO MATTER WHAT I DO

Visiting bodybuilding.com may result in the loss of brain cells.

LOL, TRUE

The ketogenic diet is catabolic. It causes KETOSIS for Christfucking sakes. Don't take advice from informed fools. (Fat ones at that).

IT KILLED MY MUSCLE MASS FOR SURE

If you're a vegitarian beause you don't believe in taking a life, don't bath. It kills life forms. Just stay the fuck away from me.

LOL

Oral glutimine can not be absorbed. Stop wasting your money.

THE CASE IS STILL OUT ON THIS, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BY TAKING IT EXCEPT FOR MONEY

Whatever T-Mag says, dont believe it.

LOL

Weight belts are useless. Stop kidding yourself. Something wrapped around itself can not give support.

I WOULD HAVE TO DISAGREE, I HAVE HAD MANY BACK PROBLEMS BUT NONE WHILE WEARING A BELT

If you can't grow on a gram of gear a week, you suck. Take up golf.

LOL, SO TRUE

Stop worrying about overtraining. Lift the fucking weights. It works.

I THINK EVERYONE HAS A LINE THAT THEY CAN CROSS AND CAUSE OVERTRAINING

That's for starters.
 
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