Anavar or Winny---which is better?

[DieselGunz]

Ok I am not adding to this so called flame war but here is my opinion

i am 27 yoa and have been lifting for 6 years now (clean). I finally decided to try my first AAS. I decided on Var because it is not overly toxic,it is a oral, and does not shut you down as hard as other gear.

My goal was to eat clean train hard and see what happened. When I started i was 6 feet 202 with about 10% I am now about 3 weeks and I am at 208 and i have dropped BF and alot of water.

My diet is intense thanx to Radar and Shadow i eat 6 times a day and moniter calories and protien. I have done 2 cardio sessions and abs three times a week.

ALL of my lifts have gone up, when i started i was benching 275 to 285 for sets and DL in the 420s for sets. Now i am doing sets with 315 and my DL is in the now in the 450s for sets. I am gettign stronger EVERY freakin day.

i am hard as a rock and veiny as all hell this shit is the BOMB...if I keep gaining weight that good but I will tell you this I love VAR

The pumps and the feeling of being tight ALL freakin day is the shit

Either way if you a woman or man try this shit, i am only on 40mgs for 8 weeks i cant wait for tomorrow, i know I will be bigger and harder.

I have never tried any other AAS so i can not compare, only writing about what i know.

 

[Joe Stenson]

bro i am not arguing that with you diet is all that matters, you cannot say that dbol test or deca is not a better choice for bulking with var though, if you were to take in 5000 cals on var vs. deca you will put on more mass with deca plain and simple. i don't wanna have a flame war, i told the guy var was fine for his first cycle thats it. take care

Fair enough. Although I still contend that it depends on your goals. 5000 cals on deca would probably bloat you like a balloon. You'd gain more WEIGHT, that's for sure. You might very well gain a bit more muscle too, but the difference won't be all that drastic and lots of people would rather gain 9lbs of pure muscle than 10lbs of muscle and 10lbs of water.

 

[Outtlaw]

"Too much" by whose standards? Like I said, lots of people are not limited by money and some will prefer to pay a premium to run drugs with less sides.

First off, it's not just about money. Who the fuck wants to take 100-150mg/day of anavar?! That's just stupid. You can get much better results by taking stronger compounds that are better suited for bulking.

 

[Outtlaw]

yea i can explain i know people who run it at 75mg ed and eat 5000cals, anavar is not known for putting on mass, if you puttin on 15 lbs with var you shouldn't be using aas.

Exactly.

 

[Outtlaw]

I love how people start assuming things and then a flame war starts, and then more things are assumed, and eventually no one even knows what they are arguing...

First, at no time in this thread did I ever recommend a var-ONLY cycle for bulking. I said there's no reason var couldn't be used on a bulk. For all you or outlaw knows that var could be part of a test/eq/deca/d-bol/var cycle. Now, if you want me to say that you can bulk on a var-only cycle, yeah I think you can, but this is the first time in the thread I've said it.

Mg for mg test is more powerful, and nothing beats d-bol. But, aside from appetite suppression (which I DID point out), there's no reason var could not be used to bulk with. Just because a drug does not cause water retention does not make it incapable in aiding a bulk.

Now you're trying to backtrack and say you're not talking about a var only cycle?? WTF do you think this whole thread has been based on? The var only or var based cycle was the only issue at hand. Anyone can throw in some var with a bunch of other compounds and claim it works great for bulking. The reality is you're getting most of your mass gains from the other gear.

It really baffles me how people come on this forum and act like they're the ultimate expert and know everything there is to know about AAS. And when people try to give them a little advice, they're not trying to hear it because there is NO WAY that they could ever not know it all.

And just so you know, not everyones gains on things like deca are all bloat. There are many people who get minimal amounts of bloat from deca with much more solid gains. So before you come on here and start trying to teach everyone what each and every drug can and cant do, you'd better get your facts straight.

 

[Joe Stenson]

First off, it's not just about money. Who the fuck wants to take 100-150mg/day of anavar?! That's just stupid. You can get much better results by taking stronger compounds that are better suited for bulking.

I think if you can afford it, and you're not overly concerned with your liver, there's nothing wrong with dosages like that. You'd take 1g of test/week. Why not 1g of var? I guarantee that if nothing else, you'd FEEL a lot better on a gram of var.

And don't give any of this BS about "if you can gain a good amount of muscle on var you shouldn't be using gear in the first place". A better quote would be "if you CAN'T gain a good amount of muscle on var you shouldn't be using gear in the first place"...because you obviously don't have your diet and training dialed in.

And again, a very advanced bodybuilder isn't going to run a var-only cycle and I was never recommending it in the first place. But I don't think very many guys on elite are past the point where they couldn't make gains off a decent dose of var.

And yes, on a per $ basis, there are better compounds.

 

[Joe Stenson]

The reality is you're getting most of your mass gains from the other gear.

Actually, the reality is you're getting most of your mass gains from the food you're eating. Steroids only help you make better use of the calories you supply your body, they don't just build muscle on their own.

Which again is why ANY steroid can be used to cut or bulk. It's the dietary manipulations that make the difference. Some steroids are better suited for one purpose or another based on things like increased/decreased appetite or bloat (something you may not want while cutting).

It really baffles me how people come on this forum and act like they're the ultimate expert and know everything there is to know about AAS. And when people try to give them a little advice, they're not trying to hear it because there is NO WAY that they could ever not know it all.

Wow, that sounds shockingly familiar...

And just so you know, not everyones gains on things like deca are all bloat. There are many people who get minimal amounts of bloat from deca with much more solid gains. So before you come on here and start trying to teach everyone what each and every drug can and cant do, you'd better get your facts straight.

The point of the comparison was not the numbers used, but the simple fact that deca is going to bloat you to a degree and var will not. How much bloat is going to vary based on the individual and ancillaries used. If you're disagreeing with this I don't know what else to say.

As for var-only vs with other compounds, you said this awhile ago:

But why anyone at an advanced level would want to bulk with one of the mildest anabolics available is beyond me. There are much better choices IMO.

I don't think many "advanced level" bodybuilders are going to be running single compound cycles anyway, so that kind of defeats your whole argument...

And again, it doesn't make sense to compare 40mg var/day to 500mg or 1g of test/week. You're taking LESS of a WEAKER drug. Obviously one is going to make it easier to bulk than the other.

If you cannot afford to run enough var to make a decent cycle out of it, then that's a different story...something I've already said a few times in this thread.

 

[bicepts101]

hey you guys take this shit up in another thread, i'm sure this poor girl did not come in here to watch a pissing match....
show her some respect please...

fuck that this shit is great!!!

 

[Outtlaw]

And again, it doesn't make sense to compare 40mg var/day to 500mg or 1g of test/week. You're taking LESS of a WEAKER drug. Obviously one is going to make it easier to bulk than the other.

If you were taking the same amount of a weaker drug, you still would get lesser effects. But you cant seem to grasp this concept.

Your whole theory is based on the idea that by taking mega doses of weaker drugs, you can bulk just as good, if not better than with stronger compounds. Well prove it. Find somebody who has the physique of a reagional / national level competitor (or someone close to it) who bulks with var based cycles. Im betting you wont be able to do it. Why? because you dont get to that level physically by running var based cycles.

So you tell me how a var based cycle can be more effective than other bulkers? If that was the case, then everyone would be bulking with var.

 

[Joe Stenson]

If you were taking the same amount of a weaker drug, you still would get lesser effects. But you cant seem to grasp this concept.

Yes I can. At no point did I ever say bulking with var is optimal. There's a concept you don't seem to grasp .

I'm not even recommending it either. I was merely pointing out a BS myth (that you can't gain mass with var) that doesn't need to be propagated throughout this board.

And just a question out of curiousity. If you took the SAME guy, had him eat the SAME diet, and do the SAME training, but had him take 1g var as opposed to 1g of test exactly how much better do you think his gains would be on the test? Once PCT is said and done and we're only talking about muscle gained, I can legitimately see a difference of a lb or two. It seems like you're thinking the difference would be much more substantial.

Your whole theory is based on the idea that by taking mega doses of weaker drugs, you can bulk just as good, if not better than with stronger compounds. Well prove it. Find somebody who has the physique of a reagional / national level competitor (or someone close to it) who bulks with var based cycles. Im betting you wont be able to do it. Why? because you dont get to that level physically by running var based cycles.

So you tell me how a var based cycle can be more effective than other bulkers? If that was the case, then everyone would be bulking with var.

Now that you don't have much to go on, you're putting words in my mouth. Please tell me where I ever said a var-based cycle is going to be MORE effective than other bulkers. For that matter, point me to where I even said it would be as effective. I didn't. I've simply been contending your initial point that you don't see why people would bulk with var. It's like saying you don't understand why people would eat chicken because steak is better. And if that were the argument, I would contend that you could do just fine eating chicken...much like you can do just fine using var.

Additionally, I'm not sure why you insist on mentioning regional or national-level competitors. How many guys on this board fall into that category?

And once again, guys at that level are not, for the most part anyway, running single compound cycles.