Anavar cycle...HTPA

[funkyfresh]

Hi guys,

I'm planning my first AAS cycle in a couple of months and after much debate, I have decided on an 8 week Anavar cycle @ 50-60mg each day.

Now I know some guys will argue that you should always use test as the base of a cycle...etc. but I have decided against this for a variety of reasons.

I don't expect amazing gains on such a cycle as this, but that is a seperate debate.

My main question was regarding HTPA shutdown.

I have done my homework on Var and am in the process of getting everything prepared for my cycle, including various supplements..etc. to help minimise the potential negative side effects such a raised LDL cholesterol, liver toxicity, kidney strain..etc.

I am thinking of taking some unleashed/myogenX stack throughout the cycle to help prevent a major crash in HTPA supression, but I was also wondering if it may be a good idea to take some low dose Nolvadex during the cycle aswell?

I intend to use Nolvadex for PCT, but would taking a super low dose such 5mg ed or even every other day be of any benefit? or even some low dose arimidex for that matter?

I understand this may contribute to a potential increase in liver toxicity, but I do intend to take milk thistle & liv52 throughout the cycle to keep liver values in check.

Here is a list of things I'll be using throught the cycle and PCT which I'm hoping will help minimise any negatives in my bloodwork:

ANAVAR = 50 - 60mg ED
ANIMAL PAK MULTI VITAMIN
VITAMIN B12
CISSUS (for joint support)
HYALURONIC ACID + COLLAGEN (for joint support)
GREEN TEA EXTRACT (for cholesterol and antioxidant support)
N-ACETYL-L-CYSTEINE (NAC) = 1g ED (for liver support)
NA R-ALPHA LIPOIC ACID (NAR-ALA) = 100mg ED (for antioxidant support)
HAWTHORN BERRIES = 900mg ED (for cholesterol and heart support)
GARLIC POWDER = 900mg ED (for cholesterol and heart support)
COENZYME Q10 = 300mg ED (for antioxidant support)
BETA SITOSTEROL = 1g ED (for cholesterol support)
ACETYL L-CARNITINE = 2g ED (for antioxidant and energy support)
CRANBERRY EXTRACT (10:1) = 800mg ED (for kidney support)
MILK THISTLE (80% SILYMARIN) = 1g ED (for liver support)
LIV 52 = 4 caps ED (for liver support)
NIACIN (flush free) = 500mg - 1g ED (for cholesterol support)
EFA'S (Krill Oil, Udo's Oil Blend, Olive Oil) = upto 50g ED (for cholesterol support and help raise HDL)
UNLEASHED = 6 Caps ED (for HTPA suppression)
MYOGEN X = 6 Caps ED (for testosterone boost)

Thanks guys

 

[kyoshi6]

Hi guys,

I'm planning my first anabolic androgenic steroids cycle in a couple of months and after much debate, I have decided on an 8 week Anavar cycle @ 50-60mg each day.

Now I know some guys will argue that you should always use test as the base of a cycle...etc. but I have decided against this for a variety of reasons.

I don't expect amazing gains on such a cycle as this, but that is a seperate debate.

My main question was regarding HTPA shutdown.

I have done my homework on Anavar - oxandrolone - and am in the process of getting everything prepared for my cycle, including various supplements..etc. to help minimise the potential negative side effects such a raised LDL cholesterol, liver toxicity, kidney strain..etc.

I am thinking of taking some unleashed/myogenX stack throughout the cycle to help prevent a major crash in HTPA supression, but I was also wondering if it may be a good idea to take some low dose Nolvadex during the cycle aswell?

I intend to use Nolvadex for PCT - post cycle therapy - , but would taking a super low dose such 5mg ed or even every other day be of any benefit? or even some low dose arimidex for that matter?

I understand this may contribute to a potential increase in liver toxicity, but I do intend to take milk thistle & liv52 throughout the cycle to keep liver values in check.

Here is a list of things I'll be using throught the cycle and PCT which I'm hoping will help minimise any negatives in my bloodwork:

ANAVAR = 50 - 60mg ED
ANIMAL PAK MULTI VITAMIN
VITAMIN B12
CISSUS (for joint support)
HYALURONIC ACID + COLLAGEN (for joint support)
GREEN TEA EXTRACT (for cholesterol and antioxidant support)
N-ACETYL-L-CYSTEINE (NAC) = 1g ED (for liver support)
NA R-ALPHA LIPOIC ACID (NAR-alpha lipoic acid) = 100mg ED (for antioxidant support)
HAWTHORN BERRIES = 900mg ED (for cholesterol and heart support)
GARLIC POWDER = 900mg ED (for cholesterol and heart support)
COENZYME Q10 = 300mg ED (for antioxidant support)
BETA SITOSTEROL = 1g ED (for cholesterol support)
ACETYL L-CARNITINE = 2g ED (for antioxidant and energy support)
CRANBERRY EXTRACT (10:1) = 800mg ED (for kidney support)
MILK THISTLE (80% SILYMARIN) = 1g ED (for liver support)
LIV 52 = 4 caps ED (for liver support)
NIACIN (flush free) = 500mg - 1g ED (for cholesterol support)
EFA'S (Krill Oil, Udo's Oil Blend, Olive Oil) = upto 50g ED (for cholesterol support and help raise HDL)
UNLEASHED = 6 Caps ED (for HTPA suppression)
MYOGEN X = 6 Caps ED (for testosterone boost)

Thanks guys

Sounds like you have done some research. I like test as my base but you have ur reasons..

 

[#STEW MEAT#]

Oxandralone will suppress hpta . but will not completly "shut it down." After about 10 weeks, you'll loose probably around 50% of your normal capacity to produce testosterone.


-Stew

 

[big greg 82]

^yep yep

 

[funkyfresh]

thanks for the replies guys.

So would running some low dose nolvadex or arimidex on cycle be a good idea?

 

[#STEW MEAT#]

I see no point in either. If your nuts have atrophied toward the end of your cycle, get some HCG overnighted, otherwise, start using clomid 50mg ed the week before you stop, then bump to 100mg ed the week after... then back down to 50mg. Somepeople tolerate clomid well, others get depressed. But honestly, you really don't even have to have the clomid. That amount of Anavar isn't going to seriously affect your testosterone production unless you're middle aged.


-Stew

 

[gslben]

Planning on the same thing.

Well laid-out question with some good answers..THX

 

[#STEW MEAT#]

ANAVAR = 50 - 60mg ED
Better than nothing, but don't expect the kind of results you'd get from a real cycle. But hey, they're about a dollar or so for a cap... better than the benefit you'll get from the same investment in other supps.

About the rest:

ANIMAL PAK MULTI VITAMIN
good choice

VITAMIN B12
low bioavailbility orally, waste of money unless you're going to inject. Its already in the animal packs

CISSUS (for joint support)
...maybe

HYALURONIC ACID + COLLAGEN (for joint support)
Anavar supports joints and overall healing of ligaments. Use if you've got the money...

GREEN TEA EXTRACT (for cholesterol and antioxidant support)
Good fat burner and has other beneficial side effects.

N-ACETYL-L-CYSTEINE (NAC) = 1g ED (for liver support)
NA R-ALPHA LIPOIC ACID (NAR-alpha lipoic acid) = 100mg ED (for antioxidant support)
HAWTHORN BERRIES = 900mg ED (for cholesterol and heart support)
GARLIC POWDER = 900mg ED (for cholesterol and heart support)
COENZYME Q10 = 300mg ED (for antioxidant support)
BETA SITOSTEROL = 1g ED (for cholesterol support)
ACETYL L-CARNITINE = 2g ED (for antioxidant and energy support)
MILK THISTLE (80% SILYMARIN) = 1g ED (for liver support)
LIV 52 = 4 caps ED (for liver support)
NIACIN (flush free) = 500mg - 1g ED (for cholesterol support)
EFA'S (Krill Oil, Udo's Oil Blend, Olive Oil) = upto 50g ED (for cholesterol support and help raise HDL)

No need for any of this. Oxandralone doesn't have the same negative effects on cholestorol that other steroids have. It has virtually NO liver toxicity.

CRANBERRY EXTRACT (10:1) = 800mg ED (for kidney support)
Use anytime your taking in a lot of protein. By products of protein synthesis leads to problems with kidneys... on a cycle or not. This is always a good idea in my opinion.

UNLEASHED = 6 Caps ED (for HTPA suppression)
MYOGEN X = 6 Caps ED (for testosterone boost)
Have you looked at the ingredients of these products? If you trust the product, go with it. If it works, good... if it doesn't, you're belief in the product will give you a placebo effect.



SUPPLEMENT WITH CREATINE



-Stew

 

[Papa Lion]

I think this stew guy is an alter persoanlly! however I agree with him right down to the the products he listed at the bottom.. alot of the other id\s unnec. but anavar WILL shut you down!! and I would follow a proper pct...hcg, clomid/nolva

 

[funkyfresh]

Hey Stew,

Thank you for taking the time to share your advice dude, I appriciate it

"Better than nothing, but don't expect the kind of results you'd get from a real cycle. But hey, they're about a dollar or so for a cap... better than the benefit you'll get from the same investment in other supps"

Yes, I am being realistic about this. I don't expect to gain a ton of mass on such a cycle or expecting amazing results, but I am hoping that with a solid diet plan I can gain a good 10lbs (which I don't think is that unrealistic over the course of 8 - 10 weeks TBH) which I will be able to hold onto. I am not expecting the results to be that dramatic, but I am hoping for some nice strength increases (mainly) and a few more lbs of quality lean muscle mass.

I'm one of those guys who believes in quality over quantity. To me, gaining 5 or 10lbs of quality muscle mass over a year which I am able to sustain is a good achievement.
I appriciate that bodybuilding isn't short term and it takes time.

Trouble is, it seems a lot of people want everything right away and aren't prepared to take the time and put in the work. So they keep trying to look for shortcuts or the easy way out. TBH, I'm kind of shocked after reading about the amounts of juice some guys are taking. Seems they start to rely more and more on what AAS cycles they are doing over their nutrition, lifestyle, training..etc. But that is a different debate.


I know a lot of guys say Anavar is a mild compound, and this may be true when you compare it to other meds such as Test, Dbol or Tren. But it does increase protein synthesis by around 40% and has a decent anabolic ratio.

In regards to the Unleashed and MyogenX. I have done some research on the ingredients in these and they look fairly promising. But again, as with any brand supplement....you have the marketing hype which goes with it.
I am normally pretty warey of most supplements with bogus claims and the aggressive advertising..etc..but from what I've heard from other people, these products sound fairly solid and do deliver somewhat, so I though what the hell, I'll give them a whirl.

Thanks again to all you guys for the advice

 

[#STEW MEAT#]

"Alter"? I'm not familiar with this term....



-Stew

 

[thesuaveone]

"Alter"? I'm not familiar with this term....



-Stew

Alter or Ulter?

 

[raider187]

I see no point in either. If your nuts have atrophied toward the end of your cycle, get some HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - overnighted, otherwise, start using clomid 50mg ed the week before you stop, then bump to 100mg ed the week after... then back down to 50mg. Somepeople tolerate clomid well, others get depressed. But honestly, you really don't even have to have the clomid. That amount of Anavar isn't going to seriously affect your testosterone production unless you're middle aged.


-Stew

Alter = Alter Ego or a Alternate ID for a regular poster... People sometimes use a "alter" for messing around or anonimity.

Do you think unleashed would be a good insurance policy to prevent HTPA reduction? My other question. If you do get some shutdown, will you bounce back with clomid or is HCG a must?

 

[#STEW MEAT#]

1: J Pediatr. 1979 Apr;94(4):657-62.Links
The effect of synthetic androgens on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis Hopwood NJ, Kelch RP, Zipf WB, Hernandez RJ.
Serial concentrations of basal serum LH, FSH, testosterone, and LH and FSH responses to intravenous gonadotropin-releasing hormone were measured before and during six months of administration of oxandrolone in 14 boys in order to assess the effects of these androgens on maturation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis. Before therapy all boys had normal hormonal responses based on bone age. At the end of six months therapy 10 of the 14 boys had lower LH responses (34 to 89% reduction) to GnRH without consistent changes in FSH responses. With both androgens, there there was significant suppression of both basal serum FSH and testosterone. Eleven boys were restudied six months after completion of therapy; basal serum LH, FSH, and testosterone and responses to GnRH were equal to or greater than pretreatment levels, indicating recovery or progressive maturation of the HPGA. All boys had increased growth velocity and imporved weight gain without excessive bone age advancement; all had improved psychosocial adjustment.

PMID: 372514 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



The above study ran the oxandralone for 24 weeks and only 10 of 14 saw suppression of HPTA. And of those 10, it was only suppression of LH ranged from only 39-89%.


-Stew

 

[raider187]

Did I read that right they all recovered naturally? Intersting, I'm no kid, but that is a pretty positive study. I'm also doing a 7wk run in wk3 right now, at 60mg ED. I'm not having any problems, the boys are still with me. I don't know what the whole shutdown feeling is, it has always concerned me though. I'm running clomid and derma-sustain post cycle.

I still wonder I should take some unleashed as a precaution?


Thanks Again!

 

[Bruce]

there is nothing wrong with doing anavar only. i have run e q at 800mg ew without test and many even t r e n without test. i only use a maintenence dose of test at 125 mg ew when necessary. there is also no reason at all to run all of that shit with the var. first off the last thing you have to worry about with var is your liver. i have run winny for 6 months before and it didn't do shit to my liver. tylenol is harder on the liver. you have to worry about what it will do to your cholesterol. the only thing you can do is take nolva imo to combat this. 20mg ed is good. for your pct i would run clomid at 50mg ed for 3 weeks after your last day of clomid. the supps are not gonna do you any good. just drink a gallon of water ed at a minimum and that is the only supp you need. protein and food too. good luck

 

[#STEW MEAT#]

Alter = Alter Ego or a Alternate ID for a regular poster... People sometimes use a "alter" for messing around or anonimity.

Do you think unleashed would be a good insurance policy to prevent HTPA reduction? My other question. If you do get some shutdown, will you bounce back with clomid or is HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - a must?

I don't know enough about "Unleashed" to give you advice on it. I looked at their marketing advertisement and it sounds good... but don't they all. Hell, the ad for "NanoVapor" got me and I wasted $40. I haven't taken the time to search for studies demonstrating positive results from the active ingredients.

"Bouncing back" has a lot to do with your pituatary's resistance to suppression. One easy way to tell is by your nut size. The degree of atrophy is directly related to the amount of testosterone your capable of producing. But this is not a perfect linear relationship. Most of the "nut shrinkage" isn't due to shutdown of leydig, but of serotoli. LH stimulates test production by leydig cells, but serotoli cells are only stimlulated by FSH which codes in a male for sperm production... so, although you have atrophied, individuals will vary between the LH/FSH ratio... but it is generally safe to say that if FSH has been shut down (thus shrinking the nuts) then LH is probably shut down too. HCG is basicly exogenous LH and will directly stimulate the testicles to produce testosterone. Clomid works by binding to estrogen receptors causing a release of LHRH. The HCG/Clomid combination is a two fold system that uses two interdependent processes to restart the axis.

You asked for my opinion on whether it was necessary for you to take these... I wouldn't bother on 50mgED of Oxandralone, but above 75mgED I definately would. Thats me. Do more research on it before you make the decisions on what is right for YOU. I'm sure other bros around here have equally valid comments.

I'm an "alter" for Stew Meat.... as apparantly that handle was banned after I resigned as moderator.




-Stew

 

[raider187]

Thanks Stew and Bruce... I think I'm good with my PCT then... I always enjoy hearing other opinions, good or bad. I'm having great results so far with my cycle / diet and other supps.

 

[rambleon]

U have obv done ur homework so i don't have a beef with the anavar only cycle. I'm not very into sups so i'll just say that stews advice sounds solid to me. Especyally about the creatine. It doesn't do shit for me EXCEPT when im on anavar. Then it boosts the var noticeably.

For now i'll just hijack a bit and say: Welcome back stew/ stew meat. Always a good thing to have vets on the board sharing what they know.

 

[funkyfresh]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Actually, another reason I was asking about taking some low dose nolvadex during the cycle was also due to cholesterol values.

I haven't heard anyone really complain about liver toxicity with Anavar, but I know it can knock a lot of guys hdl/ldl cholesterol out of balance.

I just wondered if some nolvadex was worth adding to help combat this aswell as HTPA supression?

To be honest, I need to do more reading on Nolvadex as a whole as I'm not too familiar with what potential side effects this can carry aswell.

 

[Bruce]

hcg is not necessary with use of anavar

 

[Papa Lion]

var will shut you down... so when people say that you don't need a p-c-t.... why is that??

 

[layinback]

Anavar - oxandrolone - will shut you down... so when people say that you don't need a p-c-t.... why is that??

the studies that were cited earlier in this thread are based on a dosage range of 2 mg to 20 mg. if you use 40 mg and up for 8- 10 wks it can shut you the fuck down....been there, done that.

 

[Bruce]

i never said that it will not shut you down. i am going straight from experience. anavar has never caused my testes to shrink nor has it done so to anyone i know. i only use hcg when the testes shrink. hcg does not bring back natural test levels only clomid and nolva do. hcg simply brings the testes back to size so that they are able to produce natural test again. what is the dispute here i don't seem to understand. he wants to run the most basic cycle which requires barely any other ancillaries or serms.

 

[Papa Lion]

i never said that it will not shut you down. i am going straight from experience. anavar has never caused my testes to shrink nor has it done so to anyone i know. i only use HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - when the testes shrink. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - does not bring back natural test levels only clomid and Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - do. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - simply brings the testes back to size so that they are able to produce natural test again. what is the dispute here i don't seem to understand. he wants to run the most basic cycle which requires barely any other ancillaries or serms.

no bone with you bro!! I just keep hearing that anavar doesn't require p-c-t cause it's so mild... an it's just wrong!! as for h-c-g... it does more than just get your testes back up to size, and even if you haven't shrunk I still rec using it!!!

 

[funkyfresh]

OK guys, regardless as to will it or won't it shut you down.

Do you think some Nolvadex throughout the cycle be worth it....just to help aid the cholesterol and HTPA issues?

Yes, I do intend on a proper PCT.

 

[lilj888]

so if anavar does shut u down all the way and if u dont take any PCT - post cycle therapy - will ur shit go back to normal after awhile?

its just a question dont freak out.

 

[mattdan]

To answer your question -

Clomid is very cheap and very effective for pct and to have on hand if you should suffer libido problems on cycle. a na will most likely not completely shut you down at that dose, but it sure will at least supress.

Stew covered all bases very well and beat me to the punch on the creatine. I am generally against taking creatine on cycles, but on this cycle I think it would be a nice addition.

There is no good argument for running nolva thru this cycle. I would not. There are plenty of natural supplements to help cholesterol. Take those instead. Plant sterols are great for that.

Sooner or later some one-cycle-vet-internet-expert will jump on here and tell you what an idiot you are for doing an oral only cycle. Tell them to piss off. You know what you're doing here for the most part. You've certainly done your homework anyway.

Welcome back Stew. Good to have a good knowledgable vet back on board.

 

[Bruce]

no bone with you bro!! I just keep hearing that anavar doesn't require p-c-t cause it's so mild... an it's just wrong!! as for h-c-g... it does more than just get your testes back up to size, and even if you haven't shrunk I still rec using it!!!

i here you bro. man it doesn't matter what your on guys primo, var, winny they all shut you down. yes is not going to shut you down as fast as something like a gram of test deca or tren but it shuts you down. its such a bitch getting hcg these days but i agree its always good to use it. just for fun, it fills your boys up for some old faithful action. clomid is truly great though for keeping your natty test levels up. no matter what he will have to run pct, there is not dispute.