American patriottism?

[Robert Jan]

WHY?

why must americans always talk like they live in the greatest country in the world or some shit? based on what?

and then say other people have been brainwashed for not agreeing

i dont hate on you guys and i wanna make clear i think what happened on 9-11 was sick, but you could have known....

for real, what other, seriously existing country has their leader go "Bless America" after every damn speech?

what other country has their kids in school say honour to their damn flag?

you people are too damn patriot. you are a great country and i might even move there or at least check it out real well but even the stats are often messed with....

The USA is NOT the richest country in the world. The richest is Norway at the moment, which also has the lowest unemployment rate in the world. the usa is something like fourth behind norway sweden and switzerland... (this is all if measured in income per capita)

I often hear things like "but we could wipe your sorry ass off the map anytime we want" sayd by americans online. sure you could. so could every damn country with a few nukes wipe the usa off the map that doesn`t mean anything anymore these days.

"Yeah it baffles me to actually hear people complain about the United States. Let's just face a FACT. We live in the greatest country in the world. No where else do you have this much freedom to do whatever the fuck you want. Go somewhere else and see how strict they are. The US, in my opinion, is the most easy going country around. If it "sucks" so much here, then why not moving to a different country and see how much better it is over there. " - Pure Extract

the usa is far from the most easy going country in the world.
as a matter of fact, from what i know of, its quite intolerant compared to some other first world countries including and most of all the one i live in which is holland.


im sorry if this post sounds a bit too pissed. but i just cant stand patriottism at all... to me this whole "WE are sooo great" thing sort of automatically means "and the rest of you aint shit" as well.... cant really explain it. patriottism is taking pride in something other than what you are yourself, and a strong feeling of being part of the group with imo is just dangerous cuz it takes away your personal feeling of responsibility...

I`m not ANTI us.... im just anti patriot

 

[Code]

The fact that we are so patriotic should make you realize that there is indeed something great about this(the US) nation.

I like the US. I don't have to justify that to anyone.

I'll gladly lay down my life so that other Americans can enjoy this country and the freedoms herein.

Don't like it, great go to a board hosted in you own country.

Being contrary is fun.

 

[Code]

Oh, I forgot to add:

God Bless America!

 

[Robert Jan]

God bless the world

 

[Code]

No, just America

 

[Robert Jan]

i think Us citizens need to learn to be able to view their nation from above, from outside it. guess what, theres peeps outside of it and not just brainwashed haters.

the us keeps slamming its own chest like some grey back gorilla at everybody.

 

[The Ranger]

I have pretty much traveled the world. During which, I have felt what it must feel like to be a minority. Meaning, when in another country, your color is different, you cannot speak the native tongue, do not understand nor appreciate their customs, can't read anything written.....Meaning we're different....

Once you get back to the USA, you know the history, have no problems in communicating, know the area and customs....

In other words you feel secure.....for example, you feel at home, secure, in your house....go to a strangers house and step inside....that is pretty much how you feel....

Everybody now, click you're heels together and repeat after me....

" There's no place like HOME....There's no place like HOME...There's no place like HOME...!!!

Ranger

 

[Robert Jan]

how can you guys be so proud to be americans- all you did to be that was get your ass born there. what an achievement hey?

 

[Code]

I'm proud to be an American because I live in a great country that I make better on a daily basis.

I vote for my public leaders.
I serve my community.
I've defended my nation.
The money I pay for taxes have helped build my community, state and nation.

What do you have against patriots? What do you have against people who believe strongly in their nation?

 

[smallmovesal]

i'm afraid robert isn't alone in his opinon.

i think the degree of patriotism in the US is dangerous for the reasons i've already stated.

for instance, canadians are incredibly self-deprecating when it comes to their own country. yet, at the same time, we are proud to be from canada. i think the difference is that we don't feel we need to "shove it in people's faces" much like a lot of americans do...

i really see a lot of censorship in the US contrary to elsewhere in the western world.

it is important for americans to become more aware of issues elsewhere in the world that even don't necessarily affect the US itself. it's just important to stay adept or else... trouble happens.

 

[Robert Jan]

Because well.... i dunno. maybe this is a dutch thing. but to me anybody who says "we kick ass" or "i kick ass" is sort of automatically saying the rest aint worth shit....

I dont like the "group feeling" feel. It can take away a feeling of moral and responsibility from the individual....

the things you stated here
"I vote for my public leaders.
I serve my community.
I've defended my nation.
The money I pay for taxes have helped build my community, state and nation. "

are all the same for a whole long list of other nations.

Often i hear people say stuff like the us is clearly the best country to live in. then im like based on what.... there is no best... everything has strong and weak points....

I think humbleness is sort of in the dutch... attitude. you wont hear a writer saying he thinks he writes fantastic books or an athlete saying he should have won here or whatever.

i think thats why i cant like patriots

 

[Code]

Your nation should never be something you're humble about.

 

[Robert Jan]

y?

Dont get me wrong i like my country. but i aint no patriot. i sure as hell wouldn`t die for my country. id just as much like to die for whatever the fuck country as this one

 

[Lao Tzu]

I've never been accused of patriotism before. I feel so confused. Normally my posts on patriotism are like yours. i hope my comments didn't help incite this.


Shit. Alot of the patriots here hate me. Curling & JonnyJuice come to mind. I am a firm supporter of the UN & the ICC.

My point is that, i find the idea of knee jerk blind patriotism nauseating, and i don't want peopel to think i am one. To me, it is like a jew being called a nazi (but alot milder, but you get the idea). the idea bothers me.

This isn't really an attempt to make people like me, i just want to clarify that i am a radical progressive in my domestic & foreign policies. I'd rather the radical right dislike me than the radical left.

 

[CBRF4]

Robert Jan, I agree with you 100%.

I left the US for the first time 7 years ago and regretfully I don't see myself coming back for more than a week or two at a time in the future.

Whats astonishing to me also is that fact that a suprising number of American expats share my opinion. The fact of the matter is, that Americans have been brainwashed. And its only once we get out of the US for a long enough amount of time that we begin to see the 'big picture'.

I am a patriot, I love America and what it stands for. Unfortunatly, what America stands for and what it has become are two very different things.

Lets take the freedom of the press for example. I love that in the US there is no censorship....I hate the fact although there are no censors I have to get my news from outside sources nevertheless if I want to see what is really going on in the world.

America is the home of the free....home come so many people are in jail then? America is so damned rich but how come it has so many poor people living in it? How come education is less important that the price of gas?

Whenever America decided it was the best in every way it stopped competing with the rest of the world and as a result it has fallen to the very end of the pack in many areas.

 

[BackDoc]

how can you guys be so proud to be americans- all you did to be that was get your ass born there. what an achievement hey?

Do you get any sense of pride when you see your veterans honored? If you do not have any living veterans in your country then you cannot understand what it is like to feel a sense of pride and honor that your people fought and died for the democracies they believed in. Whether you like it or not, if you had to go to another country, then what would you do?? You would find others from your country of origin and band together so that you might feel like less of a stranger. Nothing wrong with this. In this country, we have communities that are diverse and communities not diverse. We have our problems with race relations etc, but the bottom line is that we are 1 country and while we may not always get along we are citizens of the same country and we band together. We may have our problems but they are our problems and no one elses. We stick together in the end. Not all countries are like that and I don't expect them to understand in the least.

If you have ever played a team sport then you will know that prided enthusiasm among the individual players is one of the things that makes a team great, or at least the best they can be. Apathy is a sorry team mentality and will get you nothing. It also underscores individual mediocrity. Be apathetic, revel in mediocrity, keep your voice down and live a life of inaction in your own country but do not expect others to adopt your defeatest attitude.

"Stand for something or you fall for anything, and then you'll be good for nothing!"

Damn right we're proud. You would be too. I don't expect you to understand that either.

 

[Robert Jan]

all the time us patriots seem to get their motivation out of like a few things

freedom of speech
freedom of press
freedom freedom freedom

well, thats important and all, but sometimes it sounds like they dont realise that theres other free countries out there.

Holland for one is definetely more free in its laws and attitude than the us.... it seems to me that, compared to the us, here you can not only say whatever you want according to the law, but you can actually do it as well as your not expected to think anything....

Think Politics.... In Holland, i could take you to the Hague, to the Binnenhof, at something like 8:30. and youd see the Prime Minister come in, driving his own car, parking it and walking to his office. no security, no whatever. press, usually. but its all just more.... personal. less bureaucratic if thats the right word.

However this pattern was quite damaged recently as a controversial upcoming politician got shot.... RIP there...

But I think this pattern still stands. and for where it does not, it will again because we want it to.

 

[Robert Jan]

"Do you get any sense of pride when you see your veterans honored?

**we dont do a lot of that here. i think once a year but theres only a few veterans left. id not feel pride. perhaps admirance for what they have been through

If you do not have any living veterans in your country then you cannot understand what it is like to feel a sense of pride and honor that your people fought and died for the democracies they believed in.

**i would fight and die for the freedom of me and the ones I love. not for my country, or my government, or any democracy

Whether you like it or not, if you had to go to another country, then what would you do??

**Had to go? for what reason? if theres a good, fair reason id just go

You would find others from your country of origin and band together so that you might feel like less of a stranger.

**actually i would try to integrate asap as much as possible. clotting together like that will get you nowhere and set you up for xenophobia

Nothing wrong with this. In this country, we have communities that are diverse and communities not diverse. We have our problems with race relations etc, but the bottom line is that we are 1 country and while we may not always get along we are citizens of the same country and we band together.

**why not view this on a global level

We may have our problems but they are our problems and no one elses. We stick together in the end. Not all countries are like that and I don't expect them to understand in the least.

**at least you didn`t expect me to

If you have ever played a team sport then you will know that prided enthusiasm among the individual players is one of the things that makes a team great, or at least the best they can be.

**i play basketball and when i played a good match im proud of my performance, and id feel good about the rest of the guys as well. but there is no "the team" theres a few different guys

Apathy is a sorry team mentality and will get you nothing. It also underscores individual mediocrity. Be apathetic, revel in mediocrity, keep your voice down and live a life of inaction in your own country but do not expect others to adopt your defeatest attitude.

**I`m sorry i tried but english is my third language and that was just gibberish to me mainly

"Stand for something or you fall for anything, and then you'll be good for nothing!"

**when i fall i will fall not for some country or some state or whatever. personal pride perhaps... rather just keep standing

Damn right we're proud. You would be too. I don't expect you to understand that either"

**I am proud. proud of what I am. not what the ones who lived before me did or what section of the map im located in

 

[CRNT93]

I agree with Robert a lot.Blind patriotism is dangerous.

 

[3Vandoo]

The problem is that there alway some United Statian jerks doing some idiocy all around the world and this degrade the US image all over the place, Ive met my share of US jerks and assholes and sometime I like to bitch about the US, but you have to be reminded that there alot of good folks all over the US and they should not be judge because of the actions of a too proud cocky """american"""""


EX: In 1997, I am in a resort 1hour of Cancun. Our Hotel was situated next to lagoon,
when I arrived to the Hotel the staffs adviced us not to go out of the lagoon because the water were infested witch Sharks. 5days after a group from the US arrived in our resort, they received the same briefing as us. But 5min after what we see, one of the American swimming right into the sharks. So one of the staff was yelling like hell " Come back Senor come back"
and he asked us our help to scream at the guy, so I yelled " COME BACK SHARK

The guy stop look at us and yelled back " THEY WONT DARE TOUCH ME IM AN AMERICAN CITIZEN" , I swear to God!!!!! He came back right after. That is a nice action that made some great people and a great nation look bad and unfortunately there too much but we should look above that.


322

 

[spongebob]

blah blah blah, blah blah , be blah ba blah <fart noise> blah fucking blah who gives a shit blah.

this country has some great qualities and thats what im proud of. maybe your country does too but i live here and im proud of some of the things that are here. i served my country and have been to several other countries and i like mine better, okey dokie.

god bless america.

 

[danielson]

The guy stop look at us and yelled back " THEY WONT DARE TOUCH ME IM AN AMERICAN CITIZEN" , I swear to God!!!!! He came back right after. That is a nice action that made some great people and a great nation look bad and unfortunately there too much but we should look above that.


322

 

[Mdguy]

I've traveled abroad numerous times and it's disgraceful to see how 'some' Americans act as if they are the center of the universe...like.. How dare you don't speak English or don't have a McDonalds in this town?
You have to face the facts that most people live in the herd mentality and do eveything their leaders tell them to do or succumb to peer pressure by doing what everyone else is doing...only 1% of the populous actually cared and fought for our Independence during the Revolutionary War-the rest didn't really care either way..times change but people usually don't.
Usually the real patriots don't have to advertise it.....

Memorial Day as well as most National Holidays are a farce....you don't see people taking a second or two to pay homage to our fallen veterans while they are cavorting on the beach, do you?

 

[BackDoc]

Originally posted by Robert Jan
we dont do a lot of that here. i think once a year but theres only a few veterans left. id not feel pride. perhaps admirance for what they have been through

Well at least you can admire qualities that you cannot have. You stated...

**i would fight and die for the freedom of me and the ones I love. not for my country, or my government, or any democracy

...yet you admire those who do? Why admire people who went against your personal principles? If you call it their choice, then why not call it my choice to be patriotic?

Nothing wrong with this. In this country, we have communities that are diverse and communities not diverse. We have our problems with race relations etc, but the bottom line is that we are 1 country and while we may not always get along we are citizens of the same country and we band together.

**why not view this on a global level

So you're saying that only if we have global patriotism you'll join in?

**i play basketball and when i played a good match im proud of my performance, and id feel good about the rest of the guys as well. but there is no "the team" theres a few different guys

Semantics you are arguing. Did you join the other team when the game was over to celebrate or lift their spirits? I'm not talking about shaking hands in a required fashion, either. Did you root for all 3 pointers to be made by the other team solely on the basis of it being a difficult thing done by an individual? This would be more of a global view like you put it...

**I`m sorry i tried but english is my third language and that was just gibberish to me mainly

YP not an MP...your problem.

**when i fall i will fall not for some country or some state or whatever. personal pride perhaps... rather just keep standing

You will also fall if a stronger country comes to take yours over. Would you have died with pride?

**I am proud. proud of what I am. not what the ones who lived before me did or what section of the map im located in

Nothing to do with the discussion. A person can be proud of who they are AND be a patriot. A person can be proud of their family's name. Without honor what do you have? Without loyalty what does your family have? Without sacrifice what does your country have?

 

[aurelius]

i served my country and have been to several other countries and i like mine better,

That´s what Spanish people say.

 

[aurelius]

Almost forgot. theres tons of censorship in the US. Whoever wrote that there isn´t hasnt´been anywhere.

 

[str8manwithadickinhisass]

Personally I'm sick of living in the US. Our personal freedom is declining, the two politcal parties that control everything have basically run the Constitution through a paper shredder. The only thing I like about this country is that the people that I love are here. However, I would not be willing to die for this evolving communist nation.

 

[b fold the truth]

Well...when American's get on a boat and head the other direction...I'll start to wonder about if we are the greatest country in the world. Maybe we aren't...but we sure do try. Started from scratch, fought for what we believed in, and continue to do the same today.

B True

 

[magdelana]

I see a lot of good points commented here. I agree with a lot of the points even though they are commented by people who are disagreeing with each other.

Robert is correct in saying that we have in many ways MORE freedom then amerika. Amerikans must go and live in norway, sweden, finland, holland, denmark, etc. for a long amount of time. Live and work there and then you will see that there are more restrictions on your freedom hier in amerika.

The rest of the planet see amerika VERY different then those who live here. Amerika is seen to try to control so much of the lands of the world. WHY IS IT A MYSTERY TO PEOPLE HERE WHY SO MANY IN THE WORLD DO NOT LIKE THIS COUNTRY??

In praise of amerika i say that it is much easier to become rich. In Holland our taxs are so high it is almost impossibile to become truly rich. The only truly rich nederlanders are the ones with the money before the 1960s when the social system we have now was made. Everyone likes to have nice things and i think it is easier to do that here then anywhere in the world.

Patriotism is like so many other things in life great in moderate amounts but very harmful possbily in high amounts. At the least there is a idea that 'we' are beter then 'them'. Enthusiam for your land is very important, it makes you feel good about where you live and work to make it a better place. Gentlemen like Code are the sort of patriots that can benefit there land without seeing the rest of the world as inferior. But many who say they are patriots are not like this. A great many terrible things have been done in the name of "patriotism".

 

[aurelius]

Well...when American's get on a boat and head the other direction...I'll start to wonder about if we are the greatest country in the world. Maybe we aren't...but we sure do try. Started from scratch, fought for what we believed in, and continue to do the same today.

B True

That pretty much sums up what AMericans know about history.

 

[gymnpoppa]

I've lived in Spain, and spent a number of years in Europe traveling, and as far as what some guys are saying about censorship in America...it's true. Americans are uninformed about what's going on in the rest of the world. The media is determined to offer only ONE perspective. Where that comes from I don't know......but it sucks. Information should be unbiased, (whereever you live), truthful, and unrestricted. Unless it's dealing with war.

we have a lot of "freedoms" as mentioned, but they are attaching more and more strings to them. All in the name of blind patriotism....lately.

Corruption is running rampant in this country. Who can you truly trust with your investments these days? The Enron scandal has served to open up the eyes of American public. Before that happened, you couldn't have convinced ANY percentage of the population that corporations cook books, fudge numbers.

Even now, the people's who lives have been ruined by the practices of accounting firms, and corporations...are unheard from. No sense of urgency to rectify their situations.

No urgency to punish those who made off with millions....those who made millions of California....again at the expense of taxpayers.......

Our death penalty practices are definitely flawed, but again, no sense of urgency to fix that......despite efforts of a few states now.....none of the leaders in this arena are even considering whether mistakes have been made.


I seriously believe that our country should spend the next decade improving the life and welfare of all people here. Trash the political system, feds system.......bring the military, teachers, public servants wages in line with their importance to improvement of the society. Stop supporting crooked-corrupt governments completely. Donate that money to international humanitarian needs.

Set a decent example, not a unilateralist movement, (until shit happens, then try to drum up support when you should have been developing relationships all along.

 

[Y_lifter]

I've seen good points raised here and Some I disagree with as well.
Nothing make me more ashamed than seeing some US kid asked a basic history lesson and go DUH !
Sure, we have some dumb asses in the US, as does the rest of the world.

If anyone wants to truly believe the United States of America is not a great Nation in General as we Americans say it is, imagine this.

Lets say the US were to develop a Fuel Source to replace fossil fuels(the only resource we lack in long term self sufficiency).

Then we lock down the borders, call in all our Trillions of dollars in loans, stop bailing out dozens of countries with billions of US Aid each year and stop giving a crap about anyone but ourselves.

How long would all of you Self Centered, Mind my own Business, don't get involved, Non patriotic Countries last then?

You would be over-run in Months by those same Countries that you complain about the US kicking around.

Take a lesson from WWI and WWII.
You didn't think America was all talk and too patriotic back then.
We have plenty of history behind us to be Damn Proud of what we have accomplished, what we have, and what we need to do better.

The main difference I have seen in this thread was the comment of Not being willing to Die for your Country if it was attacked or threatened.

 

[JohnyJuice]

Shit. Alot of the patriots here hate me. Curling & JonnyJuice come to mind. I am a firm supporter of the UN & the ICC.

My point is that, i find the idea of knee jerk blind patriotism nauseating, and i don't want peopel to think i am one.

Shit man, i dont dislike you. I am just extremely patriotic. And no, i am not one of these new patriots that popped up after sept 11th. I dont think everything this country does is right, or that we give everyone (our own citizens and other countries) a fair deal all the time. I am not stupid. I dont have that "fuck you, we are the best and thats that" attitude. But i beleive in things. let me tell you a little story, and you will understand.

My grandfather fought in ww2. He enlisted in the marines and fought in the pacific. He was bayonetted(sp?) in the lung, and recieved an honorable discharge. He re-enlisted, and was later shot in the face, which blew off his nose and part of his cheek. He again recieved an honorable discharge. The man then re- enlisted again, and spent another 2 years in service until the war ended.

Now if my grandfather would make such sacrifices for his family and his country, how can i dishonor him by turning my back on the country he fought his hardest to protect?

 

[b fold the truth]

Shit man, i dont dislike you. I am just extremely patriotic. And no, i am not one of these new patriots that popped up after sept 11th. I dont think everything this country does is right, or that we give everyone (our own citizens and other countries) a fair deal all the time. I am not stupid. I dont have that "fuck you, we are the best and thats that" attitude. But i beleive in things. let me tell you a little story, and you will understand.

My grandfather fought in ww2. He enlisted in the marines and fought in the pacific. He was bayonetted(sp?) in the lung, and recieved an honorable discharge. He re-enlisted, and was later shot in the face, which blew off his nose and part of his cheek. He again recieved an honorable discharge. The man then re- enlisted again, and spent another 2 years in service until the war ended.

Now if my grandfather would make such sacrifices for his family and his country, how can i dishonor him by turning my back on the country he fought his hardest to protect?

Summed it up nicely...

B True

 

[Code]

**From the dance floor**

Woo-Woo!!

 

[Steroid_Virgin]

People who shit on the US do so just to be different... if any of them got into trouble over seas, the first thing they'd do is call the US embassay and ask for help and tell the country they are in that they are US citizen and must be treated differently... how fucking two faced.. yeah they can shit on the flag, but then they wrap themselves in it's protection & glory!

 

[JohnyJuice]

Bump.

 

[b fold the truth]

I'd post my opinions again...but I'd continue to show my lack of knawladge for Amerakan Histery.

B True

 

[Lao Tzu]

1. People who shit on the US do so just to be different...


2. if any of them got into trouble over seas, the first thing they'd do is call the US embassay and ask for help and tell the country they are in that they are US citizen and must be treated differently... how fucking two faced.. yeah they can shit on the flag, but then they wrap themselves in it's protection & glory!

1. Not really. Your statement makes it look like there is nothing about america to dislike, so we just make stuff up sometimes. Everyone has something(s) they dislike about america, Rush Limbaugh, James Carville, Ralph Nader, etc.

I support ideals. Scientific advancement, basic human rights, international cooperation, individual liberty, basic health care, etc. If a government or organization supports these things i will support that government or organization, if they oppose those things i will oppose that government or organization. It is my knowledge that america sometimes opposes these things. When China or the UN opposes them i oppose those organizations too. When america actively opposes efforts to end torture (with the geneva meeting in the UN a few weeks ago), then i find that bad. If the netherlands, China or the UN did the same thing i would feel the same way, i really have no loyalty to organizations, land or governments.

2. I don't see how any of us 'liberals' would wrap ourselves in the flag, i am proud to come from a country that supports its citizens and will make efforts to help them if they are unlawfully detained overseas, but so what. I'm sure alot of 1st, and several 3rd world countries would do the same thing if someone was detained overseas. that isn't the alpha & omega of ethical conduct, and doesn't make an organization or government above reproach.

 

[epimetheus]

Yay America!

 

[Hollywood131]

Patriotism appears to be at an all time high since 9/11. However, I am in agreement with some of the others that patriotism is a dangerous thing. At times even deadly.

Do I feel a sense of pride in the country in which I live? No. I feel fortunate that I live where I do. I live where I do not by any accomplishment, but merely by the fact that I was born where I was. I live in a country(Canada) that has its problems, but fortunately does not suffer many of the harsher problems of other parts of the world. But that does not make me any better than anyone else.

People often are of the belief that patriotism brings people together and unites them. But does it? The fact that people share the common bond of citizenship does not bring peace and unity to society. Everyday people of the same country commit violent acts against each other. Murder, rape, robbery, etc. So where's the unity?

In terms of the international seen, patriotism has had a terrible impact. Patriotism creates divisions and contempt between people of different nations. Just look at the cold war. Americans held hate and contempt for Russians and vise versa. And the catalyst for such animosity was patriotism on both sides. Patriotism is just one more thing that creates divisions among mankind. The tendancy is to first identify differences than similarities. Society, by default, first looks at differences such as citizenship or race, etc. rather than identifying the one common bond that we all share, ...we are all human beings, which is something we should repect most of all.

Peace and unity will not be obtained through any flag or symbol, but through common decency and respect for human life.

 

[Hollywood131]

Patriotism appears to be at an all time high since 9/11. However, I am in agreement with some of the others that patriotism is a dangerous thing. At times even deadly.

Do I feel a sense of pride in the country in which I live? No. I feel fortunate that I live where I do. I live where I do not by any accomplishment, but merely by the fact that I was born where I was. I live in a country that has its problems, but fortunately does not suffer many of the harsher problems of other parts of the world. But that does not make me any better than anyone else.

People often are of the belief that patriotism brings people together and unites them. But does it? The fact that people share the common bond of citizenship does not bring peace and unity to society. Everyday people of the same country commit violent acts against each other. Murder, rape, robbery, etc. So where's the unity?

In terms of the international seen, patriotism has had a terrible impact. Patriotism creates divisions and contempt between people of different nations. Just look at the cold war. Americans held hate and contempt for Russians and vise versa. And the catalyst for such animosity was patriotism on both sides. Patriotism is just one more thing that creates divisions among mankind. The tendancy is to first identify differences than similarities. Society, by default, first looks at differences such as citizenship or race, etc. rather than identifying the one common bond that we all share, ...we are all human beings, which is something we should repect most of all.

Peace and unity will not be obtained through any flag or symbol, but through common decency and respect for human life.

 

[musclebrains]

Interesting thread. It's good to see some Elite members from other countries reflecting their impressions of America.

The idea that America doesn't have censorship is as persistent a myth as the one that says the media is dominated by liberals. It is true that we don't have state censorship in the way the old Soviet Union did. However, the increasing absorbtion of formerly independent media by huge corpoporations that, in the interest of profits, conflate news and entertainment has resulted in a very superficial and one-sided representation of what is happening in the world.

I happened to be in Spain most of last Sept. and Oct. and it was amazing to watch the hysterical reporting of CNN whose moronic reporters didn't even seem to attempt to ask the probing questions that were being asked in the European media. American media yielded to the White HOuse by refusing to print an interview with the head of the Taliban -- though it was widely printed in Europe and was a remarkable portrait of the difference between our values and those of the Taliban. ONly now, a year later, are a few media voices in America asking with any depth what 9/11 may say about our position in the world community.

Another example of the kind of censorship operating here occurred when Gore Vidal filed an assigned essay on 9/11 with Vanity Fair. The magazine refused to publish the essay because its editors found it "too controversial." So Vidal published it in Italy in a book with other essays he'd recently written about America (including an amazing one for VF on Timothy McVeigh). It became a best seller in Europe almost overnight...and only then, when the essay's economic potential was glimpsed, did it get published here. I recommend the book, by the way. The book, very short, was published here under the title "Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace."