Am I crazy/dangerous?

[Robert Jan]

I sort of realise lately that I think I'm very capable of murder.

I'm not passionately hateful, im not an outcast or ideological extremist, but I just dont always really feel the value of human life that much. I'm an atheist and most atheists will tell you they believe and feel a sort of internal moral judgement of right and wrong, some kind of humanist feeling.

I'm not always sure I have that. I think if somebody was a dumb bastard, and was giving me a hard time, I could probably just kill him if I knew I could get away with it. I dont think it would haunt me very much.

I'm not at all infuriated as I write this, I'm calm and just wonder if anyone feels the same way? I'm not like this all the time, sometimes I can get really pissed when people hurt each other, but sometimes I just doubt the value of people.

 

[powerslave]

It could be demon possesion. According to curling anyway.

 

[from zero]

I sort of realise lately that I think I'm very capable of murder.

I'm not passionately hateful, im not an outcast or ideological extremist, but I just dont always really feel the value of human life that much. I'm an atheist and most atheists will tell you they believe and feel a sort of internal moral judgement of right and wrong, some kind of humanist feeling.

I'm not always sure I have that. I think if somebody was a dumb bastard, and was giving me a hard time, I could probably just kill him if I knew I could get away with it. I dont think it would haunt me very much.

I'm not at all infuriated as I write this, I'm calm and just wonder if anyone feels the same way? I'm not like this all the time, sometimes I can get really pissed when people hurt each other, but sometimes I just doubt the value of people.

Bro if murder had no repercussions, I'd be offing people left and right.

 

[BileStew]

I sort of realise lately that I think I'm very capable of murder.

I'm not passionately hateful, im not an outcast or ideological extremist, but I just dont always really feel the value of human life that much. I'm an atheist and most atheists will tell you they believe and feel a sort of internal moral judgement of right and wrong, some kind of humanist feeling.

I'm not always sure I have that. I think if somebody was a dumb bastard, and was giving me a hard time, I could probably just kill him if I knew I could get away with it. I dont think it would haunt me very much.

I'm not at all infuriated as I write this, I'm calm and just wonder if anyone feels the same way? I'm not like this all the time, sometimes I can get really pissed when people hurt each other, but sometimes I just doubt the value of people.

You need more fiber in the diet.

 

[Robert Jan]

Bro if murder had no repercussions, I'd be offing people left and right.

Thank you so much. It's very reassuring to hear.

 

[Y_lifter]

Do you feel this same way (no value) about your own life ?

 

[Bulldog_10]

Bro if murder had no repercussions, I'd be offing people left and right.

If you put your mind to it, I'm sure you could get away with it. If you get caught murdering someone, you're pretty stupid IMO.

I would never murder anyone, unless it was warranted...like if they killed a family member or friend in cold blood...or something like that. But if I did, I'm sure I would get away with it without a problem.

 

[Robert Jan]

I dont even know what "Value" is. and if it exists, why does "value" matter?

 

[WODIN]

Anyone is capable of murder given the right circumstances.

 

[Robert Jan]

Anyone is capable of murder given the right circumstances.

I know. I just feel maybe the treshold is low for me

 

[Y_lifter]

I dont even know what "Value" is. and if it exists, why does "value" matter?

OK. good point hence this thread..
Rephrased.

Do you enjoy your life as in waking up each day looking forward to something, anything ?

Do you think in the furure tense as in:
"I can't wait till this weekend when I will ...

 

[Robert Jan]

I'm intelligent and can figure shit out, but I'm so rational... sometimes I just think like a computer. Reasoning only works when it has a foundation, some kind of inchangable assumption it is based on. In Math every theorem is a conclusion that can be proven by pre-existing theorems.

In morality, decision making, the first, starting point, is that human life is valuable.

I have no first theorem, no fundamental truth, that I can reason from.

 

[Bulldog_10]

OK. good point hence this thread..
Rephrased.

Do you enjoy your life as in waking up each day looking forward to something, anything ?

Do you think in the furure tense as in:
"I can't wait till this weekend when I will ...

I tend to think to the future too much I think...but who doesn't. No one really lives every day as if it were their last. We all wish we could, but it's just not gonna happen. I'm gonna try though...after I graduate from school

 

[Robert Jan]

OK. good point hence this thread..
Rephrased.

Do you enjoy your life as in waking up each day looking forward to something, anything ?

Do you think in the furure tense as in:
"I can't wait till this weekend when I will ...

I look forward to things and I enjoy things. I look forward to persuing my goals and enjoying "love" and "friendship" and art and sex and whatnot. I'm not depressed.

I put the "" because I guess those words hold no real meaning to somebody with no beliefs in even human value

I like stuff, I just dont know if it even matters that I like stuff. I keep living life because I figure it is the best guess. Its probably nonsense but it cant do no harm to live it.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

danger is relative. you sound more dangerous than the average guy, but you dont sound sociopathic. i could conceivably kill many many people if i thought it would benefit me, that i could get away with it, and it was in accord with the rest of my beliefs.

 

[Robert Jan]

I tend to think to the future too much I think...but who doesn't. No one really lives every day as if it were their last. We all wish we could, but it's just not gonna happen. I'm gonna try though...after I graduate from school

I tried that once, living as though every day was my last. It was a fucking crappy day, I'm not doing that again. You have no idea how much you need to take care of... who will come to the ceremony... etc.

 

[Y_lifter]

In morality, decision making, the first, starting point, is that human life is valuable.

I have no first theorem, no fundamental truth, that I can reason from.

Keeping religion out of this...
I feel that the starting point for morality decisions would be that the decision ultimately will likely effect ME in some way..

So, how valuable do I feel MY life is as will be impacted by this decision?
Sure it may effect others LIVES, but really it should start with MY LIFE, as it is mine to do with as I feel.. And How do I feel ?

 

[Robert Jan]

The whole point is I'm stuck in a paradoxal loop of meaninglessness. I dont even really believe my own happiness has value, I just persue it because its my gamble, my guess that that is what to do.

I dont believe in God but I dont believe I know for a fact he is not real either.

However if a God does exist, why does it matter what he thinks about what I do?
Why does it even matter if I got to hell for eternity?

Why does anything matter? and if it does, why does it matter that it does?

you get the idea

 

[Robert Jan]

Keeping religion out of this...
I feel that the starting point for morality decisions would be that the decision ultimately will likely effect ME in some way..

So, how valuable do I feel MY life is as will be impacted by this decision?
Sure it may effect others LIVES, but really it should start with MY LIFE, as it is mine to do with as I feel.. And How do I feel ?

I disagree. Morality is whether or not you are doing the right thing with your life, that you "should" do.

what you are describing isnt morality thats just being self preserving and practical in your ways

 

[IhateOsama]

You sound like you a typical blood thirsty European.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Nothing does matter...too many people think too much about shit. We're put here for one reason, to live our lives however the fuck we want. All the rules and shit...live by them if you want, but I'm not gonna...I make my own rules, and if some of them happen to be the same as society's rules, so be it. If not, I don't give a fuck.

Who gives anyone else the right to tell me what I can and cannot do? I think alot of us have fallen into a rut, and think we must: make money, be nice to others, go to church, go to school, get a good job, etc...And they don't even think about why that is. Most people base everything they do in life on the ability to make money. Money is always gonna be there, money's everywhere...you just gotta know how to take it. So basing anything on money IMO is a waste of time...especially basing something as huge as your whole life on it...plain stupidity.

I'm here to do what I want, this is my life and I can do what I choose. No one else is going to tell me what to do about anything...they can try to persuade me to do whatever they like, but in the end...my life is mine.

Just do what pleases you...there's alot to be said for hedonism.

 

[Y_lifter]

Who says what you should or should not do ?
Who defines morality ?

Some will say society, but which society ?
Other countries and even areas of a country have differing ideas of Morality.

 

[Robert Jan]

Thats no answer bulldog. I mean why should I live a hedonistic life?

basically, why should I care if I'm happy

 

[Bulldog_10]

Who says what you should or should not do ?
Who defines morality ?

Some will say society, but which society ?
Other countries and even areas of a country have differing ideas of Morality.

Exactly, that's why you gotta make your own choices, don't listen to anyone else. If you want to do something, and you feel it's the right thing to do...fucking do it.

 

[Robert Jan]

Who says what you should or should not do ?
Who defines morality ?

Some will say society, but which society ?
Other countries and even areas of a country have differing ideas of Morality.

Of course not society. thats destructive and stupid.
It's supposedly some kind of innate feeling or something we are taught as kids that we just can not question anymore after, because its so deeply embedded in our mind

 

[Robert Jan]

Exactly, that's why you gotta make your own choices, don't listen to anyone else. If you want to do something, and you feel it's the right thing to do...fucking do it.

What if you don't feel what is right or wrong?
Or if you feel it, but are not in the least rationally convinced?

 

[Bulldog_10]

Thats no answer bulldog. I mean why should I live a hedonistic life?

basically, why should I care if I'm happy

What else are you going to do? You can do whatever you want...we have this huge ass world here as our playground...we can do whatever we want.

If doing things that makes you sad is what you like to do...do it. We have free reign over our lives...do with it whatever you want. If you want to sit there all day and ponder the meaning of life, do it...but life will pass you by while you're busy thinking about it.

 

[Y_lifter]

Robert, If you want to understand more about this issue, have you read ?

Nietzsche Was Right
by Philip Yancey

Interesting concept of Amorality or not and why

excerpt:
The question is not why modern secularists oppose traditional morality; it is on what grounds they defend any morality.

A representative of Generation X named Sam told me he had been discovering the strategic advantages of truth. As an experiment, he decided to stop lying. "It helps people picture you and relate to you more reliably," he said. "Truth can be positively beneficial in many ways." I asked what would happen if he found himself in a situation where it would prove more beneficial for him to lie. He said he would have to judge the context, but he was trying to prefer not-lying.

For Sam, the decision to lie or tell the truth involved not morality but a social construct, to be adopted or rejected as a matter of expedience. In essence, the source of moral authority for Sam is himself, and that in a nutshell is the dilemma confronting moral philosophy in the postmodern world.

Something unprecedented in human history is brewing: a rejection of external moral sources altogether. Individuals and societies have always been im-moral to varying degrees. Individuals (never an entire society) have sometimes declared themselves amoral, professing agnosticism about ethical matters. Only recently, however, have serious thinkers entertained the notion of un-morality: that there is no such thing as morality. A trend prefigured by Nietzsche, prophesied by Dostoyevsky, and analyzed presciently by C. S. Lewis in The Abolition of Man is now coming to fruition. The very concept of morality is undergoing a profound change, led in part by the advance guard of a new science called "evolutionary psychology."

 

[Robert Jan]

I read Nietzsche and my Dostoyevski Y lifter.

Bulldog - you are not arguing in any productive direction....
I could answer every one of your posts with
So?
And?
Why Should I care?

and there would never be an end to it. Thats the whole problem I'm overthinking

 

[Bulldog_10]

I read my Nietzsche and my Dostoyevski Y lifter.

Bulldog - you are not arguing in any productive direction....
I could answer every one of your posts with
So?
And?
Why Should I care?

and there would never be an end to it. Thats the whole problem I'm overthinking

I'm not arguing at all...I'm just saying do whatever you want...and apparently you want to do nothing. So what do you want anyone to say? Go ahead...do nothing, feel nothing, just sit there and stare at a wall if that's what you want to do. I could not care less.

 

[Y_lifter]

I care Robert..

 

[Robert Jan]

So why do you want to do things?

You "just" do?

 

[Robert Jan]

I'm not arguing at all...I'm just saying do whatever you want...and apparently you want to do nothing. So what do you want anyone to say? Go ahead...do nothing, feel nothing, just sit there and stare at a wall if that's what you want to do. I could not care less.

I should have sayd reasoning, not arguing. Its my second language I'll use that excuse.

 

[Deterass]

No,just young and full of testosterone.

 

[Robert Jan]

I'm not REALLY that unmotivated and "dead". I'm going to do my thing and like it.
Just playing Devil's Advocate really, demonstrating and confirming the intrinsic, deep pointlessness of reality.

I do really feel I might be capable of murder.

 

[PIGEON-RAT]

getting away with murder is harder than you think

it's MUCH easier to get away with a murder-suicide

 

[Robert Jan]

It depends what your motive is pigeon.

if you motive is that people piss you off, and you want to kill somebody for being a stupid human, its CHILDS PLAY.

go to abandoned dirt road where people cross once every so many hours, wait for someone, kill him, put body down right there and leave. Nobody will ever link it to you.

its when there is a material gain, or revenge element when it gets hard.

 

[Forge]

So why do you want to do things?

You "just" do?

For me, living is all about satisfying personal desires. I work so I can afford to take trips to places I've never been, so I can afford to pay for my house and buy things. I'm married because I enjoy my wife's company and I love / like her. Everything I do in life is at it's root selfish in nature, I admit this.

At the same time, I treat people with respect and good manners. Not because I have to or because God tells me to, but because I WANT to. (I do believe you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar) It's a choice.

It's not a question of why I want these things, just that I do. It's who I am and what I keep living for.


If you don't, then that's just who you are. Doesn't mean you're weird or crazy, just different than I am.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Good post forge. You should just do things because you want to...don't dwell on what "want" means...just do things as you see fit. Everyone sees life their own way, and everyone has their own beliefs, so no one else can tell you how to see things, or what you should do...or why you should do it.

 

[Get Krunkd]

I think that i could kill someone if i had to, and wouldnt think twice about it.

 

[Deterass]

I think that i could kill someone if i had to, and wouldnt think twice about it.

I have two people on my list that i would'nt think twice about.

 

[Get Krunkd]

I have two people on my list that i would'nt think twice about.

im glad im not the only one then lol