Alternate Back Routine

[JKurz1]

Need some suggestions........I switch up my back routine every week, either including deads or refraining (it's hard, I know).........reason is to give my lower back a break from doing both SLDL and Deads in the same week........
So, does anyone have a solid back routine w/o deads? Here's what I got now......

STR8 BAR ROWS 12,10,8,8,6
DBELL ROWS - 2 X10
TBAR ROWS - 12,10,8,8
WIDE GRIP PULLS - 3 X 10-8
SEATED ROWS - 2 X 10,8

maybe some light bis?

 

[from zero]

I'd say that's pretty solid there. Add shrugs if you feel like hittin the traps some more.

Are those pulldowns, or pullups?

 

[cwick0]

everything looks fine. I just switch straight bar rows every week, one week palms facing wide grip, the next week close grip palms away.
Maybe switch wide grip pulls with some close grip.

 

[big4life]

That's close to my back workout for today.

DB rows 4x6
Wide lat pd 3x10
Seated rows 2x8-10
T-Bar rows 3x6-8
BB rows 4x6

 

[wnt2bBeast]

I agree as well looks pretty solid!!!

 

[resonator]

AAP does hypers and reverse hypers instead of deads, says he never performs deads. Looks like you have a good routine though. Are you keeping SLDL rather than regular deads because of lagging Hamstrings?

 

[JKurz1]

AAP does hypers and reverse hypers instead of deads, says he never performs deads. Looks like you have a good routine though. Are you keeping SLDL rather than regular deads because of lagging Hamstrings?

Who is AAP and you can't replace hypers with Deads.........nothing can replace deads.........One week, I do str8 leg deads for hams (on leg day) and skip deads on back day..........the next week, I do deads for back and skip or go light with str8 leg on leg day...........


W2BEAST - You got back today bro? What's on slate?

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Who is AAP and you can't replace hypers with Deads.........nothing can replace deads.........One week, I do str8 leg deads for hams (on leg day) and skip deads on back day..........the next week, I do deads for back and skip or go light with str8 leg on leg day...........


W2BEAST - You got back today bro? What's on slate?

Nope off day for me..so true about hypers..i think hypers are a good assistance for deads but u cant do them instead of deads!! To tell you the truth im thinking of revamping my training..im looking into maybe 5x5 or a more traditional powerlifting phase..

 

[JKurz1]

Nope off day for me..so true about hypers..i think hypers are a good assistance for deads but u cant do them instead of deads!! To tell you the truth im thinking of revamping my training..im looking into maybe 5x5 or a more traditional powerlifting phase..

WHAT?????????!?!!? We used to be on the same schedule....lol..........now, you're ditching me for a freakn powerlifting routine? No more true bodybuilders in this world anymore! LOL...........

 

[wnt2bBeast]

WHAT?????????!?!!? We used to be on the same schedule....lol..........now, you're ditching me for a freakn powerlifting routine? No more true bodybuilders in this world anymore! LOL...........

just an 8-12 week phase see how things go..want to see how much i can change my totals..

 

[resonator]

Who is AAP and you can't replace hypers with Deads.........nothing can replace deads.........

AAP posts mostly on the Chat board now, he has a quite an impressive physique. I agree nothing replaces deads, I was just relaying what works for him.

One week, I do str8 leg deads for hams (on leg day) and skip deads on back day..........the next week, I do deads for back and skip or go light with str8 leg on leg day...........

Ah ok, I was wondering because I would rather kick out SLDL than Regular deads. Damn, maybe I sould switch mine up too, I do both in one week. Were you having any pain or are you just being cautious?

 

[cwick0]

jkurz,
my back workout from yesterday...

deads: 3 sets (135, 225, 275 all for 10 reps, easy day, didnt do them last week)
pullups: 3 sets of 10
wide grip barbell rows (palms facing): 4 sets of 10 (135, 155, 185, 205)
dumbbell rows: 3 sets of 10 with 100
close-grip pull-downs: 3 sets of 10 (100, 130, 160)

biceps: barbell and concentrations

 

[bigdho]

Speaking of back, what do you think about having 2 back days per week one day for thickness and the other for width?

 

[JKurz1]

Speaking of back, what do you think about having 2 back days per week one day for thickness and the other for width?

Entertained that idea many times............what would your splits look like, exercise wise?

 

[cwick0]

I think it is definitely a big enough muscle group that could handle the extra load, but how long could you last doing it, a month, maybe 2?

 

[strongsmartsexy]

My back workout is this:

Deadlifts 3 sets plus warmup or two
Pullups 3x12
One armed DB rows 3x12
Seated low rows STRICT 3x12
Hypers 3x12 with whatever weight I can handle at the time.

 

[bigdho]

Entertained that idea many times............what would your splits look like, exercise wise?

Not to sure how to make up the routine and split but Ive heard some others doing this with good sucsess...........Ill have to think on that one.

 

[JKurz1]

one would be deads, tbar, and rows............the other, mostly chins, pulldowns, etc.......

 

[view]

IMO deadlifst aren't necesary for bbing. I'm with AAP on this one.

Heres a sample of my routine:

Weighted wide grip chins to front 3 x 10-6
Tbar row(freeweight style, not with the pad) 3 x 8-12
Behind the neck pulldowns 3 x 8-10
Seated cable row 3 x 10-8
Weighted hypers 3 x 15ish

I also train rear delts and traps with back, but I won't include them.

 

[bigdho]

JKruz,
ya, that sounds about right. How could you work that into a 5x5 split?

 

[InTraining]

I like all the routines here...a suggestion if your gym has it...nautilus or machine pullovers....very good exercise for nailing the lats...

A question if you do BB rows...how strict do you do these? I felt I was putting WAY too much weight on the bar and got little out of the exercise...

 

[big4life]

I am very strict on rows, both bb and db. I do them slow and under control, making sure to squeeze and hold it a the top. I see people that load the bar up and have ok form at the beginning, but they lose it fast. It might work for them, but I know it doesn't for me.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

JKruz,
ya, that sounds about right. How could you work that into a 5x5 split?

BIGD-
was just looking at an old issue of MD and they had Mike Dragn's routine and he does a light and heavy quad day as well as back width and thickness..ill just list his split maybe u can tweak it for yourself..
mon: heavy quads
Tues: morning back width (chins pulldowns, etc)
afternoon:delts
Wed: Hams or take day off
Thurs: AM light quads
PM: back thickness (deads, rows etc)
Fri: arms
Sat: Am: hams
PM Chest
Just laying it out the way he has it for you..Keep us updated on the 5x5 bro!!

 

[WalkingBeast]

Looks like a solid upper back routine brother!!

 

[Debaser]

A couple points:

-Deadlifts are not magic. Why are they considered such a special back movement when in reality your lower body is the prime mover for the lift?

-Your back routine seems to have a lot of redundancy. Here would be 4 different movements you could employ, each serving a purpose:

Parallel grip chinups
Underhand cable rows
45 degree incline shrugs
Face pulls (with a rope)

 

[cwick0]

I like all the routines here...a suggestion if your gym has it...nautilus or machine pullovers....very good exercise for nailing the lats...

A question if you do BB rows...how strict do you do these? I felt I was putting WAY too much weight on the bar and got little out of the exercise...

wide-grip bb rows w/ palms facing:
good bend in knees, back should be perfectly or close to straight, and feet close together. I dont go real heavy on them cause the form goes to shit to quickly. 135, 155, 185, 205 all for 10. I have done this the past 3 weeks and my back hasnt bothered me at all, not even my workout partners back has bothered him and his lumbar region is messed up.

close-grip bb rows w/ palms away:
feet normal width, bend in knees, straight back.

 

[JKurz1]

IMHO, those that neglect DEADS are the same ones who refrain from heavy squats in the same fashion that, yes, they want to make you puke.........it should be a STAPLE for everyone, unless you've progressed to a point where you are simply satisfied with your physique..........they are a necessity, but I do love the idea of two backs days, one for width and one for thickness.................maybe one with bis and one with shrugs?

 

[tzan]

IMHO, those that neglect DEADS are the same ones who refrain from heavy squats in the same fashion that, yes, they want to make you puke.........it should be a STAPLE for everyone, unless you've progressed to a point where you are simply satisfied with your physique..........they are a necessity, but I do love the idea of two backs days, one for width and one for thickness.................maybe one with bis and one with shrugs?

I don't believe that deads are a must exercise if your trying to build a solid back. Sure they will deffiantly help your lower back and traps, but I agree with debaser and feel that it is more of a lower body exercise then anything else. I personally lift for bb purposes not strength. I tend to go back and forth with deads. I'll hit them hard for a few months, but then step back and drop them from my routine for a few months. If I continue to do deads for too long my lower back really starts acting up.

Back Routine w/deads:
Deads 3x12-8
Wide/Close Pullups 6x12-8
Barbell Rows 3x12-8
Pulldowns 2x15-12(slow and light)

Back Routine w/out deads:
Reverse Hypers 3x12
Wide/Close Pullups 6x12-8
DB Rows 3x12-8
Pulldowns 2x15-12(slow and light)
Hypers 3x12

 

[Debaser]

IMHO, those that neglect DEADS are the same ones who refrain from heavy squats in the same fashion that, yes, they want to make you puke.........it should be a STAPLE for everyone, unless you've progressed to a point where you are simply satisfied with your physique..........they are a necessity, but I do love the idea of two backs days, one for width and one for thickness.................maybe one with bis and one with shrugs?

Tell me this then. For your upper body, how about an exercise where you're slightly bent forward, and you just stay in that position holding a bar. Because that's all you're really doing with deadlifts. All your upper body does is hold the bar. Your hips and lower body are what move it.

You can certainly do squats without doing deads. You can't seem to think of a reason why deads are a staple, other than the fact that many half-assed trainers don't do them. I still do Romanian deadlifts, because they're a different movement that compliments squats nicely.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I know that when I hit dead REALLY heavy that I notice it not only in my lower back but between the shoulderblades.

 

[JKurz1]

Debaser - I'm not going to argue with you (AGAIN...), they are a staple and should be for all.......

 

[WalkingBeast]

Personally, I dont find deads necessary for my upper back development. They are one of my favorite exercises though. Im one of the few it seems, who gets excited the entire week waiting for deadlift day. They are still new to me however since Ive only been doing them consistent for a little over 2 years Im guessing. Ill say this to back up my reasoning: I brought my deadlift up from a 405 1RM to getting it 12 times and hitting 510 for 1RM with NO upper back increase in size. My chest/upper back has been plateaud at 48.5 inches for a while and was at that measurement when I started the deads. Deadlifting did not get me past this. My lower back and waist measurement thickened a good deal though, and possibly traps, but thats about it. I mainly do them cuz I enjoy them so much and like the strength. For developing my upper back Id stick to heavy barbell,dumbell and T-bar rows, and chin-ups,lat pulldowns, low cable rows, hammer strength machine rows, and heavy trap specific work like barbell and dumbell shrugs. My traps seem to have thickened and gotten alot denser since deadlifting though. And since I cant measure those I just go by feel. They feel like steel cables these days, relaxed. I always had traps though. Hope that helps

 

[InTraining]

Tell me this then. For your upper body, how about an exercise where you're slightly bent forward, and you just stay in that position holding a bar. Because that's all you're really doing with deadlifts. All your upper body does is hold the bar. Your hips and lower body are what move it.

You can certainly do squats without doing deads. You can't seem to think of a reason why deads are a staple, other than the fact that many half-assed trainers don't do them. I still do Romanian deadlifts, because they're a different movement that compliments squats nicely.

Maybe this is just me but after not being able to do deads for a good 3 months I definitely noticed thickness in my lower\mid back and traps being lost....yes...other exercises can be used to acheive this but I believe deadlifts do it best of all.....

 

[cwick0]

Not to sure how to make up the routine and split but Ive heard some others doing this with good sucsess...........Ill have to think on that one.

I think i may join you and Jkurz on the two back days per week. My back is one of my lacking areas, only hit it hard for the past couple of years. I think i may pair back with my bicep routine on tuesdays, following international chest day, then hit triceps and back on friday. I will discuss this with my partner today.

What do you and Jkurz think?

 

[InTraining]

wide-grip bb rows w/ palms facing:
good bend in knees, back should be perfectly or close to straight, and feet close together. I dont go real heavy on them cause the form goes to shit to quickly. 135, 155, 185, 205 all for 10. I have done this the past 3 weeks and my back hasnt bothered me at all, not even my workout partners back has bothered him and his lumbar region is messed up.

close-grip bb rows w/ palms away:
feet normal width, bend in knees, straight back.

I did the second way tonight..."Yates Style" I guess...and worked up from 135 to 185 using the strictest form I could....and let me tell you...world of difference....

 

[BOOEY]

Agree with debaser on the exercise point. Doing DBrows, BBrows, and seated rows in the same workout is kind of redundant. Although, I could see doing pulldowns (w. variations in the grip) as an accessory to pullups to get some extra reps in. Back routine as of now looks like:

Widegrip Pullups: As many sets to get to 40 total reps (I increase the amount of total reps every month or so)
BB rows 4 sets, heavy
Deads 2-3 working sets (3-2 warmup)
Chin ups (palms facing) 2-3 sets

Back used to be my most hated b/p to workout, Now its one of my favs.

 

[cwick0]

I did the second way tonight..."Yates Style" I guess...and worked up from 135 to 185 using the strictest form I could....and let me tell you...world of difference....

the form on these can be a bitch, hence i no longer push the issue with any heavy weights. I use to have a buddy who would do these sobs with 365, shocking i know.

You wont have to go heavy either and you should notice your back starting to thicken up.

 

[JKurz1]

Hey, big boy..............I'm thinking about hitting back (width) tonight along with my arms............normally just an arm day, but I'm thinking about knowing the volume down a few sets on those and hitting the lat pull, wide grip seated rows, and chin-up bar for a few.............