ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

[The Shadow]

For those who like low carb diets - you gotta read this.

ALA has powerfull "insulin-like" abilities in that it shuttles more carbs into the muscles to be stored as glycogen.

The bestest part is that with ALA you can eat a LOT of carbs and stay in ketosis.

Yesterday 325 grams of carbs, 1 gram of ALA - ketosis this am.


Think about it people.

 

[WODIN]

I started chewing down ALA Caps first of this week. I like it!

 

[havoc]

Ketosis = Not growing

Go ahead, argue with me.

 

[WODIN]

Ketosis = Not growing

Go ahead, argue with me.

I agree....but I'm dieting some right now so I'm not worried about that.

 

[havoc]

I agree....but I'm dieting some right now so I'm not worried about that.

I hear you my good man, its my opinion that one can diet and still grow though without Ketosis being a factor, unless a show is coming up being the exception. Its all about increasing your polys and monos. peace

 

[saint808]

i'm taking 3000 mgs ALA ED, and my carbs generally are staying under 75 gms a day.... i see no ketosis.

 

[WODIN]

i'm taking 3000 mgs ALA ED, and my carbs generally are staying under 75 gms a day.... i see no ketosis.

You must have the met rate of a sloth. Damn.

Have you done clen / t3?

 

[saint808]

You must have the met rate of a sloth. Damn.

Have you done clen / t3?

clen did nothing for me... i am not super beta receptive. T3 didn't do that much either however i took it not on cycle (obviously).

 

[THeMaCHinE]

i'm taking 3000 mgs ALA ED, and my carbs generally are staying under 75 gms a day.... i see no ketosis.

How are you gauging whether or not you're in ketosis... ketostix? Or just guessing.

Does your piss smell rank?

 

[NY Muscle]

For those who like low carb diets - you gotta read this.

ALA has powerfull "insulin-like" abilities in that it shuttles more carbs into the muscles to be stored as glycogen.

The bestest part is that with ALA you can eat a LOT of carbs and stay in ketosis.

Yesterday 325 grams of carbs, 1 gram of ALA - ketosis this am.


Think about it people.

You cant be in ketosis with 325gms of carbs and only 1000mg of ALA, if you have been in ketosis all along and did one day of carbs at 325gms it may take a day or so to kick you out of ketosis, and also if you did this for a week or so you would without a doubt NOT be in ketosis...you are most likely excreting the remaining ketones out that you have left, after that you will show no more ketones...when I used to carb up, I could still show ketones on the sticks after 12-24 hrs but after that you will show no more ketones..trust me on this, im a veteran on ketogenic diets....so dont fuck your diet up by thinking you can eat that many carbs and be in ketosis.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Another point -- ALA can be used in non-ketogenic diets as well.

 

[The Shadow]

Re: Re: ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

You cant be in ketosis with 325gms of carbs and only 1000mg of ALA, if you have been in ketosis all along and did one day of carbs at 325gms it may take a day or so to kick you out of ketosis, and also if you did this for a week or so you would without a doubt NOT be in ketosis...you are most likely excreting the remaining ketones out that you have left, after that you will show no more ketones...when I used to carb up, I could still show ketones on the sticks after 12-24 hrs but after that you will show no more ketones..trust me on this, im a veteran on ketogenic diets....so dont fuck your diet up by thinking you can eat that many carbs and be in ketosis.

You seem to know everything - so answer me this. Is everyone on the Anabolic Board who is taking in the same number of carbs as me as well as ALA lying as well when they say they are in ketosis as well?

 

[The Shadow]

Ketosis = Not growing

Go ahead, argue with me.

Not the point my friend.

ALA is a powerfull weapon for a moderate to high carb diet.

 

[NY Muscle]

Re: Re: Re: ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

You seem to know everything - so answer me this. Is everyone on the Anabolic Board who is taking in the same number of carbs as me as well as ALA lying as well when they say they are in ketosis as well?

You cannot be in ketosis on 325gms of carbs unless its a situation I outlined above and/or you are doing so many damn hours of cardio and many hours of weight lifting that you are burning all your liver glycogen and blood glucose.... it cant happen.

If they are using a lot of insulin, than it can happen.

But something is missing here or these guys are not telling the whole story. Something isnt sitting right if these people think or are in ketosis.

325gms of carbs for 7 days or an infinate amount of days and a measly 1gm of ALA..and you are telling me people are in ketosis?
There is MUCH more to this equation that we arent being told.

 

[MrMuscle]

question: how can you tell you are in ketosis?

 

[havoc]

Not the point my friend.

ALA is a powerfull weapon for a moderate to high carb diet.

For me its the total and complete point, why train if you are not growing in some sense of the word. peace

 

[NY Muscle]

question: how can you tell you are in ketosis?

The most accurate way is pissing on ketostix, also a blood glucose check MAY be an indicator...but not really, but if your BG is under 50-60 than most likely you are in ketosis if you are on a high fat/low carb diet.

some can "feel" it or know, because of the taste in their mouth, the smell/color of their urine or the "feelling" but that is NOT a true indicator..and i would only rely on the ketostix and turning the stix a dark purple and not a beige or brown which is NOT ketosis.

 

[gymrat]

Though i don't have the sticks, i have the keto breath. I'm conuming about 100-200g of carbs aday.

I'm not trying to get into ketosis. I've done keto before, so i know what it feels like to be in ketosis.

 

[The Shadow]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

You cannot be in ketosis on 325gms of carbs unless its a situation I outlined above and/or you are doing so many damn hours of cardio and many hours of weight lifting that you are burning all your liver glycogen and blood glucose.... it cant happen.

If they are using a lot of insulin, than it can happen.

But something is missing here or these guys are not telling the whole story. Something isnt sitting right if these people think or are in ketosis.

325gms of carbs for 7 days or an infinate amount of days and a measly 1gm of ALA..and you are telling me people are in ketosis?
There is MUCH more to this equation that we arent being told.

I average between 250 and 300 grams of carbs per day.
I have done ZERO cardio in a week.
Have not carb depeted via diet in months.
I have never used Insulin.
One body part per day for 40 minutes.
325 grams of carbs.
1000 mg ALA.
Ketosis.
Period.


Mr. Muscle - get some Keto-stickes from the local drugstoe and pee on them.

 

[The Shadow]

btw - Fonz posted that for ala and ketosis - he reccomends 250-300 mg per 75 grams

Do the math.

Pretty close to his ratio.

 

[NY Muscle]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

I average between 250 and 300 grams of carbs per day.
I have done ZERO cardio in a week.
Have not carb depeted via diet in months.
I have never used Insulin.
One body part per day for 40 minutes.
325 grams of carbs.
1000 mg ALA.
Ketosis.
Period.

I can see maybe 125gms or so of carbs a day and some serious hardcore long glycogen burning workouts and being in ketosis.
But unless you are 300lbs+ and most of that is muscle I dont see how the hell you can burn all your liver glycogen up to be in ketosis...Id like to see you piss on the sticks 2-3 times a day every day for a week and see if this changes...and if you are not using the stix then you really dont know if you are in ketosis or not...I can do a nice long bout of cardio, and FEEL like im in ketosis after Im done but thats not a true indicator. I would like to see DARK purple as thats a real indicator of ketosis...and more than 1 time a day.

This just doesnt make sense...are you using the stix?
What do you weigh? and what bodyfat %?

 

[MrMuscle]

hmm..i need to read up on this ketosis stuff.

 

[JG1]

btw - Fonz posted that for ala and ketosis - he reccomends 250-300 mg per 75 grams

You sure? I could have swore he recommended 400-600mg per 75g carbs. Lemme see if I can find the thread.

 

[The Shadow]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

I can see maybe 125gms or so of carbs a day and some serious hardcore long glycogen burning workouts and being in ketosis.
But unless you are 300lbs+ and most of that is muscle I dont see how the hell you can burn all your liver glycogen up to be in ketosis...Id like to see you piss on the sticks 2-3 times a day every day for a week and see if this changes...and if you are not using the stix then you really dont know if you are in ketosis or not...I can do a nice long bout of cardio, and FEEL like im in ketosis after Im done but thats not a true indicator. I would like to see DARK purple as thats a real indicator of ketosis...and more than 1 time a day.

This just doesnt make sense...are you using the stix?
What do you weigh? and what bodyfat %?

I am using the sticks thru-out the day.

226 at 9% bf.

Moderate levels all day yesterday, as if you have an active job, they will not read really dark until overnight for me anyway.

Thsi morning slightly darker than trace. But I did not intake any ALA with the last 100 grams of carbs before bed.


Seriously - go to the anabolic board and look at that thread.

 

[The Shadow]

You sure? I could have swore he recommended 400-600mg per 75g carbs. Lemme see if I can find the thread.

yep.

ALA+low carbs is a VERY individial thing. Trial and error really.

As a number, use 400-600mg ALA per 75g Carbs.

Thats what I do when doing low-carbs.

Fonz


that is for a LOW carb diet however.....and it drives it down too far for me.

 

[NY Muscle]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

I am using the sticks thru-out the day.

226 at 9% bf.

Moderate levels all day yesterday, as if you have an active job, they will not read really dark until overnight for me anyway.

Thsi morning slightly darker than trace. But I did not intake any ALA with the last 100 grams of carbs before bed.


Seriously - go to the anabolic board and look at that thread.

I understand you and these people may be feeling or actually in ketosis, maybe you are genetic freaks, like a few of my friends, one of my boys cant eat less than 300-400gms of carbs a day or he will literally pass out or get light headed, he is a freak and hard and lean all year round.

 

[NY Muscle]

Cornholio do you have the link to that thread..

oddly thats the only board i never read or post on unless i was directed to the site for some reason.

 

[gymrat]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

I understand you and these people may be feeling or actually in ketosis, maybe you are genetic freaks, like a few of my friends, one of my boys cant eat less than 300-400gms of carbs a day or he will literally pass out or get light headed, he is a freak and hard and lean all year round.

You make a great point. I don't have the sticks, so i can't say for sure that i'm in ketosis. However, i've done keto before, and i knkow what it's like.

But having the sticks would prove to be the real test.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

some can "feel" it or know, because of the taste in their mouth, the smell/color of their urine or the "feelling" but that is NOT a true indicator..and i would only rely on the ketostix and turning the stix a dark purple and not a beige or brown which is NOT ketosis.

My question about whether or not his piss smelled rank was not in an effort to find out if he was in ketosis (that's why I orginally asked if he was using ketostix), but whether in fact he was taking bunk ALA; ALA has a very powerful stench. It is possible that if he is taking ALA at the doses that he mentioned and getting zero effect, that his ALA is not good.

 

[The Shadow]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

I understand you and these people may be feeling or actually in ketosis, maybe you are genetic freaks, like a few of my friends, one of my boys cant eat less than 300-400gms of carbs a day or he will literally pass out or get light headed, he is a freak and hard and lean all year round.

LOL

The sticks tell me I'm in Ketosis.

 

[The Shadow]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ALA, Ketosis and YOU.......

I understand you and these people may be feeling or actually in ketosis, maybe you are genetic freaks, like a few of my friends, one of my boys cant eat less than 300-400gms of carbs a day or he will literally pass out or get light headed, he is a freak and hard and lean all year round.

LOL

The sticks tell me I'm in Ketosis.


http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=122091&highlight=ala

 

[Temple]

I have never done ketogenic dieting but it is my understanding that you need to increase your fat intake in order for it to be effective. I am female, carb cycling with a 100g CHO median but I am also taking 1000mg ALA per day. I am losing bodyfat but not as rapidly as I have in the past and it seemed to slow with the addition of the ALA. Do I need to increase my fat intake or is the problem something else?

 

[The Shadow]

I have never done ketogenic dieting but it is my understanding that you need to increase your fat intake in order for it to be effective. I am female, carb cycling with a 100g CHO median but I am also taking 1000mg ALA per day. I am losing bodyfat but not as rapidly as I have in the past and it seemed to slow with the addition of the ALA. Do I need to increase my fat intake or is the problem something else?

Were you in ketosis before the addition of the ala??

 

[NY Muscle]

I have never done ketogenic dieting but it is my understanding that you need to increase your fat intake in order for it to be effective. I am female, carb cycling with a 100g CHO median but I am also taking 1000mg ALA per day. I am losing bodyfat but not as rapidly as I have in the past and it seemed to slow with the addition of the ALA. Do I need to increase my fat intake or is the problem something else?

You need to keep fat intake relatively high when 1st starting the diet in order to help establish ketosis, then after a few weeks you can back off some fat and replace it with protein.

When I do the diet I do 200gms of fat 300 gms of protein and under 30gms of carbs a day. Then after a week or 2 I cyt the fat too 150gms,sometimes I lower the protein to 250gms also, it depends..but I haven’t done the diet in over a year…I found the best way to diet is to do a traditional moderate carb diet, low fat and high protein for a month or so and when that slows do a full blow ketogenic diet….i am almost at 4 weeks now and down 8 lbs or so and will be starting a ketogenic diet sometime in early may.

I do it this way because I have found that after while your fat loss slows or gets stuck on a ketogenic diet and there is not many options at that point…so doing it my way optimizes fat loss.

 

[Temple]

I don't know as I was not using keto sticks. I began the carb rotation at the same time as I started the ALA - 150g - 200g on training days 50-75 g non training days. I train EOD. The focus was on mass gain prior to the ALA/rotation thing so I am sure that I was not in ketosis. When I said previously, I meant that cutting was going slower than it had when I did it a year ago.

 

[the nature boy]

I've got a question, is there a more accurate way to determine if you're in ketosis besides keto sticks? Can you do one of those blood sugar tests that diabetics use on their fingers?

I'm just wondering if the ALA is doing something to the urine (besides the aweful smell) that's MAYBE giving a flase keto reading. Could this be possible? Because obviously something is happening with the urine when you're on ALA.

 

[NY Muscle]

I've got a question, is there a more accurate way to determine if you're in ketosis besides keto sticks? Can you do one of those blood sugar tests that diabetics use on their fingers?

I'm just wondering if the ALA is doing something to the urine (besides the aweful smell) that's MAYBE giving a flase keto reading. Could this be possible? Because obviously something is happening with the urine when you're on ALA.

We used to do the blood sugar tests back in the day, we realized duchaine’s original assertion that you had to be under a 50 reading to be in ketosis wasn’t true, it was more like 70 and under but I forget if that’s enough to say you are in ketosis….its been a long time since I did the blood glucose tests. But yes something is going on here, something isn’t right.

 

[saint808]

hmmm... interesting point nature boy... hideous fucking smell... makes my veins darker and more vascular too... kinda funky... but my keto strips didn't test right, assuming i was in ketosis.

 

[kronk]

hmmm... interesting point nature boy... hideous fucking smell... makes my veins darker and more vascular too... kinda funky... but my keto strips didn't test right, assuming i was in ketosis.

I hear you on the smell Saint. Since its a sulfur compond it tends to smell like just that when it comes out, nasty!

 

[The Shadow]

I keep a constant headache when on ALA - another sign of ketone-spill.

 

[The Shadow]

I've got a question, is there a more accurate way to determine if you're in ketosis besides keto sticks? Can you do one of those blood sugar tests that diabetics use on their fingers?

I'm just wondering if the ALA is doing something to the urine (besides the aweful smell) that's MAYBE giving a flase keto reading. Could this be possible? Because obviously something is happening with the urine when you're on ALA.

Not possible.

The stickes are very agent specific.

I dropped the ALA to 500 mg - no ketosis - urine still smelled.

 

[Franco C]

How long can you take ALA for? Do you ever have to cycle it and when is the best time to take it when bulking, post workout?

 

[aurelius]

I dropped the ALA to 500 mg - no ketosis - urine still smelled.

Maybe it takes a certain amount of ALA to trigger the stick.(if it can be triggered by ALA)

 

[The Shadow]

How long can you take ALA for? Do you ever have to cycle it and when is the best time to take it when bulking, post workout?

As it has insulin-like properties, taking 500 mg or so with each meal while bulking wiuld be most beneficial.

Low carbs it's even more potenr as a weight loss tool.

 

[The Shadow]

Maybe it takes a certain amount of ALA to trigger the stick.(if it can be triggered by ALA)

Someone dissiolve some ala in water and dip the stick into it.....

 

[the nature boy]

I dropped the ALA to 500 mg - no ketosis - urine still smelled.

500mg for the whole day or 500mg per meal?

 

[The Shadow]

500mg for the whole day or 500mg per meal?

250 times twice during high carb meals

 

[WODIN]

Thanks corn I've had a slight headache for a few days. Time to hit the Tylenol.

 

[BackDoc]

Ketosis = Not growing

Go ahead, argue with me.

No argument here. Low carb tends to mean low gains or even muscle loss.

However, in this case, ketosis is occurring via chemistry in addition to normal carb intake. There is some research suggestion that ALA is desensitizing muscle cell receptors to allow greater muscle cell carb uptake. If this is the case, then the immediate concern with greater carb uptake is higher degree of glycation (muscle protein breakdown). More research suggestion indicates the possibility/probability that glycation is inhibited, so muscle size loss appears to not be a valid concern with ALA supplementation.

So it appears that ALA ketosis is occurring simultaneously with enhanced carbohydrate muscle metabolism.

Of course, this is pretty much all theory and inductive reasoning.

 

[The Shadow]

So it appears that ALA ketosis is occurring simultaneously with enhanced carbohydrate muscle metabolism.

Of course, this is pretty much all theory and inductive reasoning.

The estimate is a 40% increase which is HUGE to dieters.

 

[BackDoc]

Preachin' to the choir, man. Yes it is very significant and I have reviewed much of the existing data. Although it has not been scientifically validated to considerable certainty (by some accounts), it is nonetheless an estimate and I hold that to be accurate considering the fact that many users have reported fantastic results.

 

[esteveze]

If I am not mistaken..water intake has a lot to do when testing Ketones in the urine...

 

[NY Muscle]

If I am not mistaken..water intake has a lot to do when testing Ketones in the urine...

The only thing water effects is how dark the reading on the sticks is...too much water and it will dilute the urine and you may show a negative ketone level when you really are in ketosis..so water has no effect on what corn is talking about.

 

[esteveze]

ok!!!..thanks for the info...sorry for gettiong involved