Aids? Gay? Shredded???

[rodneyabs]

"OK, firstly, not all of those good looking gay guys are on an HIV cocktail because - shock, horror - 99.9% of gay people don't have HIV."

WRONG. 33% of gay men have hiv. source: CDC

 

[alanchiras]

33% of gay men have hiv. source: CDC

As the openly Gay man on here, I would say this is closer to the truth. Thanks!

 

[bodypump2]

wow what a load of crap!

 

[F150Muscle]

Whatever the deal is... more then just gay guys wanting to look good, why are they all jacked and more so, ripped?? Are they all on Growth, Anavar? Someone told me it's the cocktail of medicine they're given. Any insight folks?

It's not the HIV meds. It's physicians giving HIV+ males easier access to steriods. The argument that it prevents wasting is so-so as a reason. Yes, it adds lean body mass and some guys really need that but, for the most part, its easier access over perceived "quality of life." And the guys that are really big and ripped don't know when big gets to be TOO big....

 

[chazk]

A gay dude at my gym is on all kinds of shit his triceps are ripped his legs are veiny and tiny and his gut is just fucking bloated nasty looking but he has abs it really quit disturbing to look at him.He told me its the virus has eating away his body fat and next its will be working on eating up the muscle the drugs have built and in 5 more years he will prb be dead. But with out these drugs he would have been dead 15 years ago. So even as nasty has he looks now .Its just a blessing to even be alive.

 

[cavemuscle]

Many of the HIV drugs are implicated in the loss of sub-Q bodyfat in people with HIV. This is particularly true of Zerit (aka D4T). The disease itself causes metabolic problems that can also contribute to fat loss/redistribution as well. It has been fairly well established that Zerit, in particular, causes programmed cellular self destruction of fat cells, particularly under the skin and in the face and the extremities. Since the fat cells are destroyed, it has yet to be determined if, upon long term removal of the patient from Zerit, if the body will be able to create "new" fat cells to replace what was lost.

The problem in HIV positive people is that the disease and the drugs used to treat it also can, and often do, cause serious lipid elevation and fat metabolism problems. People with HIV have a very difficult time metabolizing fat but on the other hand, also have a very hard time digesting it either so it tends not to absorb into the body from food very well.

So when the sub-Q fat cells are destroyed, the newly released fat needs to be combusted (metabolized) or stored somewhere else in the body. It is this "somewhere else in the body" that is the center of the lipodystrophy issue as it will typically get transferred and packed inside of and around internal organs, beneath the abdominal wall (giving the infamous "crix belly look") or a "buffalo hump" on the back of the neck. The likelihood of lipodystrophy is greatly increased if blood lipid levels are not kept under tight pharmacological control. This is usually accomplished by using cholesterol lowering medications like Lipitor. Trigylcerides, which also become seriously elevated seem to respond best to "cold water fish oil" as trigylcerides do not typically respond to any prescription medications that I am aware of at this time--remember "cod liver oil?"--blech!! But it works and this has been scientifically demonstrated in at least one moderately recent study related to this issue. I have personally also seen enough blood work results that clearly have convinced me that it works extremely well also. At least now, fish oil comes in capsules so you don't have to taste it.

So that is a brief synopsis of the world inside of HIV and fat metabolism--or at least as best as I can distill it at this point in time--there is a tremendous amount of information out there and it is difficult to keep up with all of it all of the time. It is a subject still under much discussion and controversy and none of what I say should be construed to be absolute fact as it is based on current medical literature, and the medical community's best "guess" about what is going on. I have also thrown in my own observations as well that pretty much confirm in my own mind what I have just said. More will no doubt follow.

All of what IS known is related to HIV and its treatment. I am not aware of anything that studies any of these medications for any other purpose and doubt that anything is likely to be done scientifically along those lines in the foreseeable future.

The million dollar question then becomes, what would happen to a person that had NORMAL fat metabolism as they are HIV negative AND are not on other "offending" medications relative to blood lipids becoming elevated and redistributed? Let's face it, the idea of a medication "killing the fat cells under the skin" seems pretty appealing to a lot of guys wanting to get ultra shredded.

Of course, there are some down sides to consider. There still is the facial wasting issue (fat cells are also destroyed in the face resulting in that "sunken, hollow look") and this alone can cost several thousand dollars of cosmetic surgery to even attempt to repair. I have not yet seen one case where it was possible to completely repair the damage as there is considerably more fat in the face than one may realize under normal circumstances. Zerit will, for all practical purposes, remove pretty much all of it along with the sub-Q fat from what I have seen in people that use it for treatment of HIV.

The other down side is that Zerit is Known to cause serious mitochondrial toxicity issues which is a known and listed side effect. It has been observed that up to 70% of the mitochondria in a given cell can be dead due to Zerit. As this is the site of cellular energy production, what does this say about the issues of fatigue and muscle weakness, both of which are also listed side effects--gee that would have been a no brainer! The other issue is that Zerit can cause serious blood lactase elevation issues which also may contribute to fatigue and muscle weakness not to mention recovery issues. These effects do correct themselves upon removal from the drug, however. For a link to the NIH which gives good information on the side effects, etc. for all of the currently FDA approved drugs, check out:

http://www.aidsinfo.nih.gov/

So anyone ever tried this stuff that isn't HIV positive? I would be really curious as to what they observed.

But the REAL question is WHO IS THAT GUY IN HansNZ's PIC? LOL

Firstly, Hiya Norcal, good to see you guys on here.

Second, being a poz bodybuilder, the effects of the most harmful meds can be mitigated. The fat issues seem to be tied to insulin resistance. By watching for and elimination most forms of sugars, most importantly high fructose corn syrup and eliminating the most toxic meds, the fat issues can be reversed. You might end up having to do 30 min of cardio everyday, but it can be done. An AA friend has done it and i'm in the process.

There is a triglyceride lowering med out there, I'm on it. Gemfibrozil. and it's generic so it's just a 10 buck co-pay.

Mass General and Harvard are doing a 3 year study on the use of low dose HGH to reverse the mitochondrial problems. Results are looking good.

More and More diet is being looked at, along with the fact that some of the meds kills the nuts dead, these seem to be the key sources of body change and the docs are getting real good at intercepting these.

Zerit is now considered a second tier drug, and crix is not even recommended anymore because of it's toxicity.

Finally for some of us surgery is an option. in my case my ab issues are more due to the fact that I was dropped, fully geared up, by boat monkeys on a wreck dive in Lake Michican, tearing the tissues joining the two sides of the abs apart. this can now be fixed orthroscopically with minimal recovery. Laser guided lipo is an option for others, again it's far more accurate than old style lipo.

Every month brings new info. Nelson Vergel has a good Yahoo group called POZhealth that can keep you up to date on alot of it.

happy lifting
Brock

 

[babybodybuilder2.5]

Here is my take on your question...Gay men who are HIV+ tend to take better care of their bodies. As for me, I do not take any recreational drugs of any kind. Nor do I smoke, or drink. Its all about how one treats one body.

 

[alanchiras]

A gay dude at my gym is on all kinds of shit his triceps are ripped his legs are veiny and tiny and his gut is just fucking bloated nasty looking but he has abs it really quit disturbing to look at him.He told me its the virus has eating away his body fat and next its will be working on eating up the muscle the drugs have built and in 5 more years he will prb be dead. But with out these drugs he would have been dead 15 years ago. So even as nasty has he looks now .Its just a blessing to even be alive.

O. K. I'm going to take this one, and I'll try to be brief.

For PWA's, body composition, LBM, fat, high lipids, and just plain looks are difficult to paint with just one brush. AIDS waisting is DIFFERENT from lipo. It is true that some people do have an 'AIDS' look to them. There is a porno star named Tony something that has that look. Lipo either eats away or redistrubates body fat whereas AIDS waisting eats away at muscle, NOT FAT. A dear friend of mine, Albert Kraus from Chicago was 300lbs when he died from AIDS waisting.

But, yes, it is great just to be alive. now, if I could only figure out now what to do with the rest of my life now that I have lived 11 1/2 years with 'full blown' AIDS, graduated from college, almost finish my second book, and have now lived at least FIVE more years that anyone expected. BTW, my entire HIV drug regime consists of ONE pill a day. Thanks! Alan Chiras.

 

[delete]

The usual reason is that gay men, like women, are exposed to men's greater emphasis on physical beauty. As such they invest more effort in their looks than straight men who experience less such pressure from women.

Gay men get a double dose because they experience the pressure to be "beautiful" not just from other men, but also from their own male emphasis on visual beauty.

that is true, from my point of view. I'm not hiv+ yet I do two cycles a year. need to get that ripped look to I can continue getting that 25-40 age group of hot men. I have to at least look as good as they do; yeah, its a bummer, but when I score its a home run!

 

[stressman13]

Uh Anyway, anyone know if carrot top is juicing?


Man Law: Doing men in the butt is bad.