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Advice On First Cycle

no1_brawler

New member
Hello. This is my first post here but ive been lurking around and reading the posts and i want to start a cycle. I'm 18yrs old and have been working out for a solid 3 years and yes i do know the risks, ive been reading up on everything so plz dont say im 2 young or anything. I just want some help so i can get an effective cycle with not much estrogen seeing i still want to grow a bit more. Here it is:

Weeks 1-6: 1ml/250mg of Testosterone Ethanate a week
Weeks 1-2: 15mg of Dianabol ED
Weeks 5-8: 25mg of Winstrol EOD

And i'm taking arimidex weeks 1-6 and 2 weeks of clomid therapy afterwards.
 
Just wanted to add that my aim is muscle mass and nothing else because i dont store much fat. I was also wondering what you guys thought i would gain in that cycle i wrote above.
 
I know you don't want to hear this but I would feel guilty if i don't give you good advice: You're too young to touch any juice. At this age there are already lots of hormones raging in your system. Plus you need atleast 5 years of solid training so that you can reach your maximum potential. I would advise you to go to the training and diet forums and soak up as much information as possible. You still at this stage have a lot of natural gaining potential.
 
What you said is good advice but the cycle im going on is pretty basic and i dont believe anything negative will come out of it so could someone give me any tips about my cycle?
 
You're too young.. but you're not going to listen to that, so here's the first cycle you should run.

Weeks 1-10 test enan/cyp 400mg/wk
1 pump AIFM ed, throughout cycle + PCT

PCT clomid/AIFM

If you insist on an oral, dbol @ 25mg/day ed for weeks 1-4.

good luck.
 
no1_brawler said:
What you said is good advice but the cycle im going on is pretty basic and i dont believe anything negative will come out of it so could someone give me any tips about my cycle?

What you believe and what is factual are 2 different things; Any cycle that you run at this age could cause stunted growth.

Do whatever you want it's your own body
 
Mee too... first cycle...
Got my Clen in yesturday... was wondering if I am measuring correctly... havent used it yet... Okay so i have a syringe that measures up to 1/2 a cc... so for the first day, dosage will be 1/5th? of that...
cycle will look like this for 18 days...
20 mcgs 2 days-- 1/5th
40 mcgs 2 days-- 2/5th
60--3/5th
80--4/5th
100--syringe full
80--4/5th
60--3/5th
40--2/5th
20--1/5th
How does that look??? Is it right... Mr X???
 
AuthentiK DZyne said:
Mee too... first cycle...
Got my Clen in yesturday... was wondering if I am measuring correctly... havent used it yet... Okay so i have a syringe that measures up to 1/2 a cc... so for the first day, dosage will be 1/5th? of that...
cycle will look like this for 18 days...
20 mcgs 2 days-- 1/5th
40 mcgs 2 days-- 2/5th
60--3/5th
80--4/5th
100--syringe full
80--4/5th
60--3/5th
40--2/5th
20--1/5th
How does that look??? Is it right... Mr X???

Clen for a first cycle; what a terrible idea.. My advice don't do it: It's not for beginners
 
no1_brawler said:
Hello. This is my first post here but ive been lurking around and reading the posts and i want to start a cycle. I'm 18yrs old and have been working out for a solid 3 years and yes i do know the risks, ive been reading up on everything so plz dont say im 2 young or anything. I just want some help so i can get an effective cycle with not much estrogen seeing i still want to grow a bit more. Here it is:

Weeks 1-6: 1ml/250mg of Testosterone Ethanate a week
Weeks 1-2: 15mg of Dianabol ED
Weeks 5-8: 25mg of Winstrol EOD

And i'm taking arimidex weeks 1-6 and 2 weeks of clomid therapy afterwards.


not a very good cycle. Im not going to tell you that you are too youn because you have already decided and likely already bought the stuff. so here is what you need to do

250mg/week enanthate weeks 1-8
25mg dball/day weeks 1-4
winny at 25mg/day weeks 5-8
Arimidex at 1mg/day weeks 1-8

have some nolvadex on hand in also. use clomid/hcg/arimidex throughout the pct

this is going on the substances im assuming you already have.
 
thanks ddrman. but i thought arimidex inhibited estrogen and if so, why shud i get nolvadex?
may i also add that i do have those drugs now but i dont have arimidex and i found it its prety expensive stuff. Where does every1 here get there arimidex from if u dont mind me asking?
 
no1_brawler said:
thanks ddrman. but i thought arimidex inhibited estrogen and if so, why shud i get nolvadex?
may i also add that i do have those drugs now but i dont have arimidex and i found it its prety expensive stuff. Where does every1 here get there arimidex from if u dont mind me asking?


well the only site they will allow you to mention here is ag guys, but its definitely NOT the cheapest

there are sites selling it for 30 bucks/bottle
 
no1_brawler said:
thanks ddrman. but i thought arimidex inhibited estrogen and if so, why shud i get nolvadex?
may i also add that i do have those drugs now but i dont have arimidex and i found it its prety expensive stuff. Where does every1 here get there arimidex from if u dont mind me asking?


nolvadex targets the breast tissue specifically and is good to have on hand in case gyno still might set in.......its something you should always have close by just in case
 
it is a horrible idea, you are going to shut your growth plates. i grew 3 more inches at 22. you should not juice till your 23-25 minimum bro.
 
bruce410 said:
it is a horrible idea, you are going to shut your growth plates. i grew 3 more inches at 22. you should not juice till your 23-25 minimum bro.

actually as long as you run an AI, the growth plates WONT close. Estrogenic agonism is what causes premature closure.

(though agree that otherwise that would be true)

as a note- they are using AI's and ER blockers to extend height

: Pediatr Endocrinol Rev. 2006 Apr;3 Suppl 2:301-5. Links
Mechanisms for delaying epiphyseal fusion and improving adult height in pubertal patients with hypopituitarism.Eugster EA.
Section of Pediatric Endocrinology, Department of Pediatrics, James Whitcomb Riley Hospital for Children, Indiana University School of Medicine, Indianapolis, Indiana.

The preservation of linear growth potential is an important goal for many patients presenting to the pediatric endocrine clinic. This is particularly true for pubertal adolescents with growth hormone deficiency who are diagnosed late and for short children with hypopituitarism and central precocious puberty, a combination that confers a poor prognosis for adult stature. In this review, currently available and promising new strategies for delaying epiphyseal fusion and increasing adult height in pubertal patients are discussed. While GnRH analogues are the standard of care for treating central precocious puberty, concerns exist regarding adverse metabolic effects of these agents when used in adolescence. Alternate approaches that diminish epiphyseal estrogen exposure yet allow pubertal development to progress in boys include antiestrogens in the form of aromatase inhibitors and estrogen receptor antagonists. Data from clinical trials using these compounds in a variety of pediatric conditions are summarized, and future directions are identified.


Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 2006 May;64(5):510-3. Links
Treatment with the aromatase inhibitor letrozole during adolescence increases near-final height in boys with constitutional delay of puberty.Hero M, Wickman S, Dunkel L.
Hospital for Children and Adolescents, Helsinki University Central Hospital, Helsinki, Finland.

OBJECTIVE: We investigated whether inhibition of oestrogen biosynthesis with the aromatase inhibitor, letrozole, during adolescence improves near-final height in boys with constitutional delay of puberty. PATIENTS AND METHODS: Seventeen boys with constitutional delay of puberty were randomized to receive testosterone (T) enanthate (1 mg/kg i.m.) every 4 weeks for 6 months in combination with placebo (Pl, n = 8), or the aromatase inhibitor letrozole (Lz, 2.5 mg/day orally) (n = 9), for 12 months. After treatment, patients were followed up until near-final height. Height discrepancy was calculated as near-final height minus mid-parental target height. MEASUREMENTS: The primary end point was the difference in near-final height between the groups treated either with T + Pl or T + Lz. Secondarily, height discrepancy and gain in height standard deviation score (SDS) were analysed in both groups. RESULTS: Boys treated with T + Lz reached a higher mean near-final height than did boys on T + Pl (175.8 vs. 169.1 cm, respectively, P = 0.04). In T + Lz-treated boys, mean near-final height did not differ from their mid-parental target height (175.8 vs. 177.1 cm, P = 0.38), whereas in T + Pl-treated boys, mean near-final height was lower than mid-parental target height (169.1 vs. 173.9 cm, P = 0.007). T + Lz-treated boys had a greater increment in height SDS over the pretreatment height SDS than T + Pl-treated boys (+1.4 SDS vs.+0.8 SDS, P = 0.03). CONCLUSIONS: Our findings indicate that in adolescent boys an increase in adult height can be attained by use of aromatase inhibitors.


1: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Dec;90(12):6396-402. Epub 2005 Sep 27. Links
Inhibition of estrogen biosynthesis with a potent aromatase inhibitor increases predicted adult height in boys with idiopathic short stature: a randomized controlled trial.Hero M, Norjavaara E, Dunkel L.
Hospital for Children and Adolescents, University of Helsinki, Finland.

CONTEXT: In males as well as in females, estrogen is an essential regulator of bone maturation, growth plate fusion, and cessation of longitudinal growth. Therefore, an increase in predicted adult height (PAH) may be achieved in short boys by blocking estrogen biosynthesis. OBJECTIVE: We tested the hypothesis that a decrease in the rate of bone maturation and an increase in PAH can be achieved in boys with idiopathic short stature (ISS) by the method of blocking estrogen biosynthesis with an aromatase inhibitor. Secondarily, we investigated the effects of aromatase inhibition on bone mineralization. DESIGN: This was a prospective, double-blind, randomized, placebo (Pl)-controlled clinical study. SETTING: The study was performed at a university hospital out-patient clinic. PATIENTS: Thirty-one boys, aged 9.0-14.5 yr, with ISS were studied. INTERVENTION: The boys were treated with the aromatase inhibitor letrozole (Lz; 2.5 mg/d) or Pl for 2 yr. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE: The main outcome measure was the change in PAH after 24 months of treatment. RESULTS: PAH increased by 5.9 cm (P < 0.0001), and height SD score for bone age increased by 0.7 SD score (P < 0.0001) in the Lz-treated boys, whereas no changes occurred in the respective measures in Pl-treated boys. Areal bone mineral density of the lumbar spine and femoral neck, assessed by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry, increased in a similar fashion in both groups during the treatment, whereas bone mineral apparent density increased only in those taking Lz (median increase, 4.3%; P = 0.009). CONCLUSIONS: Treatment with the aromatase inhibitor Lz delays bone maturation and improves PAH in boys with ISS. No adverse effects on bone mineralization were evident after 2 yr of treatment.


Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2006 Jun 9; [Epub ahead of print] Links
Use of aromatase inhibitors to increase final height.Dunkel L.
Kuopio University Hospital, Kuopio, Finland.

During puberty in both sexes, the mechanism involved in epiphyseal fusion is mediated by the action of estrogen through a cascade of events including proliferation, differentiation, and apoptosis of chondrocytes. The enzyme P450 aromatase catalyzes the aromatization of C(19) androgens (androstenedione and testosterone) to C(18) estrogens (estrone and estradiol). Inhibition of estrogen action by aromatase inhibitors (AIs) appears to decelerate the process of growth plate fusion, and thus AIs may be used therapeutically to increase adult height. The clinical experience with AIs in the pediatric setting is limited to testolactone, fadrozole, letrozole, and anastrozole. Testolactone, a nonselective steroidal AI, has been used successfully as an adjunct to antiandrogen and gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogue (GnRHa), therapy for children with familial male-limited precocious puberty (FMPP) and congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH), and with some success in girls with McCune-Albright syndrome. The limitations of testolactone include its relatively low potency and the need for frequent dosing. Results of a randomized placebo-controlled trial in boys with delayed puberty treated with letrozole, a selective nonsteroidal AI, found that boys treated with letrozole+testosterone experienced delayed bone maturation and good growth response and achieved an increase in predicted adult height. In this study, only minor differences in bone density were seen between the placebo and letrozole treatment groups, both of which were receiving concomitant testosterone therapy. No adverse effects on testis size or inhibin B concentration were noted. The therapeutic value of AIs in growth promotion now remains to be substantiated in future controlled clinical trials.
 
AhMadKooL said:
What you believe and what is factual are 2 different things; Any cycle that you run at this age could cause stunted growth.

Do whatever you want it's your own body

i know there are studies that "find" anything you want to hear....but the male endocrine system don't peak out until 25, 26 or so......so aas is doing nothing but fuking with the natural progression of that system.....period.

plus, aint there all kinds of dumbass highschoolers and right out of that are committing suicide right in mid-cycle......get your damn head in the right direction before doing any drugs.....at 18, if i had time to eat right and make the sacrifices to do aas, i'd be a millionaire instead.....
 
to be honest I think 250mg of test a week is prob what your body is producing as we speak give or take afew millagrams.

your not gonna see much in the gain aspects .I'm 29 now i'll tell you my exp with test back when i was 18 .I stole a bottle from my brother room mate 10cc bottle later he made me pay for it.150$ I might add but that was back in 1995 and I had no idea what i was doing. But I will tell you this much I went from 150 to 170 in 10 weeks at 200mg a week .I was really bloated and nasty looking acne was insane big purple blue looking zits on my shoulders.

I will also tell you this much i'm 5'8 and everyone else my brother father and close relatives that are males are all over 6ft. Its almost as if it stopped my torso from growing and i look like a fucking short box .thick but neverless a fucking 5'8 200lb box.

I never touched it ever again for 5 years by that time i was 23 and did dbol-test 200mg a week-deca200mg aweek and made solid gains and trained hard
to get to 185-90 i used it to push me past a platu. I did not touch anything else untill I was 29 .A few months ago i felt i was stuck around 195 and bouncing back and fourtha few pounds.
So im running eq 600mg and 125mg or test with 125mg ofdeca.
I'm already up to 202 and its week 4.with 8 more to go.

i think you have not reached a natural peak yet and should train 5 years natural then jump on juice. i wish I had avoided that first cycle but i was young and stupid and garantee had i worked out a few years i would have made that progress on my own.

but never the less if you gonna run it at age 18 chaces are you will keep most of the gains in muscle and carry them with you the rest of your life.
 
no1_brawler said:
thanx for your inpt chazk but i read that an andult produces up to 11mg a dog which totals to 77mg a week max
11mg a day if for a average adult that does not lift weights or doing and excersize . once you expose your body to heavy training your body will no longer be " normal" growth hormone levels will increase IGF leveles will increase and testosterone levels will increase .Studies show that natural bodybuilders after lifting for a few years and with proper diet and protien intake have higher hormone levels then a "average person"

so the 77mg a week theory is fine for a "normal" person give you body a few years of lifting and i will assure you you hormone levels will not be "normal" but will be higher as your body androgen recpetors taken up the androgens during rebuilding your body will output more testosterone to keep up with it.
your also not a full gown adult your a teenager.a full grown adult would be age 23-25 .at age 18 your body is surging with lots of testosterone and its def higher then that of a noraml adult making 11 grams a day becuase noraml adults dont get acne all over them like teenagers do so its safe to say a raging teens test levels with weight training would be around 20mg of test a day or atleast 140mg a week of actual testosterone.

now once your done growing and your body says i dont need to make test you might go down to the normal range of 7mg a day but provided you keep lifting your body might keep a higher output of 10mg a day

you must understand that a injection of testosterone not all of it gets used up as testoterone some converts to estrogen and dht.so if you inject 250mg a week of test some will become estrogen and some dihydrotestoterone.

so that 250mg shot your taking might only end up giving you 150mg of testosterone .not much more then your already making now as a teenager with raginghormones.
the dbol will help kick it off becuase its more androgenic and anabolic then just testosterone.

i think your gonna have to up the test to 400mg a week to see results that you want.

besure to include squats,deadlift into your work outs. When i was your age i just did bench press a few times a week with some bicep curls and thought it was working out but I was young and uneducated and only had a limited knowledge.

squats and deadlifts will give you the extra growth you need if your not already doing them not and i dont mean leg presses but actual squats.
 
Last edited:
nned more then 250 test i think a week....but you are to young...but like you i was an idiot at 18 and di my first cycle...did 2 that whole year...im the shortest in my family...so i dunno wat to tell u...id wait another 2 years man
 
i don't give a shit about studies with ai's, besides its not a doctor giving ai's to him its him on his own, he fucks up his growth is gone, is it worth it. also your natural test willb be shut down as it is still developing. i know someone who has horrible ed because he cycled at 18 and wasn't done growing and progressing.
 
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