advice on a cycle?

[rossman86]

Hi I am new to this site but have been looking for some advice on a cycle im on right now. Ive gotten advice from everywhere but I think the more the better so here goes.

Im 23 and have been lifting for about 4 years. I weigh in right now at 190 and standing about 5'10

Right now I am currently running and injectible hgh along with testosterone enanthate and equioise. I have been running the hgh for about a month and a week now, but just started the test and eq. The first month of the cycle though I went with a prohormone called spawn. I've done spawn before and had no problems with decent results. Now where im starting to need the advice is I did not run a post cycle with the spawn assuming that taking the test would just continue the cycle on. Well now i am running into problems because I have only taken 2 shots in the last week of the test and the eq but I have noticed some symtoms of gyno. I have only been off the pro hormone for 6 days tho so could this be a coincidence? I have talked to a friend that has gyno and actually had the surgery but he says im crazy and cannot feel any lumps. I have been rubbing and pinching my chest like crazy so its been irritated and i have noitced some enlargment in my pecs...I am also on about a 3500 to 4000 calorie a day diet though which could be cause also. Its only in one nipped and my nipple is not hard or anything but I think i can feel a little ball behind the nipple but only about half the time i check. Basically what I am wondering is if spawn would be really strong enough and if the 2 shots could have anything to do with the begining stages of gyno? Im being told im just paranoid and all this other stuff but Im really freaked out about it. Am I even far enough along to tell if theres anything really wrong? If so whats mabey some advice as far as taking an anti estrogen blocker but to my knowledge it can really take away from your gains? I dont know I might just be going nuts because if your pinching and pulling at your nipple all day obviously its going to be sore. I know like novidex and that stuff is an answer but What can it really do? I know once the damage is done its done but I dont think theres really any damage besides just some fat up there which I do store fat in my lower chest. Can novidex mabey keep this at bay...and if so when would be a good time to use it. Will it take away from my gains because im told im being a fool for thinking i have it and im just wasting my money on the novidex but if it wont take away from my gains and can help me not worry I would probably buy if just for the peace of mind.. Well anyways thats my story and any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[joe d]

nolva may or may not work. letro will kill the gyno. you should be running an ai throughout the cycle.

 

[Jhotsauce7]

Running an AI throught a regular cycle will hinder some gains, and only needs to be run if you are proven to be gyno prone

have u noticed Itchy Puffy nips? I am assuming so. It would appear you are experiencing estrogen rebound from stopping that PH/ORAL AAS withouth some sort of PCT/SERM support. My personal recommendation would be to hault your Test/Eq cycle till you can run TOREMIFENE for a 4-6 week protocol. 60 mg ed for 2-4 weeks, 40 mg ed 2 weeks should suffice. You may want to try and find this, and have it over nighted to you, and you may want to get some Letrozole to be on the safe side. If you get full fledged gyno, due to the massive ammounts of estrogen in your system, letro is the only thing that may be able to help ...2.5mg ed, until symptoms are gone, then 2 more weeks for good measures.

Test E is a long ester and will take 4+ weeks to be active and build up levels in your system, so there is nothing for the estrogen to bind to ...ie why you are getting gyno. Fix the problem, and put off your cycle another month or two now while you still don't need to get surgery to correct your lack of planning on the PCT part.

Spawn, is similar to epistane - a PH, but in all actuality more so an oral AAS. A month cycle of this should have been followed by some sort of PCT. What was your dosage like? Did you exceed 40mg/day?

 

[rossman86]

Well theyre not really itchy or hard but it is irritated. Now as far as aa pct for the spawn...is it to late to put off the cycle and hit a pct for the prohormone? I mean i have only been off of it for 6 days and within that month I only really took 3 weeks of it just stretched out into 4 so actually less than the reccomended amount.

 

[Jhotsauce7]

Well theyre not really itchy or hard but it is irritated. Now as far as aa pct for the spawn...is it to late to put off the cycle and hit a pct for the prohormone? I mean i have only been off of it for 6 days and within that month I only really took 3 weeks of it just stretched out into 4 so actually less than the reccomended amount.

Shut down of natural testosterone occurs very quickly. You have estrogen in your system and no testosterone for it to bind to. That is the bottom line. I am not a doctor, but you need to concern yourself with getting something that will assist your body in blocking the estrogen Nolvadex or Arimidex or Toremifene.. and have Letro on hand. Nolva could be run at like 10-20 mg ed, Adex (best choice) at .25mg ed, and letro IF that doesn't help or u get a lump at 2.5mg ed till 2 weeks after symptoms subside.

Yes taking ai's will hinder your gains a little, and that sucks because your first cycle is always the best as far as gains are concerned. That is why I said hold off maybe. It's not the end of the world if you continue it, but your gains wont be maximized.

pm me if you have any q's

 

[joe d]

i used to think ai's where only needed to prevent gyno. the truth is high estro causes all sorts of medical issues. you dont need sky high estro to get your gains. you just need a healthy level. so i you get tested while normal to see your rangew then test again on cycle with a low dose ai you can adjust to see what you need. if your not getting tested (pretty stupid imo) you could guess by taking something like .25mg adex eod throughout a 500mg test cycle and be better off than if you took no ai.

 

[access]

^^^^
Good Advice Joe D.