adolescent gyno

[brew]

I have a slight case of adolescent gyno, is there any possibility of getting rid of it with AI or SERM treatment now that I'm 30? I have pretty much given up hope but thought I would ask anyway.

Also does that mean that I will be more prone to gyno sides in the future? I all most have everything in place for a low dose test run (my first). I have plenty of both nolva and adex on hand just in case, but am thinking of getting some letro just to be safe.

 

[mus1cjunk1e]

Well, I am in the same situation as you. I've had milk gyno since puberty (puffy nips if im not cold, little extra fat in those areas under nips).

I can't tell you whether AI's or SERM's will work to get rid of it (in fact I'd be interested to know), but I ran a cycle with test, masteron, tren, and deca and had no gyno issues. Not saying that you will be the same, but FOR ME having this type of puberty gyno didn't seem to make me more prone.

If I were you I would go see a doc about it (NOT a plastic surgeon). They may be able to recommend something. I am thinking of doing so myself soon. I'm not sure what specific kind of doc you should see. I am interested to know that as well.

 

[jumpmaster82]

very slim chance of getting rid of natty gyno with auxilleries, surgery is probable the only option. I got gyno at puberty, had the surgery at 18 and havent had a problem since.

 

[RearNaked]

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.
Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

[email protected]

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifene in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia.

STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene).

RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

PMID: 15238910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[mus1cjunk1e]

Hmmm. Looks interesting but it looks like they did that study on teens who had just recently developed it. I wonder if that would hold true for people that have had it for 5-10 years now.

Does anyone know what type of doctor to see about this? An endocrinologist maybe?

 

[RearNaked]

Hmmm. Looks interesting but it looks like they did that study on teens who had just recently developed it. I wonder if that would hold true for people that have had it for 5-10 years now.

Does anyone know what type of doctor to see about this? An endocrinologist maybe?

This is true, but I have heard great things about Ralox from fellow bb'ers. I am almost 2 weeks into my Ralox scrpit @ 60mg/wk. Could take up to 6, even 9 months, but it is def worth a try imo.

 

[RearNaked]

Raloxifene (2nd generation SERM) is touted to be very effective with respect to all gyno. It is similar to nolvadex in structure.

while I know Femera - letrozole - has anecdotal buzz, last I searched (about a year ago), the only non-surgical agents that have studies showing reduction of EXISTING gynecomastia are the serms Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - and raloxifene. ralox is more effective, but also more expensive and less available.

Raloxifene
Studies have shown that Raloxifene has a better success rate of reducing the size of gynecomastia in men than Nolvadex(1). It is also less hepatoxic (harmful to the liver) than Nolvadex. 60mg is a standard dosage, which is tapered down to a half dose of 30mg for the last 2 weeks of the cycle in order to avoid rebound. Ralox also takes about 3 weeks to start working, therefore the full 10 weeks is nessecary.

Unfortunately it's true about the SERMs creating more receptors. Good thing I only kept the Ralox dosages at 60mg.

But the thing is, once you reduce the size of the gyno with this protocol, and your body returns to normal (homeostasis), the gyno will not grow, even though there are more estrogen receptors present. Remember, gyno only grows when your hormone levels are wacky (and more estrogen is present.) Considering most of us got gyno from either puberty or steroids, we don't have to worry about gyno returning unless you a) do more steroids or b) have an endocrine problem.
Just to note: The reason people go as high as 240mg to STOP gyno from forming with Raloxifene is because RALOX takes a long time to build up in the blood stream, hence the high dosing.

Once the gyno is formed (pubertal or pre steroid induced; like this post is intended for.) theres no reason to go higher than 60mg.

 

[RearNaked]

One of the biggest fears of steroid use is the development of gyno. This is also one thing along with roid rage and shrunken balls and even shrunken penis that most people especially newbies know about when it comes to steroids. If fact these three things are probably the first thing that pops in mind when a newbie/uneducated person thinks of roids. Gyno is caused by estrogen levels that are elevated beyond normal amounts. It can also be caused by elevated progesterone and prolactin levels, but these are usually only responsible when estrogen levels are also high. The individual sensitivity varies greatly, so whether you are prone to gyno or not you won't know till you run your first cycle, even then it might take a few cycles to see how susceptible you are. There are two ways of tackling this problem. One is in estrogen control, the other is estrogen receptor antagonism with a serm.

It appears to me that running a SERM throughout the cycle at a low dose is a good effective way of preventing gyno. Nolva, clomid, toremifene, or raloxifene are SERMs that can be run during cycle to prevent gyno. These are also better choices than running an ai because it will keep estrogen in your system which will keep exerting some beneficial effects such as glycogen synthesis, bone density, and blood lipids. Which should you run? Well I would rule out clomid because it has too many side effects especially the emotional ones, also it can desensitize the testes to LH which is bad. Toremifene is a great SERM, but I believe its purpose is best served in post cycle therapy, and it's pretty expensive to run during a cycle. So we are left with tamoxifen and raloxifene.

Tamoxifen is the preferred SERM to run during a cycle to prevent gyno. It can be run at doses starting at 10mg ED and increasing if any signs of gyno begin to appear. If gyno begins to appear increasing the dose to 60mg ed till the gyno recedes then tapering the dose back down to maybe 20mg Ed should be OK. Once again you can run the nolva the whole cycle which I recommend, this is a newbie guide so this will be your first cycle better to stay safe than sorry and run the nolva 10mg ED form day one. If on a test cycle maybe you can wait till weeks 3-4 when the test starts to kick in or when you start seeing signs of bloat which would indicated that your test and estrogen levels are rising and then begin the SERM.

Raloxifene is a relatively newcomer to the steroid scene. A medical study comparing tamoxifen and raloxifene at reducing pubertal gyno (gyno caused during puberty due to hormonal imbalances) showed that ralox was a good deal more effective at not only in the percentage of subjects it reduced the gyno in, but also in the level of gyno reduction. Ralox seems to be the better choice for a gyno prevention/treatment SERM during cycle. Ralox can also be used for post cycle therapy but the feedback is limited and I would suggest this best serves its purpose in preventing/reducing gyno. The dosage used is still up in the air. I have done some research and have a hard time finding any consistent numbers when it comes to dosage. I would recommend maybe 30mg ED and working your way up if that seems to be ineffective. If gyno symptoms begin to appear it is imperative that you increase the dosage immediately to treat the gyno. The faster you take action to treat the gyno the more likely it is to go away. Wait t long and it may become permanent.

Gyno can also be treated/prevented by using an AI such as arimidex or letro. Letro is the more powerful of the two, but it can take up to two weeks to take full effect so arimidex might be the better choice. If I was to show signs of gyno I would take a dose of perhaps 60-90mg ralox ED along with .5-1mg arimidex ed. The arimidex shouldn't affect the levels of ralox in the blood as letro would do to nolva. Once the gyno resides the arimidex would be decreased to .25mg ed (basically to the lowest dose that is still effective for you) and the ralox back but to a dose higher than was originally used for prevention, so over 30mg ed. The ai's are best used to treat gyno with SERM. If you're looking for just prevention with a AI use the lowest dose possible as to not hinder gains and prevent possible side effects.

Gyno can also be caused by increased levels of progesterone and prolactin. Prolactin will actually cause lactation. These two hormones usually will not cause gyno unless estrogen is also present so in order to treat gyno caused by progesterone and prolactin we must first treat the excess estrogen. That would be done by using the protocol found above, in addition to that we would add some progesterone/prolactin inhibitors. It is difficult to tell whether it is estrogen or progesterone/prolactin that causes the gyno. If your first cycle is test/tren or test/deca you will not know whether the estrogen form the test is causing gyno or the progesterone form the tren/deca is causing the gyno. Therefore it is best to run test alone for a first cycle.

 

[brew]

Did you get your script from your general practitioner or did you see a specialist? That sounds like a long time, but if I can avoid the knife it would be worth it.

 

[mus1cjunk1e]

I just wonder about adverse affects from suppressing estrogen for so long. Definitely something I want doctor supervised. I think as soon as my levels even back out from my cycle then I'll go get it checked out.

I never really noticed it too much before, but now that I've been leaning out and getting bigger and my chest pops out more, its a little more noticeable, especially when I compare myself to other people. It is still pretty minor though. Probably even more minor than the kids in the study. I just hate the idea of going under a knife.

Also I still wonder if I just get my body fat real low, maybe it will go away naturally? Or maybe it'll just look waaaay worse cause I'll be chiseled except around my nips lol.

 

[brew]

Damm, that was a good read. Thanks for posting it up bro.

 

[RearNaked]

Damm, that was a good read. Thanks for posting it up bro.

No worries bro. I can't count how many times I've been helped out by the good bro's in this forum. Glad if I could help out even a bit bro!

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

I used Letro then Nolva...worked pretty well.

-Legacy

 

[stunter954]

I went to a genral practitioner for the same thing three weeks ago he sent me to a endocrinologist.

 

[AhMadKooL]

Gyno surgery where the gland is completely removed is the best option since by removing the gland there is no possibility of getting gyno again