AB's 2007 log

[blut wump]

I've never worked a 4-day split like that. When I go to four days I've always gone away from the squat-press-pull format. It looks like a tough workout.

Still, if you start with a very close eye on workload and take it from there then maybe it's not so bad. I think you'll find it hard to progress across the board with the exercises and rep-ranges and you might end up relegating some to ancillary exercises.

The more I look at that layout, the more I think you'll bury yourself by having too little time for muscle recovery. Unfortunately, the only options that come to mind are of taking it over to more of a split format. I'll post back if anything gels in my mind.

 

[anotherbutters]

Second try (as before, but I've swapped the rows on Mon and Tue to spread the PR attempts more evenly):

Mon
---
b squat: 5x3 (PRs) - similar to before
row: 5x3 (PRs) - similar to before
bench: 3x8 (hypertrophy) - new

Tue
---
f squat: 5x3 (PRs) - from wed
overhead press: 5x3 (PRs) - from wed
row: 3x8 (hypertrophy) - new

Thu
---
b squat: 3x8 (hypertrophy) - new
bench: 5x3 (PRs) - from mon
deads: 1x5 (PRs) - from wed

Fri (light day)
------------
b squat: 3x1 (not PRs) - similar to before
bench: 3x1 (not PRs) - similar to before
row: 3x1 (not PRs) - similar to before

I've changed the comments too, so you can see my intent of each exercise - where I'm going for PRs and where it's ancilliary hypertrophy work. The changes from what I've done so far are to change the set/rep scheme from 3x5 to 5x3, change Fri from 1x3 to 3x1, and added some hypertrophy work. Overall, the workload is the same apart from the hypertrophy work, which I intend to do light enough that it isn't a max effort (at least initially).

Does that seem better, now I've explained it a bit better? I quite like it as it has a nice mix of hypertrophy and lower rep work and I'm only attempting two PRs per day.

mad dipz, I haven't really thought about it like that, I'm just trying to spread the load so it's managable, whilst keeping Fri light. If this proves too much, I can always keep the format, but reduce the number of sets here and there. Actually, that might be key - I could move to this by adding the hypertrophy work as one set in the first week, two in the second, etc.

 

[blut wump]

I'm now completely confused on reps x sets vs. sets x reps.

 

[anotherbutters]

Sorry, I always write sets x reps, but I can see it being confusing when I write 5x3 after doing 3x5 for so long. When I said "similar to before", I meant in terms of overall load.

I'm going from 5's to triples.

 

[donny43]

Have you thought about a setup like this by having 2 nights a week dedicated to a specific lift to try and improve the amount of weight you can lift.
The first 2 days have a westside feel to them.
A medium night and then another night where you set records for 3,2 or 1 rep.
eg
Mon Heavy
Squat 5x5 or 6x3 etc....
good mornings 5x5
ghr 3x8
unilateral or plyo explosive work.

Tue heavy
Bench press 5x5 or 6x3 etc...
Floor press 5x5
row 5x3
tri extensions 3x8

thursday medium
front squat 3x5
dead/sumo 1x5
shoulder press 3x5

sat light
squat workup to single, double or triple
bench single, double or triple
row single, double or triple

 

[anotherbutters]

I quite like that too, although I wouldn't want to do floor presses as well as benching and I'd want to do more rowing, so Tue would be bench and row at 5x5. Other than that, I like it. Thanks.

That said, I don't have access to a GHR. What unilateral/explosive work were you thinking, because cleans are out due to a dodgy wrist. It isn't that much more work than I've been doing, mainly the GMs and two more sets of squat, bench and row, but maybe that'll do for now.

And I don't know how I'd cope not making a beeline for the squat rack when I enter the gym.

 

[donny43]

I quite like that too, although I wouldn't want to do floor presses as well as benching and I'd want to do more rowing, so Tue would be bench and row at 5x5. Other than that, I like it. Thanks.

That said, I don't have access to a GHR. What unilateral/explosive work were you thinking, because cleans are out due to a dodgy wrist. It isn't that much more work than I've been doing, mainly the GMs and two more sets of squat, bench and row, but maybe that'll do for now.

I put the floor presses or board press in with a close medium grip to emphasize the tris after the bench but rows are important too.

It isnt that much more work than you've been doing your right but there is still a progression on your present workload that will ensure a higher weekly workload for all the muscles associated with a bigger squat dead and bench

For the unilateral or explosive work there are heaps of plyometric excersises or speed deadlifts that can be thrown in and alternated weekly with step ups lunges, reverse lunges etc.

 

[blut wump]

I remember discussing with you, back when this program began, that your initial adjustments would involve spreading the working week over more sessions or more time. One of the downsides simply to adding in, say, a Tuesday session is that you're working legs on two consecutive days. With your layout here, you do the same again on Thu/Fri.

This is my main reservation to what you've outlined and is also the reason why people end up splitting the body into upper/lower, push/pull, chest+tri+lats/legs+PC, etc., etc. The full body is then worked over Mon/Tue and then again over Thu/Fri just to ensure that the muscles have at least a couple of days to recover from the previous workout. Westside can be done MT/TF but is usually spread to S/M/W/F or M/T/T/S.

You also have the restriction of preferring to stick within a Mon-Fri workout schedule and have weekends free. You also still prefer to avoid getting into periodization which requires that you avoid loading and excessive volume.

One plan that uccurs to me is to spread your workout week over six days with each of the current days becoming two days. Your current Mon workout would be Monday and Tuesday, the next would be Thursday and Friday and your current light Friday workout would spill over to the following week. Such a plan would allow for a lot more ancillary work since the week is spread over a longer period.

Actually, as I look at and think about that, I've really just described another split but with every third session pair being a light-load one.

Ho hum.

 

[anotherbutters]

The description of the Starr layout in PP that shows the progression from 3 to 6 workout days per week suggests squatting up to 4 days per week, so I'm still happy doing that amount of squats. I expect my front squats on Tuesday will be affected by the back squats the day before, but I'll still be able to make progress on them. It'll just be a kilo or two lower than it might have been otherwise.

I think I'll try running with my second layout above and just see how it goes. As ever, it's a learning experience and experimentation is part of that! I'll lower the weights enough so that I ought to get at least two weeks of lighter work and aim for PR/near PR weights 3 weeks from now.

 

[mad dipz]

The description of the Starr layout in PP that shows the progression from 3 to 6 workout days per week suggests squatting up to 4 days per week, so I'm still happy doing that amount of squats. I expect my front squats on Tuesday will be affected by the back squats the day before, but I'll still be able to make progress on them. It'll just be a kilo or two lower than it might have been otherwise.

I think I'll try running with my second layout above and just see how it goes. As ever, it's a learning experience and experimentation is part of that! I'll lower the weights enough so that I ought to get at least two weeks of lighter work and aim for PR/near PR weights 3 weeks from now.

well if you're following that model, I'd suggest not going into a 4 day workout just yet, as if you were doing front squats on wednesday I'd assume that was sort of a medium day to help recovery a little because of the less overall workload lifted, even though it was hard. Perhaps bump wednesday to another heavy day with back squats, go at that until progress stalls, and then go ahead and go into a heavy, medium, heavy, light style, or however you had a set up in mind.

Either that or keep front squats on that day, and bump monday and tuesday to a 5x5 spread, making stress a bit higher. This might help progression a little.