Abortion..........WHAT

[JKurz1]

IS YOUR TAKE?

Here's the scenerio, I have a friend who has been married for about 8 years....she's 30, married right out of college. Anyways, she's been extremely unhappy in her marriage for a good 3 years. Her husband, although a nice guy, does his own thing and she does hers. Very rarely do they see each other due to work, friends, etc......but they have stayed married possibly for financial reasons and possibly because they just do their own thing. I mean they dont exchange x-mas gifts, no brithdays, etc....just a weird relationship. ANywho, her dad was dying about 3 months ago and she "felt" the need (she says) to have sex to fullfill her "wife"'s role......whelp, you guessed it....she got preganant and now she is absolutely miserable.

She doesnt know what to do or know how far along she is. She said at least 3 months because it's been that long since sex. She's contimplating an abortion. What would you do? How would he react? What are the legality issues? Is she too far along?

I've always been totally against abortion except in extreme cases (baby deformaties, rape, etc......) but now, I'm not so sure.

 

[Robert Jan]

I'm pro abortion

I'm pro death penalty
I'm pro euthanasia
I'm pro "taking all the warning labels off stuff"

Pro death

pro anything that will improve the content of the populace

 

[JKurz1]

I'm pro abortion

I'm pro death penalty
I'm pro euthanasia
I'm pro "taking all the warning labels off stuff"

Pro death

pro anything that will improve the content of the populace

What are the legalities?

 

[Robert Jan]

What are the legalities?

the law regarding abortion?

i dont know. its probably even different in every state of the us

Here the government pays for it and its legal

 

[Triple-G]

here in Europe abortion is only legal in the first trimester but in the US it seems to be ok to do it in the 2nd also, even if there is no danger to either child or mother, read: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/library/facts/abotaft1st_010600.html the procedure just gets more complicated: http://www.todaysplanet.com/pg/beta/medical/trimester_abortion.htm

its her body and her decision

 

[the nature boy]

I'm pro abortion

I'm pro death penalty
I'm pro euthanasia
I'm pro "taking all the warning labels off stuff"

Pro death

pro anything that will improve the content of the populace

So then logically you'd be pro gun ownership, right? If so I pretty much agree with your death platform, except for the warning labels.

 

[theoak01]

Im totally against it,I dont think it should be illegal however,just because its not a decision I would make it doesnt mean it isnt right for someone else.

but I had a scare where a girl I fucked thought she was pregnant,luckily her period came,but had it not she was getting a abortion, and that totally fucked me up mentally,and Im way more responsible now,I take no chances

 

[from zero]

I'm pro abortion

I'm pro death penalty
I'm pro euthanasia
I'm pro "taking all the warning labels off stuff"

Pro death

pro anything that will improve the content of the populace

Whoa.

I'm pro Robert Jan.

 

[JKurz1]

So what do you think of HER scenerio? Sympathatic or tough sh**?

 

[from zero]

So what do you think of HER scenerio? Sympathatic or tough sh**?

Well, it's obvious that neither she, nor her husband, is in any condition to be a parent. But I dunno, that's just what I gathered quickly from reading that scenario. If the kid ain't going to have a good life from the start, fuck it, abort.

 

[-SD-]

Yes, I think her and her husband should be aborted in the 90th trimester.

 

[JKurz1]

Yes, I think her and her husband should be aborted in the 90th trimester.

was that necessary?

 

[Y_lifter]

No one here has mentioned putting the baby up for adoption ..

I agree with FZ's comment on the child being brought into a unloving home
being bad.

So why not give this baby to a loving one instead of killing it ?

 

[WODIN]

Why do we automatically assume that someone who wants to adopt will provide a loving home? I bet 1 in 100 works out.

 

[Y_lifter]

Why do we automatically assume that someone who wants to adopt will provide a loving home? I bet 1 in 100 works out.

Yes, its not 100% guaranteed, butI doubt the numbers are that low.. seriously..

I mean think about it..
One home does not want a baby or cannot deal with one
One home would do anything for one.

I would take that bet on home number 2

 

[RottenWillow]

its her body and her decision

No it's not. It's someone else's body that is temporarily relying on her's for life support until it's developed enough to live independently.

 

[Mandinka2]

No it's not. It's someone else's body that is temporarily relying on her's for life support until it's developed enough to live independently.

Wise in your twilight years you have become

 

[JKurz1]

She might be too far along...........plus, the moral issues will be tough to break.....

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Personally - the golden rule. You wouldn't be here if someone did it to you, so, don't do it to anyone else.

Politcally - it's not the government's place to make laws about this. People own their bodies. Conversely, the government should not pay for it either.

 

[john937]

I support her right to the abortion, but agree adoption would be a better choice.

 

[curling]

No it's not. It's someone else's body that is temporarily relying on her's for life support until it's developed enough to live independently.

Nice post.

And I agree with ylifter. They should put the baby up for adoption. But I bet after she has it she will want to keep it unless she is a cold hearted bitch.

 

[Carmen]

I'm pro abortion

I'm pro death penalty
I'm pro euthanasia
I'm pro "taking all the warning labels off stuff"

Pro death

pro anything that will improve the content of the populace

me too.
except maybe for the warning labels.

 

[Carmen]

the law regarding abortion?

i dont know. its probably even different in every state of the us

Here the government pays for it and its legal

i think very few will agree with me but i think thats good.
its a woman's body and we should have the freedom to choose. even if you don't agree with it, or would never get one, don't dictate what another woman can do.
its one of the few things i'm opinionated on.
well, that, and bench shirts. lol.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I'm pro abortion

I'm pro death penalty
I'm pro euthanasia
I'm pro "taking all the warning labels off stuff"

Pro death

pro anything that will improve the content of the populace

it is the genetic mutuations and abnormalities that allow the species to adapt andmove forward.

You're arguing for aggressive darwinism, but in doing so you are calling for UNnatural selection - in short, taking out the mutuations and differences before they can impact the species.

 

[gab9681]

i think very few will agree with me but i think thats good.
its a woman's body and we should have the freedom to choose. even if you don't agree with it, or would never get one, don't dictate what another woman can do.
its one of the few things i'm opinionated on.
well, that, and bench shirts. lol.

Yes, but shouldn't the child have the right to choose as well? She chose to have sex with her husband. She chose to not use protection. It is not the child's fault that it isn't wanted. Adoption would be a better answer in my opinion. If a person is raped, or if it is known that the baby will end up with a horrible disease or mutation, or if having the baby will kill the mother, then I can understand abortion. But if the mother and baby are both healthy, then i believe it is unfair to the child.

 

[WODIN]

Yes, its not 100% guaranteed, butI doubt the numbers are that low.. seriously..

I mean think about it..
One home does not want a baby or cannot deal with one
One home would do anything for one.

I would take that bet on home number 2

Adopting is not equally to doing anything for one.

I mean if you find a couple that answers I would do anything for a baby then ask them if them this. Would you let your wife castrate you with a rusty saw for a baby?

I bet you get a nope out of that one!

 

[randk]

its her body and her decision

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I'd say abort it. If it's gonna have to grow up with a shitty life, why bother having it in the first place? It was a mistake, and mistakes are made to be corrected and so you learn from them.

Correct the mistake = abort the fetus
Learn from the mistake = have her tubes tied
Repeat of the mistake = well...Robert Jan will assist on this one

 

[Y_lifter]

Adopting is not equally to doing anything for one.

I mean if you find a couple that answers I would do anything for a baby then ask them if them this. Would you let your wife castrate you with a rusty saw for a baby?

I bet you get a nope out of that one!

OK.. Now you're just being over dramatic....
I hope you got my meaning on ANYTHING...

I'm not talking about the type woman that is depicted in those
Lifetime Network babynapping movies..

A honest strong desire to have a child because you cannot have one naturally.

 

[deltreefitness]

I support her right to the abortion, but agree adoption would be a better choice.

I hardly doubt it. Do you have any idea how many children are currently waiting to be adobted already?

 

[Carmen]

Yes, but shouldn't the child have the right to choose as well? She chose to have sex with her husband. She chose to not use protection. It is not the child's fault that it isn't wanted. Adoption would be a better answer in my opinion. If a person is raped, or if it is known that the baby will end up with a horrible disease or mutation, or if having the baby will kill the mother, then I can understand abortion. But if the mother and baby are both healthy, then i believe it is unfair to the child.

its not a child yet. its a bunch of cells.

 

[RottenWillow]

its a woman's body and we should have the freedom to choose.

as a point of fact, that's simply not accurate. It is someone else's body that is temporarily relying on our body for life support until it's developed enough to live independently.


now my opinion:

Our role as temporary incubator does not empower us to decide whether or not that this new person should live or die.

 

[gab9681]

its not a child yet. its a bunch of cells.

Yeah, technically speaking you are nothing but a bunch of cells right now too. So how does that make it any different? If you want to follow that path, then we should be able to abort anyone that is not wanted. After all, they are just a bunch of cells, so what does it matter? I don't want my neighbors living so close to me, so maybe I will just abort them and then take over their house. Sometimes when I am downtown I don't want all those people in front of me in the bar lines, so maybe I should just abort them and then I could get in more quickly. And this guy at work got the promotion that I wanted, and I don't want him here anymore to keep holding me back, so I am just going to abort him and then my life will be better. If you have an abortion, you are killing another human, plain and simple. If you can live with that, fine, current laws say it is okay, but I for one could not live with myself having killed another perfectly healthy human being who posed no risk to me.

 

[Robert Jan]

So then logically you'd be pro gun ownership, right? If so I pretty much agree with your death platform, except for the warning labels.

Actually im turning around on that...

some years ago I was against gun ownership
then I was undecided/didn't care
lately im thinking it may be better if we're allowed.

Still not really sure though

 

[giantdouche]

as a point of fact, that's simply not accurate. It is someone else's body that is temporarily relying on our body for life support until it's developed enough to live independently.


now my opinion:

Our role as temporary incubator does not empower us to decide whether or not that this new person should live or die.

I agree with this broad.

 

[RottenWillow]

I agree with this broad.

thanks douchebag

 

[WODIN]

OK.. Now you're just being over dramatic....
I hope you got my meaning on ANYTHING...

I'm not talking about the type woman that is depicted in those
Lifetime Network babynapping movies..

A honest strong desire to have a child because you cannot have one naturally.

I thought I was bein facicous....

You make this gal sound uber sexy by the way.

 

[bdog527]

its not a child yet. its a bunch of cells.

A bunch of cells? That's exactly what you are and have always been.
You need a new definition if you are going to continue to argue your point.

 

[Carmen]

Yeah, technically speaking you are nothing but a bunch of cells right now too. .

yes, but i can survive on my own.
a single fertilized egg can not. its nothing but an egg with a sperm inside of it and if that was implanted in me at the moment, i'd have it removed.
you dont' have to agree with me and you're not gonna change my mind anymore than i'm going to change yours.
either way, if it happened to me, i'd abort.

 

[Y_lifter]

I hardly doubt it. Do you have any idea how many children are currently waiting to be adobted already?

I would imagine Most of the Children you speak of are older kids or special needs Children, yes ?

Not knowing anything about this ladys baby negates this argument IMO

Not many healthy US newborns are on waiting lists as far as I know..


Sad but most people want near perfection, vs a loving child to care for that needs extra time and $..

KUDOs to those willing to take in loving special needs babys and especially teens.

 

[giantdouche]

yes, but i can survive on my own.
a single fertilized egg can not. its nothing but an egg with a sperm inside of it and if that was implanted in me at the moment, i'd have it removed.
you dont' have to agree with me and you're not gonna change my mind anymore than i'm going to change yours.
either way, if it happened to me, i'd abort.

What about retards? Most of them can't survive on their own either. Should we kill them too?

 

[Carmen]

What about retards? Most of them can't survive on their own either. She will kill them too?

"she"... you mean me?
why don't you ask her, or is it too stupid of a question?

 

[giantdouche]

"she"... you mean me?
why don't you ask her, or is it too stupid of a question?

Edited. It was a typo...happens sometimes.

 

[giantdouche]

why don't you ask her, or is it too stupid of a question?

Stupid question? You're the one who made the justifcation that being unable to survive on your own = death. A 3 year old can't survive on his own either...

That's it, I'm gonna go kill me some babies and retards.

 

[RottenWillow]

I would imagine Most of the Children you speak of are older kids or special needs Children, yes ?

not "most", practically all. That's where the system breaks down. Everybody wants an infant. Any child beyond elementary school ages or with serious medical or behaviorial issues has a poor chance of being adopted. Most kids in these categories age out of the system in foster care. And from my experience non therapeutic foster care families generally have very little tolerance for significant behavior problems, so those kids easily go through ten or more short- and long-term placements by age 18.

 

[Carmen]

Stupid question? You're the one who made the justifcation that being unable to survive on your own = death. A 3 year old can't survive on his own either...

That's it, I'm gonna go kill me some babies and retards.

i didn't realize you were so simple minded to think that i would condone killing babies and retards.
its a stupid analogy and there's no point in arguing with you since you're not going to change your mind, and neither am i.
surviving doesn't mean "able to make a sandwhich and secure a job" - it means breathing and being viable outside of the host body. can a 1 day old fertilized egg do that? is there some measure a doctor can take if i had it removed from my body to make it survive like a premature baby could? no.
i'm not going to continue this conversation with you. you've made up your mind. so have i.

 

[gab9681]

yes, but i can survive on my own.
a single fertilized egg can not. its nothing but an egg with a sperm inside of it and if that was implanted in me at the moment, i'd have it removed.
you dont' have to agree with me and you're not gonna change my mind anymore than i'm going to change yours.
either way, if it happened to me, i'd abort.

A one year old child cannot survive on its own either. Nor can a 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 year old. Shit, most kids wouldn't be able to survive on their own until they hit their teenage years. So, I have a 6 year old daughter. She would not be able to survive on her own. If she starts causing inconveniances in my life, I should be able to kill her according to your views, right? And that is fine, according to you. What if I get sick of having to drive her around and take care of her and make sure she gets food and clothing? Yup, I guess I'll just kill her and be done with it. Yup, I'll just go home tonight, suck her up with the vacuum, cutting her into a bunch of little pieces, and then I'll incinerate her just so my life is easier.

 

[Robert Jan]

it is the genetic mutuations and abnormalities that allow the species to adapt andmove forward.

You're arguing for aggressive darwinism, but in doing so you are calling for UNnatural selection - in short, taking out the mutuations and differences before they can impact the species.

im not talking about abnormalities im talking about failures

the only way such degenerates would impact the population is down

 

[Y_lifter]

not "most", practically all. That's where the system breaks down. Everybody wants an infant. Any child beyond elementary school ages or with serious medical or behaviorial issues has a poor chance of being adopted. Most kids in these categories age out of the system in foster care. And from my experience non therapeutic foster care families generally have very little tolerance for significant behavior problems, so those kids easily go through ten or more short- and long-term placements by age 18.

So how does this make Infant Adoption wrong?
Would having no infants to adopt make people change what they want
or what they are able to manage?

Would placing these children in homes where they are not wanted or felt
to be a burden be better than foster care ?

Why can't we help fix the mostly sociological reasons these kids/teens are orphans in the first place ?

 

[Carmen]

A one year old child cannot survive on its own either. Nor can a 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 year old. Shit, most kids wouldn't be able to survive on their own until they hit their teenage years. So, I have a 6 year old daughter. She would not be able to survive on her own. If she starts causing inconveniances in my life, I should be able to kill her according to your views, right? And that is fine, according to you. What if I get sick of having to drive her around and take care of her and make sure she gets food and clothing? Yup, I guess I'll just kill her and be done with it. Yup, I'll just go home tonight, suck her up with the vacuum, cutting her into a bunch of little pieces, and then I'll incinerate her just so my life is easier.

read my last post, but don't change my words- i never said its fine for you to kill your daughter- thats disgusting that you even said that.

 

[giantdouche]

i didn't realize you were so simple minded to think that i would condone killing babies and retards.
its a stupid analogy and there's no point in arguing with you since you're not going to change your mind, and neither am i.
surviving doesn't mean "able to make a sandwhich and secure a job" - it means breathing and being viable outside of the host body. can a 1 day old fertilized egg do that? is there some measure a doctor can take if i had it removed from my body to make it survive like a premature baby could? no.
i'm not going to continue this conversation with you. you've made up your mind. so have i.

That's great and all. You still haven't given a good reason as to why you support abortion.

I'm not a huge anti-abortion guy, mainly because I don't think death is such a big deal. But from a logical standpoint, it seems like abortion is no different than murder.

 

[JKurz1]

you have no idea how upset I am that I created this thread...thought it would help me help her.......thanks..............

 

[RottenWillow]

So how does this make Infant Adoption wrong??

Huh? it doesnt. wutchu talkin bout Y?

 

[gab9681]

you have no idea how upset I am that I created this thread...thought it would help me help her.......thanks..............

Yeah, abortion is a tricky topic. My only advice to you would be to have her and her husband discuss it and decide what's best for them. I have been playing a little devil's advocate in this thread, but the fact still remains, according to the law, it is her decision. She has to decide what is the best choice for her. But I would hope that she includes her husband in the decision making. It's tricky too being that they are married but don't really have a true relationship. The child may pull them together or drive them further apart. If she could handle being a single mother, then maybe that is the route to take. But if she doesn't want the child at all, then she has some options, i.e. abortion or adoption. There are pros and cons to each situation. So the best thing you could do is just be supportive and be there for her. When it comes to a child, the decision is always going to be a hard one. If she chooses to abort, maybe everything will be fine. Or maybe a little while down the road she will regret doing it and it will end up fucking with her head and she will be miserable. If she keeps its and later decides that was a bad choice, she will be forced to raise a child she doesn't want and that chile may not have the best life growing up because she doesn't truly care for him/her. I don't know. I just know from experience that I couldn't choose abortion or adoption. We chose to keep the child and it has been tough, but she is a happy beautiful girl and she was the best thing to ever happen to me.

 

[Forge]

you have no idea how upset I am that I created this thread...thought it would help me help her.......thanks..............

That's just it, you can't help her, she has to decide this on her own. Kudos for trying to help her but it's really up to her and the husband. The best thing you can do for her is just to be a friend right now, it sounds like no matter what she decides she is in for some tough times ahead.

 

[Delinquent]

Flush it Flush it

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

im not talking about abnormalities im talking about failures

the only way such degenerates would impact the population is down

if only the science of genetics were so simple.

Remember that we draw the lines we conform to as normal today, forever unaware of what Nature has in store.

Today's failure is tomorrow's surviving mutation.

 

[velvett]

So what do you think of HER scenerio? Sympathatic or tough sh**?

Honestly, while I'm pro choice I'm not particularly sympathatic to her situation. She willing stays in bad marriage and she willingly and knowingly let herself get pregnant by a man that she no longer has a positive relationship.

 

[Robert Jan]

if only the science of genetics were so simple.

Remember that we draw the lines we conform to as normal today, forever unaware of what Nature has in store.

Today's failure is tomorrow's surviving mutation.

I dont think we're talking about the same stuff.

Down syndrome kids dont produce fertile offspring

usually neither do people who are blind deaf and spastic

evolution is totally besides the point

Dont get all puffy about the science of evolution either... been there, studied it, took some pics and came back.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I dont think we're talking about the same stuff.

Down syndrome kids dont produce fertile offspring

usually neither do people who are blind deaf and spastic

evolution is totally besides the point

Dont get all puffy about the science of evolution either... been there, studied it, took some pics and came back.

you're just playing semantics now because your original post was off target.

 

[jenscats5]

I'm adopted..........and that said....it needs to be her choice....Sad that she is even in this situation, but Jkurz all you can do is support them/her in whatever choice they decide on......



As an adopted person I still support freedom of choice -- regardless of how one personally feels about abortion -- it's not your right to foist upon other individuals your personal choice. That's why choice is out there.....and the freedom to make a decision you personally may not agree with....

And instead of arguing against abortion on a chat room with faceless strangers why don't those against abortion go out & be a foster parent, or foster buddy or a child who is waiting for adoption (if your'e not already)?? Do something for the good of the children who are here & need someone now. Alas, I guess it's just easier to try to browbeat others into agreeing with your own opinion.......