Ab Gurus Needed: Fonz and others

[ColdCut]

Waddup fellas,

Its seems as if Im doing somehting wrong here, cuz after 5 months of good trainin I look like im pregnant and im only 11-12% bf
My Mid abs (bellybuton area) are really TOO big and the small amount of fat on top really makes it look like i have a big gut even tho im a 31-32 waist. Im not exagerating, especially after a meal i will look like a hardcore beer drinker.

My routine has only changed once, Ill list them here:

I used to do:
Machine crunches: 3x100lbsx15
Situps on the Decline situp bench with a 35lb plate 3x35lb x 10
Obleques on the incline seat/bench thing with a 35 plate 3x35x15
(the one where you are tilted so your hip touches the bench and you lower yourself over the pad and come up again)
Situps on flat situp bench with a 45lb plate 3x45x10-12
Crunches (just bodyweight) 3x15-20


NOW i do:
Situps on Flat bench 3x35lbsx10-12
Situps on Decline situp bench 3x 25lbs x 10
Side Bridges (bodyweight) 3x 10 each side
hanging leg lifts (bodyweight) 3x15

Upper abs.........ok, could be better
Mid abs........... cant see em, but guessing too big cuz i look like i have a gut
lower abs (below belly button) ...........almost nonexistant
obleques..............shrunk a bit but okay lookin......wanna grow a bit more



What the hell should i be doing for some decent abs? How do i get the abs more muscular, but at they same time make them really TIGHT and FIRM so that my stomach isnt huge, and the muscles actually prevent my stomach from getting big when i eat a meal??

 

[Ingram]

I honestly think most people overwork their abs. When there is too much resistance they can grow outwards causing the bloated look. It's all about low bodyfat...

The different sections of the abs (6 pack, 8 pack for some) are divided by fibrous muscle for structural reasons. These are not separate muscles, so they can't be isolated or built up separately. If they could be isolated then in theory you would have the ability to flex certain portions of your abs while the others stay unflexed. Try flexing your lower abs and keep the top ones loose... aint going to happen!

If you want the "lower abs" to come out you have to ditch the fat on top of them. So hit the treadmill, change your diet, or slap your mother for giving you bad genetics. Leg lifts and other so called "lower abs" exercises won't change a thing. When you are doing these "lower abs exercises" you can usually feel a burning on your lower stomach. Most people thing that it's their "lower abs" working, BUT.... that isn't coming from your abs, those are your hip flexors being pulled and worked.

My suggestion for ab work is to keep them tight on every exercise, especially heavy compound movements deads, squats, bench, military, lunges. For isolating abs I suggest no more than 4-5 mins of non weighted ab work (Crunches, Resistance balls, etc)

My 2 cents,
-Ingram

 

[bignate73]

to be honest, i would lay off of direct work for a while and let them atrophy. that seems to be the problem IMO, is that they have GROWN too much for your liking. you can keep getting leaner and that will definitely improve them, but it seem the answer you want is a routine that will slender them down. wont happen unless you are extremely lean or you get rid of some of that muscle.

 

[supreme]

Start with what Bignate said, but also work on your TVA & your obliques. The TVA will pull the abdominal wall inward (activate by pulling your belly button towards the spine)

Work the obliques for they criss cross your body and when have proper develoment they act like a corset, holding the stomach and internal organs in.

Also what is your pelvic alignment? if you have an anterior tilt, your stomach will hang forward. Think of it like this: The pelvis is a bowl (actually its the Latin word for "bowl") and the visceral organs sit in the bowl. You tilt the bowl forward due to tight hip flexors, tight spinal erectors and weak hams / lower rectus / internal obliques and everything falls forward.- your gut hangs out (even if its all muscle, its pushed forward by the organs)

You now have a constant light elastic force placed on the rectus abdominus (6-pack) and the muscle become disteneded and overstretched; you actually add sarcomeres to the muscle fibers(the muscle fibers increase in length -NOT in #). This is what happens to many women during pregnancy and why they can't get rid of the "kangaroo pouch"

You fix it by NO crunches for a while. You work the TVA, Lower rectus, internal obliques (for due to the insertion of the internal obliques they are catagorized as lower abdominal muslces for they aid in up to 10 degrees of posterior rotation of your pelvis)

When you ad crucnhes back in, DO NOT lock your feet under anything or you will just activate and over stimulate your hip flexors!

Work your abs in the following order: TVA, Lower rectus, obliques, upper rectus. If you start with upper rectus (i.e. crunches) you will not have the neuroligical control and coordination to correclty activate the lower rectus later for they are the same muscle, (just working different segments) you will have fatigued the lower rectus and you wil not be able to maintain a neutral pelvis.

And before someone asks, yes you can segmentally activate the upper / lower rectus with different exercises. This is due to their multiple sources of innervation, unlike most muscles which only have a primary and secondary source of innervation, the abs have 8 - thus allowing you to do several motions at once - like contract the TVA, aid in posterior pelvic rotation, counter rotate torso and flex the torso (other wise known as a twisting crunch). The lower rectus are innervated by the illiohypogastric & illioinguinal nerves.

Hope this helped!

S

 

[sweed]

cardio and diet.... thats all i have to say

 

[needsize]

I've always felt that simple was best when it came to abs, same as pretty much everything else. For over 5 years now I've only done 1 exercise for around 5 sets, at most 1x per week for abs. And for serratus and intercostals I have done nothing other than deads and squats. I know genetics do come into play, but this is how its worked for me...

 

[Omegasox]

Damn nice post Supreme. Interesting read.

 

[lavi]

You fix it by NO crunches for a while. You work the TVA, Lower rectus, internal obliques (for due to the insertion of the internal obliques they are catagorized as lower abdominal muslces for they aid in up to 10 degrees of posterior rotation of your pelvis)

How do you work the TVA, lower rectus, and internal obliques?

 

[leatherface]

hey Ingram just curious, i'm guessing thats you in your avatar so, how much do you weigh and how tall are ya?

 

[Debaser]

I'd like to add that if he has a pelvic tilt, he should probably focus on wall crunches or something similar for an abdominal exercise, one that doesn't engage the hip flexors so as to help release their tightness.

I'm actually doing the Egoscue method for correcting this, and after only 4 days of doing it I'm noticing dramatic results, and my feet are far less everted than they used to be as well.

 

[supreme]

first;

Needsize - Awesome pic!; you are right on with working your serratus etc. with deads & squats along with low volume strength exercises - the abs are fast twitch strength muscles, not slow twitch endurance muscles.

You are right about genetics, but I would love to know your diet / supplement program to aid in fat loss?, do you do any cardio? or just genetics?

To work the TVA you need to do all your exrecises, not only abs with the belly button drawn toward the spine- but do not walk around 24 hours a day with the TVA drawn in or you will make all the muscles hypertonic and you will not be able to expand your ribcage to breath deep, thus all cardio work will be harder. "Those that cannot ventilate cannot run well!" Also try variations of the plank, kneeling quadruped, bridges, reverse bridges etc.


The obliques can be worked with all rotation exercises and side bending/lifting:

Russian twists, full-contact twist, woodchop, reverse woodchop, supine Russian twist, side-bends, overhead side-bend, lying side-ab raise, 1 arm (suitcase) deadlift, cross-body crunch

The lower abs need a specific progression based on their strength, the best place to learn this is the following book (awesome read, cheesy pics, good exercise descriptions): Muscle Mags: Awesome ABS - by Paul Chek.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_4/002-9269790-3753653?v=glance&s=books

S

 

[ProtienFiend]

I'm actually doing the Egoscue method for correcting this,

what is this?

 

[supreme]

Egoscue is good, have 2 of his books. I use some of his stretches and exercises as homework for my clients.

He has a cool website also, you put in your info and it will tell you whats misaligned etc.

S

 

[needsize]

first;

Needsize - Awesome pic!; you are right on with working your serratus etc. with deads & squats along with low volume strength exercises - the abs are fast twitch strength muscles, not slow twitch endurance muscles.

You are right about genetics, but I would love to know your diet / supplement program to aid in fat loss?, do you do any cardio? or just genetics?



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_4/002-9269790-3753653?v=glance&s=books

S

when I dieted down that lean, the diet was 40-40-20, very little cardio as it made my quads smaller. For supps I switched between clen and eca every 2 weeks. Normally I am between 10-12% bf, but can still see my abs then as they are so well developed

 

[Ingram]

hey Ingram just curious, i'm guessing thats you in your avatar so, how much do you weigh and how tall are ya?

5'7 210lbs

-Ingram

 

[supreme]

Needsize - I agree with the 40/40/20 diet. I find myself & many others do better on it.

I also agree that too much cardio, especially long duration work will shrink the legs - those with great genetics or some form of anabolic can do more long duration cardio without sacrificing muscle.

S

 

[ColdCut]

Thanks Goes out to everybody that replied;

Supreme - you da man! but heres another question:
what excercises should be done to work the TVA, Lower rectus, obliques, and upper rectus?

what does TVA stand for anyway?
thx

 

[casualbb]

TVA = transverse abdominus... methinks...

 

[supreme]

Yep:

TVA = tranverse abdominus or transversus for short.

Read in one of my replies - I listed the exercises to do, I'll try to come up with more and some online pics

S

 

[Fonz]

cardio and diet.... thats all i have to say

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Doesn't matter if you do 1000 crunches a day if you have a poor diet and do some slight cardio(Not completely necessary but does speed up fat loss).

Abs = Diet The End.

Crunches and other ab excercises gives you strength in those areas, analogous to benching. You can get stronger over time by benching. Same thing applies to abs. Mine are very thick due to years of intense over-training(5X/week I trained abs). I learned my lesson about 5 years ago, when i realized that it was for ther most part diet. You don't get detail from training abs.......the detail is already there. Its just covered by fat. get rid of that fat...and you'll see the detail. It really is that simple.

Fonz

 

[needsize]

Needsize - I agree with the 40/40/20 diet. I find myself & many others do better on it.

I also agree that too much cardio, especially long duration work will shrink the legs - those with great genetics or some form of anabolic can do more long duration cardio without sacrificing muscle.

S

true, funny thing is I was running anabolics, but was still losing quad size due to the cardio

 

[Texas Ranger]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Doesn't matter if you do 1000 crunches a day if you have a poor diet and do some slight cardio(Not completely necessary but does speed up fat loss).

Abs = Diet The End.

Crunches and other ab excercises gives you strength in those areas, analogous to benching. You can get stronger over time by benching. Same thing applies to abs. Mine are very thick due to years of intense over-training(5X/week I trained abs). I learned my lesson about 5 years ago, when i realized that it was for ther most part diet. You don't get detail from training abs.......the detail is already there. Its just covered by fat. get rid of that fat...and you'll see the detail. It really is that simple.

Fonz

Fonz, is 100% right!! Lose the fat with your diet, then you'll see the abs....

 

[callthedoctor]

I just read an internet article about the TVA....and how it is the only muscle that will make your abs FLATTER....

The author recommended vacuums (sp?).....both seated and on all fours...(can do the seated ones at work...)

Has anyone tried these? I'm going to start doing them along with needsize's ab routine...I need both flatness and muscle growth as I'm currently sporting a 'one-pack'....

 

[lavi]

what are vacuums bro? thnx

 

[Jandy]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ms-fit5.htm

Consider vaccums

 

[lavi]

cool, thanks