Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

a thought about suicide

GoldenDelicious

New member
the longer i live, and burn my way through time, the more i think that people who commit suicide sometimes do the right thing

im starting to have a lot of respect for, and empathise with, people who end their lives to preserve their dignity, and live life, and death, according to their own terms

i know that a lot of people are going to say 'what about the family' but you know what, a mans life is his own, and he should live it the way he wants it, or not at all. this applies to young people as well, not just the old and infirm.

being a slave to your own inadequacies and living life on your knees is far worse than a young death, in my opinion

just a thought
 
everyone says it takes a coward... i dunno about that. it seems pretty damn hard to actually put a gun in your mouth and have the balls to pull the trigger.
 
GoldenDelicious said:
the longer i live, and burn my way through time, the more i think that people who commit suicide sometimes do the right thing

im starting to have a lot of respect for, and empathise with, people who end their lives to preserve their dignity, and live life, and death, according to their own terms

i know that a lot of people are going to say 'what about the family' but you know what, a mans life is his own, and he should live it the way he wants it, or not at all. this applies to young people as well, not just the old and infirm.

being a slave to your own inadequacies and living life on your knees is far worse than a young death, in my opinion

just a thought

Everyone thinks about it at some point.

You either do it or you don't.

Pondering the unponderable is a losers game. You have made the decision to live (otherwise you would be dead already). Now get over it and take the necessary steps to be happy, whether it is accomplishing the goals you've set out to do, seeking the care of a psychiatrist, or both.
 
Lumberg said:
Now get over it and take the necessary steps to be happy, whether it is accomplishing the goals you've set out to do, seeking the care of a psychiatrist, or both.

I agree with you. I think people have to take responsibility over their own lives and make something of them. Everybody has their low points and you must decide how to define them.
I know too many people who has done it, and succeeded. The problem is that sometimes it is a physiologial reason for these thoughts. And in that case one really should find help.
It's like walking around with a broken foot that hurts like hell. When you finally mend it you feel so stupid that you didn't do it earlier. It would have saved you a lot of pain.
Being depressed could be a form of sickness, but there is help to get.
 
GoldenDelicious said:
the longer i live, and burn my way through time, the more i think that people who commit suicide sometimes do the right thing

im starting to have a lot of respect for, and empathise with, people who end their lives to preserve their dignity, and live life, and death, according to their own terms

i know that a lot of people are going to say 'what about the family' but you know what, a mans life is his own, and he should live it the way he wants it, or not at all. this applies to young people as well, not just the old and infirm.

being a slave to your own inadequacies and living life on your knees is far worse than a young death, in my opinion

just a thought

CRRRRRRRAAAAAAAP.

The measure of your life is how you face adversity and not 'I just got fired, boo hoo' adversity, I mean ADVERSITY: Jail, cancer, loss of limb, loss of love.

Terminal illness changes that game. As does impending death: sepuku has huge honor.

You can pull the plug and think nothing of family, it is your life to live or waste, until someone calls you Daddy.
 
posted by chefwide:
You can pull the plug and think nothing of family, it is your life to live or waste, until someone calls you Daddy.

i dunno if that makes sense because if you can pull the plug and think nothing of family, doesn't children get included in family also ?
 
mikeyboy604 said:
posted by chefwide:
You can pull the plug and think nothing of family, it is your life to live or waste, until someone calls you Daddy.

i dunno if that makes sense because if you can pull the plug and think nothing of family, doesn't children get included in family also ?

The reference is pretty clear by virtue of the last phrase which seperates that from which you come from those who you sire. Good grammar or even appropriate symantics? No. Did you understand what I said?
 
I have nothing worth living for except the desire to get something worth living for. In the morning I ask God for me to either die, or come across something that makes me love life. Every night I go to sleep with the exact opposite.

I have no intentions of killing myself though. Just doesn't seem worth it to me. Can't explain what goes through the minds of the ones who do. I'd rather die doing something considered so stupid that the gov't will give me a MOH.
 
Last edited:
HEY! :mad: enough with the psuedo bullshit counselling, every one on the board should know about my theory of suicide by sex tour. i aint doing it. theres too many people i could piss off by staying alive :p take fonz for instance :p

but really, its just a different way of living.

i live my life by saying if i cant win, i dont play. thats why i dont get involved with nasty people, or nasty situations, because no matter what i do, ill come out with shit/egg on my face. same principle. you choose your battles. fortunately for me, i have been dealt a good hand and ill be in it for a long, amusing ride :)

the reason i posted this thread is because i was reading a bunch of stuf where people were saying its selfish, cowardly etc etc.....i say bullshit. sometimes, its an honerable, dignified way to go out.

anyway the final of average joe is on, i gotta go :D
 
GoldenDelicious said:
HEY! :mad: enough with the psuedo bullshit counselling, every one on the board should know about my theory of suicide by sex tour. i aint doing it. theres too many people i could piss off by staying alive :p take fonz for instance :p

but really, its just a different way of living.

i live my life by saying if i cant win, i dont play. thats why i dont get involved with nasty people, or nasty situations, because no matter what i do, ill come out with shit/egg on my face. same principle. you choose your battles. fortunately for me, i have been dealt a good hand and ill be in it for a long, amusing ride :)

the reason i posted this thread is because i was reading a bunch of stuf where people were saying its selfish, cowardly etc etc.....i say bullshit. sometimes, its an honerable, dignified way to go out.

anyway the final of average joe is on, i gotta go :D

"Sometimes" being the key word
 
ChefWide said:
CRRRRRRRAAAAAAAP.

The measure of your life is how you face adversity and not 'I just got fired, boo hoo' adversity, I mean ADVERSITY: Jail, cancer, loss of limb, loss of love.

Terminal illness changes that game. As does impending death: sepuku has huge honor.

You can pull the plug and think nothing of family, it is your life to live or waste, until someone calls you Daddy.



This really says alot.....
 
oh that bitch!!!! as if she chose the good looking dude!!!!

phenomenal fuckeup, milena. that adam guy was a great dude

wonder if he'll commit suicide now :p
 
Hey, GD, read Epicurean (founder of stoicism) moral argument for suicide, I'm not sure what the original text is called, but the basic premiss is that fearing death is just as irrational as fearing not being born, and if the means to cope with pain exceed its threshold, you should be morally justified in the act.
Another great one is by Hume "Of Suicide", and "Suicide" by Emmanuel Kant - these are more concerned with utilitarian/consequentialist justifications.
 
um in case you guys hadnt noticed, this is now an "average joe" thread ok :p

juve mate ill give it a look, its about time i stepped up my reading material a little...i have become a little to pulp fiction lately

Y_lifter, i know that over there in america your life belongs to the president, but over here in australia we kinda do what we want :D lol kidding :p
 
More than two decades of reports have linked low serotonin levels in the brain to depression, aggressive behavior and a tendency toward impulsiveness, but the evidence has been particularly confusing with regard to suicide. A number of studies have found reductions in serotonin in the brains of suicides, whereas others have not. Some have observed a lack of serotonin in one part of the brain but not elsewhere. Still others have described increases in the number of receptors for serotonin or deficits in the chain of chemical events that convey the serotonin signal from those receptors to the inside of a neuron.

Despite the inconsistencies, the bulk of evidence points strongly to a problem in the brains of suicides involving the serotonin system. That line of thinking has been bolstered by the recent findings of Arango and Mann.


In a second-floor laboratory at the upper tip of Manhattan, Arango's technician leans into an open freezer to use a machine called a microtome to pare a feather-light slice from a frozen brain donated by grieving relatives anxious to help science address the mystery of suicide. Using a chilled brush, she delicately coaxes the rime of icy tissue onto a glass slide the size of a snapshot. With the body heat from her own gloved hands, she then melts the brain sliver onto the glass; observing the process is reminiscent of watching bright sunlight on a frigid winter day dissolve frost on a window.

The scientists working with the Columbia collection divide the brains into left and right hemispheres and then carefully section each hemisphere into 10 or 12 blocks from front to back. Once frozen and put through the microtome, every block yields roughly 160 slices that are thinner than a human hair.

The chief benefit of this approach is that Arango's and Mann's groups can perform several different biochemical tests on the same brain slice and know the exact anatomical locations of the variations they find. By reassembling the slices virtually, they can compile an overall model of how those abnormalities might work in concert to affect a complex behavior.

At a conference of the American College of Neuropsychopharmacology in 2001, Arango reported that the brains of people who were depressed and died by suicide contained fewer neurons in the orbital prefrontal cortex, a patch of brain just above each eye. What is more, in suicide brains, that area had one third the number of presynaptic serotonin transporters that control brains had but roughly 30 percent more postsynaptic serotonin receptors.

Together the results suggest that the brains of suicides are trying to make the most of every molecule of serotonin they have, by increasing the molecular equipment for sensing the neurotransmitter while decreasing the number of transporters that absorb it back again. "We believe there is a deficiency in the serotonergic system in people who commit suicide," Arango concludes. "They can be so sick Prozac can't help them." Inhibiting the reuptake of serotonin isn't always enough to prevent suicide: it wasn't for my mother, who died despite taking 40 milligrams of Prozac a day.

Mann and his colleagues are now trying to devise a positron emission tomography (PET) test that might one day aid doctors in determining which among their depressed patients have the most skewed serotonin circuitry--and are therefore at highest risk of suicide. PET scans mirror brain activity by monitoring which brain regions consume the most blood glucose; administering drugs, such as fenfluramine, that cause the release of serotonin can help scientists zero in on active brain areas using serotonin.

In the January Archives of General Psychiatry, Mann and his co-workers reported a relation between activity in the prefrontal cortex of people who had attempted suicide and the potential deadliness of the attempt. Those who had used the most dangerous means--for example, by taking the most pills or jumping from the highest point--had the least serotonin-based activity in the prefrontal cortex. "The more lethal the suicide attempt, the bigger the abnormality," Mann observes.

Ghanshyam N. Pandey of the University of Illinois agrees that the brain's serotonin system is key to understanding suicide. "There is a lot of evidence to suggest serotonin defects in suicide, but these defects do not exist in isolation but in concert with other deficits," he says. "The whole system appears to be altered."

The serotonin hypothesis does not rule out important contributions by other neurotransmitters, however. Serotonin is only one molecule in the intricate biochemical network named the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, in which the hypothalamus and pituitary glands in the brain communicate with the adrenal glands atop the kidneys. The HPA is responsible for the so-called fight-or-flight response exemplified by the racing heartbeat and sweaty palms you get after a close scrape while driving, say. In particular, corticotrophin-releasing factor, which the hypothalamus releases in times of stress, causes the anterior pituitary to make adrenocorticotropic hormone, which in turn causes the adrenal cortex to produce glucocorticoids such as cortisol. Cortisol prepares the body for stress by raising blood sugar concentrations, increasing heart rate and inhibiting the overreaction of the immune response.


Serotonin fits into the HPA because it modulates the threshold of stimulation. Researchers such as Charles B. Nemeroff of the Emory University School of Medicine and his colleagues are finding that extremely adverse early life experiences, such as child abuse, can throw the HPA axis off kilter, literally leaving biochemical imprints on the brain that make it vulnerable to depression as a result of overreacting to stress later on.

In 1995 Pandey's group reported indications that the abnormalities in serotonin circuitry present in those at risk for suicide could be detectable using a relatively simple blood test. When he and his co-workers compared the number of serotonin receptors on platelets (clotting cells) in the blood of suicidal people with those of nonsuicidal people, they observed that individuals considering suicide had many more serotonin receptors. (Platelets just happen to have receptors for serotonin, although it is unclear why.)

Pandey says that his group concluded that the boost in receptors reflects a similar increase in the suicide-prone brains--a vain attempt to garner as much serotonin as possible. To prove the link, Pandey would like to determine whether the association holds up in people who go on to take their own lives. "We want to know if platelets can be used as markers for identifying suicidal patients," Pandey says. "We are making progress, but it's slow."

A Curse of Generations
Until researchers can develop tests to forecast those at highest risk for suicide, doctors might concentrate their efforts on the biological relatives of suicide victims. In the September 2002 issue of Archives of General Psychiatry, Mann, David A. Brent of the Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic in Pittsburgh and their colleagues reported that the offspring of suicide attempters have six times the risk of people whose parents never attempted suicide. The link appears in part to be genetic, but efforts to pin down a predisposing gene or genes have not yet yielded any easy answers. In studies in the early 1990s Alec Roy of the Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center in East Orange, N.J., observed that 13 percent of the identical twins of people who died by suicide also eventually took their own lives, whereas only 0.7 percent of fraternal twins traveled the same path as their suicidal siblings.

http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=0006AF90-5BC7-1E1B-8B3B809EC588EEDF



If anyone wants to know anything about depression/suicide I am more than willing to answer their questions. I am seriously considering volunteering as a Suicide Prevention Counsellor, (given the appropriate training of course).
 
i once read somewhere that we lose a lot of the smart people in this world because they look around and realize the horror of the world we live in.....and decide suicide is better than being here.

that said, I will never do it, as someone who should be very close to me killed themselves.
 
Rex said:
I have nothing worth living for except the desire to get something worth living for. In the morning I ask God for me to either die, or come across something that makes me love life. Every night I go to sleep with the exact opposite.

You know it's going to take more than praying to get what you need.

Like medicine.
 
I saw someone commit suicide. They took a swan dive off of the 12th floor of a building. It was pretty damn stupid. He did it in front of his friends who were trying to talk him out of it (while the police below laughed at him). There are cases where it may be logical to end incurable suffering. However, this guy's problems could no doubt be solved.
 
if your life is truly yours then why can't you make the decision to end it? not saying it's the wrong answer or the right answer i am just playing devil's advocate.
 
A new day is like a reboot on a computer. What are you going to do with your new day? Relive the previous one, or make changes for the one you're in?

Suicide has many different faces. In America it's a crime to commit suicide or facilitate another's suicide, even if that person is terminal and suffering. On the other hand, we're considered barbarian if we don't put down animals who are suffering.

In the end it's the choice of the individual who's life it is. Their choice may be percieved as selfish or righteous depending on the context of the suicide. As a living person are you going to call someone selfish who is suffering terribly from the ravages of systemic cancer? Who's selfish in this case?

Yes, and those who hold certain religions to heart will say that life belongs to God. Well, when God steps in and keeps someone from comitting suicide, then I'll agree. We all die, it's just a matter of when and how.
 
Most people who commit suicide don't want to die.

They only want to end their pain.

The majority of suicide victims can't reason their way out of suicide as a normal, rational person can. They think suicide is the only option. Don't compare the way they are thinking to yourself.

Their brains are physically different than a normal functioning brain.

Choice, for the most part, is taken away.

Depression leading to suicidal tendencies is an illness.

This being said, almost 90% of suicidal patients respond to treatment, yet, less than 50% of suicidal people RECEIVE treatment.

*I agree with condoning suicide under certain conditions. ie: a terminal/painful illness*
 
ChefWide said:
CRRRRRRRAAAAAAAP.

The measure of your life is how you face adversity and not 'I just got fired, boo hoo' adversity, I mean ADVERSITY: Jail, cancer, loss of limb, loss of love.

Terminal illness changes that game. As does impending death: sepuku has huge honor.

You can pull the plug and think nothing of family, it is your life to live or waste, until someone calls you Daddy.
You KNOW I love you Chefy!! Well said!! Life is NOT supposed to be easy... if it was, then we wouldn't be here, we'd be in "heaven"...but we're not. We're here & life has it's ups & downs & we are here to learn how to deal with whatever life brings us. Life is truly a gift - you should NEVER take for granted!
 
Suicide is such a cop out to me! It seems to be such a COWARDLY thing to do...you can't take the heat in life so you have to end it?! We ALL have problems...the point is how you learn to deal with them. Jesus died for us...if He wanted, I'm sure He could've ended it himself or got away...but there was a point to his death. & people are going to sit there & take what He did for granted?! How self-centered can you be?!
 
Rex said:
I have nothing worth living for except the desire to get something worth living for. In the morning I ask God for me to either die, or come across something that makes me love life. Every night I go to sleep with the exact opposite.

I have no intentions of killing myself though. Just doesn't seem worth it to me. Can't explain what goes through the minds of the ones who do. I'd rather die doing something considered so stupid that the gov't will give me a MOH.
Doll, if you knew God, then you would love life...I sincerely hope you do... :qt:
 
MissJanet79 said:
Suicide is such a cop out to me! It seems to be such a COWARDLY thing to do...you can't take the heat in life so you have to end it?! We ALL have problems...the point is how you learn to deal with them. Jesus died for us...if He wanted, I'm sure He could've ended it himself or got away...but there was a point to his death. & people are going to sit there & take what He did for granted?! How self-centered can you be?!

hmmm so he knew he was gonna die... but yet he did nothing about it... he commited suicide in a sense himself then.

tell ya what next time a martyr position comes open you apply for it.
 
also let's take God out of the equation here... then would it be wrong or right? is there a clear cut answer to this? atheists have just as much of a chance to be right as do people with faith.
 
saint808 said:
hmmm so he knew he was gonna die... but yet he did nothing about it... he commited suicide in a sense himself then.

tell ya what next time a martyr position comes open you apply for it.
evidently you don't read the bible... he knew he was going to be betrayed by Judas...he knew that Peter would deny him 3 times...he told them this beforehand & they couldn't believe it. He even asked God "why have you forsaken me?"...he knew it was God's plan & He did what he had to do.
 
MissJanet79 said:
evidently you don't read the bible... he knew he was going to be betrayed by Judas...he knew that Peter would deny him 3 times...he told them this beforehand & they couldn't believe it. He even asked God "why have you forsaken me?"...he knew it was God's plan & He did what he had to do.

i don't want to get into a religious argument here... but what if it is god's plan for me to commit suicide and write a brilliant and heartfelt suicide note so that it would prevent others from doing the same thing?

seriously adding god into the eqution is silly because often tells people to kill prosititutes and such... ever work in a mental hospital? god tells lots of crazy people things that he doesn't tell me.
 
MissJanet79 said:
Suicide is such a cop out to me! It seems to be such a COWARDLY thing to do...you can't take the heat in life so you have to end it?! We ALL have problems...the point is how you learn to deal with them. Jesus died for us...if He wanted, I'm sure He could've ended it himself or got away...but there was a point to his death. & people are going to sit there & take what He did for granted?! How self-centered can you be?!

I want to hear about this at the point you're incapacitated and living in constant mind numbing pain. It's easy to cast stones of aspersion at others when your life is good, you're healthy, and your body and mind are not racked with pain and suffering. Take the time and go visit a terminal cancer ward. It's an eye opening experience.

I watched my father die as a result of systemic failure from stage 4 cancer. I sat there and fed him the morphine myself as I watched the pain wrack his unconscious body, and I watched and comforted a family who was there as well. It's a horrible way to die.
 
strongsmartsexy said:
I want to hear about this at the point you're incapacitated and living in constant mind numbing pain. It's easy to cast stones of aspersion at others when your life is good, you're healthy, and your body and mind are not racked with pain and suffering. Take the time and go visit a terminal cancer ward. It's an eye opening experience.

I watched my father die as a result of systemic failure from stage 4 cancer. I sat there and fed him the morphine myself as I watched the pain wrack his unconscious body, and I watched and comforted a family who was there as well. It's a horrible way to die.
First of all, I did not refer to living with pain...that is really up to the person. I too have seen my grandfather die of cancer & it was something horrible. I was simply referring to people who have problems (debt, failure in relationships etc.) who choose to kill themselves 'cause they "don't see a way out"...that's a cop out!
 
MissJanet79 said:
Suicide is such a cop out to me! It seems to be such a COWARDLY thing to do...you can't take the heat in life so you have to end it?! We ALL have problems...the point is how you learn to deal with them. Jesus died for us...if He wanted, I'm sure He could've ended it himself or got away...but there was a point to his death. & people are going to sit there & take what He did for granted?! How self-centered can you be?!


You have absolutely NO CLUE what the heck you are talking about.

Do yourself, and others, a favor, and do a little research before you spout off ignorant tripe such as this. Attitudes such as yours do more harm than good. How about helping others rather than judging them?

http://www.afsp.org/index-1.htm *virtually anything you want to know about suicide can be found here*

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/chapter3/sec5.html

http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=0006AF90-5BC7-1E1B-8B3B809EC588EEDF

http://www.allaboutdepression.com/cau_01.html

http://www.have-a-heart.com/suicide.html
 
Faith is what it is! It's the having HOPE that what you believe in, is true. I have my own beliefs as does others. But at least I believe.
 
MissJanet79 said:
Faith is what it is! It's the having HOPE that what you believe in, is true. I have my own beliefs as does others. But at least I believe.

I sincerely hope you're able to live with this all the days of your life.
 
it's a survival mechanism....fight or flight....you can only fight your mind for so long before you have to get away from yourself...........or so i've read.

the author said it is like being in an overwhelming situation....you don't care what any one else thinks....you just want out of the situation.
 
MissJanet79 said:
Faith is what it is! It's the having HOPE that what you believe in, is true. I have my own beliefs as does others. But at least I believe.


But that is the interesting dichotomy.

On one hand you have hope that your belief that we have a purpose and that God cares about us is true.

Then you go and state things like "Jesus died for us" as a fact.

I believe that there is a big difference in what one hopes to be true and what is certainly a fact.
 
collegiateLifter said:
But that is the interesting dichotomy.

On one hand you have hope that your belief that we have a purpose and that God cares about us is true.

Then you go and state things like "Jesus died for us" as a fact.

I believe that there is a big difference in what one hopes to be true and what is certainly a fact.
Faith is to have hope....
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs

Doesn't matter if you don't...as long as I am firm in what I believe in. And it's perfectly okay...I love ya anyway! ;) :qt:
 
Isn't it interesting that those blindly following religion are the first to chastise others who don't conform to their ideologies/ethics/morals. Yet, most often, their statements come based on a lack of understanding of the subject at hand.

Close-mindedness at it's best.
 
Last edited:
GoldenDelicious said:
the longer i live, and burn my way through time, the more i think that people who commit suicide sometimes do the right thing

im starting to have a lot of respect for, and empathise with, people who end their lives to preserve their dignity, and live life, and death, according to their own terms

i know that a lot of people are going to say 'what about the family' but you know what, a mans life is his own, and he should live it the way he wants it, or not at all. this applies to young people as well, not just the old and infirm.

being a slave to your own inadequacies and living life on your knees is far worse than a young death, in my opinion

just a thought


i agree with your logic... but my life is far too important to waste on trivial ideas (like money, or women)

ill die for my cause .... but no one eleses

BO-DEN
 
The only way I would commit suicide was if I was going to prison for anything more than 3yrs. I really don't think I could handle it.
 
Lumberg said:
You know it's going to take more than praying to get what you need.

Like medicine.

Never been a big fan of prescription medication and I refuse to take a drug to make think the world is warm and fuzzy.

I accepted the fact that I will die, and made my peace with it. I don't intentionally go looking for ways to get myself killed. I just don't care if I do b/c I'll go when I'll go. The world will go on. The sun will rise, and set. Every morning I get up wondering which it'll be.
 
MissJanet79 said:
First of all, I did not refer to living with pain...that is really up to the person. I too have seen my grandfather die of cancer & it was something horrible. I was simply referring to people who have problems (debt, failure in relationships etc.) who choose to kill themselves 'cause they "don't see a way out"...that's a cop out!
Really? It didn't seem like that to me. Do you even know what you are arguing? Perhaps you are copping out. :artist:

Regardless of the external cause, suicide could be an internal decision effectively superceding the principles of weak/strong or right/wrong. It is a normal idea that one's external actions are correlated with the internal. I want to live my life and I feel that I am progressing. I guess that if I was not progressing, I would either want an escape or a solution. An escape would be drugs and other diversions. A solution might be suicide.

Therefore, it is not always correct to say that suicide is a "cop out" or weak. While it is true that suicide is effectively avoidance, the ultimate purpose of suicide may not always be such avoidance.

If I killed myself, it might be a cop out. But I am not going to kill myself. When I hear of someone committing suicide, I reallize that it probably took quite a bit of relative courage to take such an action. This is independent of my ultimate judgement. People don't generally just willy-nilly kill themselves. It takes something fierce to get past the instinctive desire to survive and the fear of death.

Making judgements is something we almost all do, but perhaps you should not make blanket statements without understanding that which lies below the external surface.
 
I don't think I would commit suicide.

The reason is that I see drugs and other venues of escape as just as much of a solution to life as is suicide. I don't know what lies beyond death, and I also don't know what lies beyond my perceived limits of perception and feeling. Perhaps drugs would be my first choice of escape, if I chose such a path.
 
Rex said:
Never been a big fan of prescription medication and I refuse to take a drug to make think the world is warm and fuzzy.

I accepted the fact that I will die, and made my peace with it. I don't intentionally go looking for ways to get myself killed. I just don't care if I do b/c I'll go when I'll go. The world will go on. The sun will rise, and set. Every morning I get up wondering which it'll be.

Well I guess that just means less competition for me. :)
 
plornive said:
I don't think I would commit suicide.

The reason is that I see drugs and other venues of escape as just as much of a solution to life as is suicide. I don't know what lies beyond death, and I also don't know what lies beyond my perceived limits of perception and feeling. Perhaps drugs would be my first choice of escape, if I chose such a path.

If you were diabetic would you take insulin?

How about chemotherapy for cancer?

How about anti-biotics for pneumonia?


It is not about escaping at all.

Scientists used to believe that low levels of serotonin were responsible for depression/suicidal tendencies, but research has now shown that this is not exactly true.

Studies on the cadavers of people who have committed suicide show they have many more serotonin receptors than a 'normal' person. Their bodies can't produce enough serotonin to fill the extra receptors. This, in turn, leads to depression. In some cases, it leads to severe depression, which, in most cases, leads to thoughts of suicide.

By taking SSRI drugs, all you are doing is medicating an illness. Nothing more, nothing less.

All this talk of CHOICE is ridiculous. Reality is distorted by the lack of serotonin in the brain, making rational decision making, difficult, if not, impossible. Choice is, in effect, taken away.

I find it interesting that noone blames an alzheimer's (which is a brain disorder) victim for losing their memories, eventually leading to death. Yet, when a severely depressed person commits suicide (due to a brain disorder), they (and their families) are stigmatized by society as being weak, cowardly, etc.

There is a severe lack of understanding of depression/suicide in the the general public, as well as in the medical community which leads to many people suffering needlessly. In some cases, (too many, in fact), leading to death.

The reason I mention depression and suicide together, is that the majority of suicides are committed by severely depressed individuals. Very few 'normal' people commit suicide, except in extreme situations.

Another point to consider is this. Depression is genetic. It is, generally, inherited from one's parents. The same way any gentetic disorder is inherited. Noone chooses to be depressed. The same way noone chooses to have cancer.

*A depressed person CANNOT think their way out of being depressed. It doesn't work like that, anymore than someone with cancer can think themselves out of having cancer. Depression is a PHYSICAL (and, in turn, mental) illness. Treatment is needed in almost 100% of cases*
 
Last edited:
Well this is something I deal with at least 3 times a week. My company cleans up after suicides, homicides and decompositions. Some of the suicides we clean are terminal people who are really tired of the constant suffering and just want to end there life, which I can certainly understand. I'm all for assisted suicide in those situations. It would be a good way for the family to say goodbye without being traumatized by finding a loved one dead in the bathroom with half their head missing. On the other hand we do alot of suicides of middle age fathers and kids. And I can tell you that the family I have to deal with usually 3 hours after the act is totally destroyed. These people do not realize what their families are going to have to deal with forever. So all I have to say is before you do it think about your family.
 
crimecleaner said:
And I can tell you that the family I have to deal with usually 3 hours after the act is totally destroyed. These people do not realize what their families are going to have to deal with forever. So all I have to say is before you do it think about your family.

I would only kill myself if I had nothing left to live for. Family is something to live for...
 
crimecleaner said:
Well this is something I deal with at least 3 times a week. My company cleans up after suicides, homicides and decompositions. Some of the suicides we clean are terminal people who are really tired of the constant suffering and just want to end there life, which I can certainly understand. I'm all for assisted suicide in those situations. It would be a good way for the family to say goodbye without being traumatized by finding a loved one dead in the bathroom with half their head missing. On the other hand we do alot of suicides of middle age fathers and kids. And I can tell you that the family I have to deal with usually 3 hours after the act is totally destroyed. These people do not realize what their families are going to have to deal with forever. So all I have to say is before you do it think about your family.


Children, whose parents killed themselves are up to 6 times more likely to complete the act themselves. In my case, I am, supposedly, 5 times more likely to 'off' myself now, than before my g/f killed herself.

Multiple (not simultaneous) suicides happen fairly often in families.

I personally know of several thanks to the newfound community of which I am a part.

Committing suicide only transfers the pain of the suicidal individual to that of the familiy members, who never recover from the loss. The guilt, anger, frustration, despair, sadness is overwhelming.

I, personally, am dealing with this much better than most. I have seen a few people die themselves as a result of mental trauma due to the suicide of a loved one.

Another good friend, a counsellor himself, is under 24 hour surveillance at a mental health facility due to said trauma. His breakdown was so severe he cannot eat or sleep and his short term memory has become greatly impaired.

I have heard some incredibly horrible stories over the last few months from other SOS (survivors of suicide). It's sickening.
 
c-sharp minor said:
If you were diabetic would you take insulin?

How about chemotherapy for cancer?

How about anti-biotics for pneumonia?


It is not about escaping at all.

Scientists used to believe that low levels of serotonin were responsible for depression/suicidal tendencies, but research has now shown that this is not exactly true.

Studies on the cadavers of people who have committed suicide show they have many more serotonin receptors than a 'normal' person. Their bodies can't produce enough serotonin to fill the extra receptors. This, in turn, leads to depression. In some cases, it leads to severe depression, which, in most cases, leads to thoughts of suicide.

By taking SSRI drugs, all you are doing is medicating an illness. Nothing more, nothing less.

All this talk of CHOICE is ridiculous. Reality is distorted by the lack of serotonin in the brain, making rational decision making, difficult, if not, impossible. Choice is, in effect, taken away.

I find it interesting that noone blames an alzheimer's (which is a brain disorder) victim for losing their memories, eventually leading to death. Yet, when a severely depressed person commits suicide (due to a brain disorder), they (and their families) are stigmatized by society as being weak, cowardly, etc.

There is a severe lack of understanding of depression/suicide in the the general public, as well as in the medical community which leads to many people suffering needlessly. In some cases, (too many, in fact), leading to death.

The reason I mention depression and suicide together, is that the majority of suicides are committed by severely depressed individuals. Very few 'normal' people commit suicide, except in extreme situations.

Another point to consider is this. Depression is genetic. It is, generally, inherited from one's parents. The same way any gentetic disorder is inherited. Noone chooses to be depressed. The same way noone chooses to have cancer.

*A depressed person CANNOT think their way out of being depressed. It doesn't work like that, anymore than someone with cancer can think themselves out of having cancer. Depression is a PHYSICAL (and, in turn, mental) illness. Treatment is needed in almost 100% of cases*

Not too many people have accepted this idea yet but when they do i think mental illness will be much less of a problem than it is now because people will seek valid treatments and not be stigmitized. But i dont think its just limited to serotonin, serotonin is just a factor in depression. Other neurochemicals play a role like dopamine.

I had severe, suicidal depression in dec/jan due to stress and lack of options, but some research on depression and a few OTC drugs brought me out of it within a month. had i tried to 'think positive until i felt better' route i'm sure i wouldn't be dead but id be in a much worse place mentally than i am now.

I also agree that suicidal people dont want to die, they just want to stop suffering and have no other route.
 
nordstrom said:
Not too many people have accepted this idea yet but when they do i think mental illness will be much less of a problem than it is now because people will seek valid treatments and not be stigmitized. But i dont think its just limited to serotonin, serotonin is just a factor in depression. Other neurochemicals play a role like dopamine.

I had severe, suicidal depression in dec/jan due to stress and lack of options, but some research on depression and a few OTC drugs brought me out of it within a month. had i tried to 'think positive until i felt better' route i'm sure i wouldn't be dead but id be in a much worse place mentally than i am now.

I also agree that suicidal people dont want to die, they just want to stop suffering and have no other route.

Actually, you're right Nordstrom. There are other factor's invovled.

Childhood trauma is also greatly suspected of having a large influence on the human psyche, among other things.

BTW. Did you know that some anti-dpressants actually CAUSE suicidal thoughts in depressed individuals? Some people I know are researching this in depth.

Oh well, off to work out I go. I love pain. :supercool
 
c-sharp minor said:
BTW. Did you know that some anti-dpressants actually CAUSE suicidal thoughts in depressed individuals? Some people I know are researching this in depth.

Oh well, off to work out I go. I love pain. :supercool

Yeah, ive heard about that but im not sure if its the drugs causing it or if the people are just suicidal to begin with. However, when i used to try 5htp for appetite (its also an antidepressant) for the first week i would be seriously, deeply depressed, so i stay away from 5htp.
 
nordstrom said:
Yeah, ive heard about that but im not sure if its the drugs causing it or if the people are just suicidal to begin with. However, when i used to try 5htp for appetite (its also an antidepressant) for the first week i would be seriously, deeply depressed, so i stay away from 5htp.
Smart move. :)
 
Childhood trauma and post traumatic syndrom could be a culprit to suicide due to the fact that a body stops (adaptive mechanism) producing adequate amount of glucocorticoids (underproduction), which reduces a person's ability to deal with stress quite drastically.
And yes, some re-uptake inhibitors have been implicated in increase in suicidal 'activity', but not because they aggravated depression - rather the opposite, a relapse into a manic state, characterized by increased aggression, impetuousness (impulsiveness), etc..
 
juve said:
Childhood trauma and post traumatic syndrom could be a culprit to suicide due to the fact that a body stops (adaptive mechanism) producing adequate amount of glucocorticoids (underproduction), which reduces a person's ability to deal with stress quite drastically.
And yes, some re-uptake inhibitors have been implicated in increase in suicidal 'activity', but not because they aggravated depression - rather the opposite, a relapse into a manic state, characterized by increased aggression, impetuousness (impulsiveness), etc..


are related to MACROPHAGE69ALPHA? ;)
 
WolfPack Charlie said:
Here's a thought, a person should grab some balls, get off their knees, and make the world a slave to him (or her).....after all, a mans life IS HIS OWN.....is it not.

I believe God has a plan for each and every one of us. But I don't think suicide was part of the equation.
 
onebigab said:
I believe God has a plan for each and every one of us. But I don't think suicide was part of the equation.

Then I think God should be kind enough to TELL them that. I hate it when someone has a plan, doesn't communicate it and then bitches when it's not followed.
 
strongsmartsexy said:
Then I think God should be kind enough to TELL them that. I hate it when someone has a plan, doesn't communicate it and then bitches when it's not followed.


I agree. ;)
 
nordstrom said:
I had severe, suicidal depression in dec/jan due to stress and lack of options, but some research on depression and a few OTC drugs brought me out of it within a month. had i tried to 'think positive until i felt better' route i'm sure i wouldn't be dead but id be in a much worse place mentally than i am now.

have you ever tried Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? it pretty much involves changing your negative thoughts in to positive ones...... it seems to be the best treatment for anxiety/depression.......alongside medication
 
c-sharp minor said:
If you were diabetic would you take insulin?

How about chemotherapy for cancer?

How about anti-biotics for pneumonia?


It is not about escaping at all.

Scientists used to believe that low levels of serotonin were responsible for depression/suicidal tendencies, but research has now shown that this is not exactly true.

Studies on the cadavers of people who have committed suicide show they have many more serotonin receptors than a 'normal' person. Their bodies can't produce enough serotonin to fill the extra receptors. This, in turn, leads to depression. In some cases, it leads to severe depression, which, in most cases, leads to thoughts of suicide.

By taking SSRI drugs, all you are doing is medicating an illness. Nothing more, nothing less.

All this talk of CHOICE is ridiculous. Reality is distorted by the lack of serotonin in the brain, making rational decision making, difficult, if not, impossible. Choice is, in effect, taken away.

I find it interesting that noone blames an alzheimer's (which is a brain disorder) victim for losing their memories, eventually leading to death. Yet, when a severely depressed person commits suicide (due to a brain disorder), they (and their families) are stigmatized by society as being weak, cowardly, etc.

There is a severe lack of understanding of depression/suicide in the the general public, as well as in the medical community which leads to many people suffering needlessly. In some cases, (too many, in fact), leading to death.

The reason I mention depression and suicide together, is that the majority of suicides are committed by severely depressed individuals. Very few 'normal' people commit suicide, except in extreme situations.

Another point to consider is this. Depression is genetic. It is, generally, inherited from one's parents. The same way any gentetic disorder is inherited. Noone chooses to be depressed. The same way noone chooses to have cancer.

*A depressed person CANNOT think their way out of being depressed. It doesn't work like that, anymore than someone with cancer can think themselves out of having cancer. Depression is a PHYSICAL (and, in turn, mental) illness. Treatment is needed in almost 100% of cases*
Yes, it is about 'escape'. I used it to mean evading some problem, leaving this world, avoiding some pain, etc.

I think you have a real point. One that people should consider more closely.

My point was that suicide is not what everyone chooses as his/her solution.

Even if I was hopelessly depressed, drugs would come before suicide. Part of me dies every day. I don't know what happens after death, but I also don't know what happens the next day.
 
OMEGA said:
are related to MACROPHAGE69ALPHA? ;)

No :)

I read it a while back in NYTimes they had an article about Post Traumatic Syndrom in children, veterans, soldiers, catastrophe survivors and its implication on their physiological processes.
 
Lumberg said:
Well I guess that just means less competition for me. :)

For you, perhaps. For whatever/whoever tries to end my life though, a lot of competition. ;) The man to fear, is the man who has nothing to lose.
 
Rex said:
For you, perhaps. For whatever/whoever tries to end my life though, a lot of competition. ;) The man to fear, is the man who has nothing to lose.

I mean competition for success in the world. Let's say you and I are competing for the same job. I will have more energy to devote to excelling at my tasks because I have chamically enhanced my mind.
 
We spend our whole lives trying to stop death. Eating, sleeping, inventing, fighting, even killing. But what do we know about death? Just that no one comes back.

There comes a time, a point, a moment in life, when your mind out lives it’s desires, its obsessions and habits…….maybe death is a gift!
 
There are people, who are never happy. They never feel good about the day and their life and themselves. They feel ugly and useless. And well, they usually are.

Yet they just keep on living. they just sit there in their house, hardly come out, and they just keep going. but for who? Not for me. not for themselves....

I think many depressed people, are like a dying horse in the desert, desperately waiting for that strong cowboy, to just aim his pistol and end them.
If nobody else will, I'm willing to be this man.

So do I enjoy that?

Yes.
 
Well from my point of view, it sucks.I agree, suicide isnt a cowardly way out...but you know? It is a selfish act and it hurts the ones around you. My uncle killed himself a little over 3 weeks ago and the family has went thru the ideas that maybe someone did it, because Scott would have NEVER committed suicide. My mother has even talked to the sheriff of our county and he said that is what alot of families do when somethng like this happen. They cant believe that their brother/sister /daughter/son would ever do that. He left 2 boys when he did it. They will never see him grow old. He will never see his grandkids, he wont see them graduate highschool. He will miss all this because he was selfish and couldnt take the pressure of life...
Suicide sucks, and it hurts everyone around you and they always ask themselves, is there something that i could have done? Fact is, no there isnt. People that commit suicide are selfish.
 
SoKlueles said:
Well from my point of view, it sucks.I agree, suicide isnt a cowardly way out...but you know? It is a selfish act and it hurts the ones around you. My uncle killed himself a little over 3 weeks ago and the family has went thru the ideas that maybe someone did it, because Scott would have NEVER committed suicide. My mother has even talked to the sheriff of our county and he said that is what alot of families do when somethng like this happen. They cant believe that their brother/sister /daughter/son would ever do that. He left 2 boys when he did it. They will never see him grow old. He will never see his grandkids, he wont see them graduate highschool. He will miss all this because he was selfish and couldnt take the pressure of life...
Suicide sucks, and it hurts everyone around you and they always ask themselves, is there something that i could have done? Fact is, no there isnt. People that commit suicide are selfish.


No.

People who commit suicide( the majority,at least) are mentally ill, not selfish.

In some cases, their deluded minds actually believe they are doing their loved ones a favor.

The lack of understanding of mental illness is frightening. It is, in part, the reason many die without receiving treatment.
 
Last edited:
Your right, because my uncle, if he had been in his right mind, would not have done that. He loved his kids and of course he would have NEVER done it so that his 15 year old son would have walked in on him....he was under some heavy pressure....he would have not done that to himself or his family if he had been in his right mind.
 
Robert Jan said:
There are people, who are never happy. They never feel good about the day and their life and themselves. They feel ugly and useless. And well, they usually are.

Yet they just keep on living. they just sit there in their house, hardly come out, and they just keep going. but for who? Not for me. not for themselves....

I think many depressed people, are like a dying horse in the desert, desperately waiting for that strong cowboy, to just aim his pistol and end them.
If nobody else will, I'm willing to be this man.

So do I enjoy that?

Yes.


Possibly the most useless, unthoughtful post ever at EF..good job.... :rolleyes:
 
SoKlueles said:
Your right, because my uncle, if he had been in his right mind, would not have done that. He loved his kids and of course he would have NEVER done it so that his 15 year old son would have walked in on him....he was under some heavy pressure....he would have not done that to himself or his family if he had been in his right mind.

I've been forced to learn what I can about mental illness throughout the past 7 years due to my g/f's depression/suicidal tendencies.

Truth be told. When she had previously attempted suicide. I, in my naievte, believed every attempt was no more than an attention getting ploy.

Turns out, I was wrong.

This little situation has made me seek even more information regarding the suicidal mind.

Again, I have acquired more knowledge on this subject than some medical professionals I have come into contact with, and even some grief counsellors.

A word of advice Soklueless: Depression/suicidal tendencies tends to be genetic, and therefore your Uncle's mental illness could have been passed onto his children. The rate of suicides among survivors of suicide is quite high, relatively speaking. I would seriously recommend counselling. At the very least.
 
Last edited:
Spend the day at the Children's section of the Oncology department.


Look at the little faces that hope for the life that they will not receive while you contemplate walking away from yours.
 
velvett said:
Spend the day at the Children's section of the Oncology department.


Look at the little faces that hope for the life that they will not receive while you contemplate walking away from yours.


It doesn't exactly work like that.


You CAN'T will yourself well.


No more than you can will yourself well from Alzheimer's, Cancer, AIDS, etc......


If someone feels depressed for long periods of time or has suicidal thoughts, seek treatment from the medical community.

It's likely possible that the sight of sick children would only increase despair and hopelessness.
 
It would be interesting to line up the various "sides" on this issue and then align their life experiences to see what correllations exist. I know that my ideas on suicide, the death penalty and abortion changed drastically over time as I encountered different life altering situations that caused me to rethink my positions.
 
Depression can be devastating to family relationships, friendships, and the ability to work or go to school. Many people still believe that the emotional symptoms caused by depression are "not real," and that a person should be able to shake off the symptoms. Because of these inaccurate beliefs, people with depression either may not recognize that they have a treatable disorder or may be discouraged from seeking or staying on treatment due to feelings of shame and stigma. Too often, untreated or inadequately treated depression is associated with suicide. 5

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/invisible.cfm
 
Robert Jan said:
There are people, who are never happy. They never feel good about the day and their life and themselves. They feel ugly and useless. And well, they usually are.

Yet they just keep on living. they just sit there in their house, hardly come out, and they just keep going. but for who? Not for me. not for themselves....

I think many depressed people, are like a dying horse in the desert, desperately waiting for that strong cowboy, to just aim his pistol and end them.
If nobody else will, I'm willing to be this man.

So do I enjoy that?

Yes.


You must be a tremendous asset to your community, if you weren't such an imbecile :o

more or less selfish than the people who wish to hold them to a life that they do not want, merely to stave off their own grief?

laconic but precise - great observation/statement!
 
juve said:
You must be a tremendous asset to your community, if you weren't such an imbecile :o

more or less selfish than the people who wish to hold them to a life that they do not want, merely to stave off their own grief?

laconic but precise - great observation/statement!

It's not that they don't want life. They want to end their pain in the only way they can think of, due to their distorted view ofreality. Saying they do not want life is, in general, incorrect.

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens
when pain exceeds
resources for coping with pain.”

When pain exceeds pain-coping resources, suicidal feelings are the result. Suicide is neither wrong nor right; it is not a defect of character; it is morally neutral. It is simply an imbalance of pain versus coping resources

I wonder if someone would call small children selfish for wanting their parent to live? I am sure they have absolutely no concept of what grief even is. Not that most adults do either, to most, it is only a word.
 
c-sharp minor said:
I wonder if someone would call small children selfish for wanting their parent to live? I am sure they have absolutely no concept of what grief even is. Not that most adults do either, to most, it is only a word.

Not until they've had the life experience that touches them personally.
 
c-sharp minor said:
It doesn't exactly work like that.


You CAN'T will yourself well.


No more than you can will yourself well from Alzheimer's, Cancer, AIDS, etc......


If someone feels depressed for long periods of time or has suicidal thoughts, seek treatment from the medical community.

It's likely possible that the sight of sick children would only increase despair and hopelessness.


My response was in response to this post:

GoldenDelicious said:
the longer i live, and burn my way through time, the more i think that people who commit suicide sometimes do the right thing

im starting to have a lot of respect for, and empathise with, people who end their lives to preserve their dignity, and live life, and death, according to their own terms

i know that a lot of people are going to say 'what about the family' but you know what, a mans life is his own, and he should live it the way he wants it, or not at all. this applies to young people as well, not just the old and infirm.

being a slave to your own inadequacies and living life on your knees is far worse than a young death, in my opinion

just a thought


You are talking about someone that suffers from clinical depression not someone obsessed with their shortcomings or someone going through a rough phase of their life.

Depression can be treated - oddly enough many people that suffer from depression don't want their treatment (meds) or choose not to seek it.

You don't just snap out of cancer either.


I'm not disagreeing with you - I just think we both have valid points in different areas.
 
Top Bottom