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A New Approach To PCT?

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
I've been investigating a few alternatives to traditional PCT -- nothing that I'm convinced is superior. Right now it's in the theoretical stage. But I think it's important to explore other possibilities that may have been overlooked.

Remember just a few years ago when the thinking was along the lines that "You can't overdo anti estrogens?" Dumb, yes. But it was thought of a "the responsible thing to do." If we've learned anything from the years of study and research and experimentation is that what is sometimes thought of as "certain" isn't so certain. And you guarantee results simply but taking another pill.


As for PCT, there's been a trend towards using Hc G during a cycle. It makes sense but I have some issues with it, the main one being that the body builds up a tolerance to HcG rather quickly so why waste it if you're just going to continue suppressing yourself? Still, getting the boys up and running and not left dormant for too long may not be such a bad idea.

That leads me to investigating another option. What would happen if we did "mini PCT's " within the cycle? In other words, once the body becomes suppressed, we bring it back up even though it'll continue to get the in influx of additional hormones. In some ways this may work BETTER. Here's why.

Once the body returns to normal hormone production, it'll essentially be USED to the higher concentration of T in the system. In theory, maintaining a high exogenous input of T won't seem so suppressive because it's already regained natural production with a high concentration present.

If you think about it, using an anti aromatase is basically preventing the inevitable and allowing the body to function more "balanced" while on. If Clomid works for you, why wait until the cycle is over and the body has to fight harder to come back. I'm no fan of Clomid but it may actually be more effective while on than off, especially when using Hc G. Why not use UNLEASHED to lower SHBG WHILE ON the cycle? It'll increase gains and to a drgree prevent aromatization. Why not use MyogenX WITH Hcg since Hc G simulates LH while MyogenX STIMULATES it. Hell, maybe even Tribulus might be good during a cycle since its mild LH elevating effect is essentially useless when supressed. Maybe while on, it'll actually do something. In fact, everything we do AFTER a cycle, can be done in doses (maybe for a week at a time) DURING the cycle. This in itself may cushion the crash and prevent shut down -- providing dosage and duration aren't ridiculous.

I'm surprised this approach isn't more commonplace. It just goes to show how we follow familiar patterns and trends. But trends change.

Just something else to think about. Or talk about. Input is welcome.
 
With this theory what dosages of HCG and for how long for this mini-pct in a 12 week cycle for example.

Let say:

1-4 Dbol 40mg ed
1-12 Sus 750mg ew
1-10 Deca 400mg ew
 
The main goals of a cycle are
1. to keep gains coming
2. To be able to come of and keep as many gains as you can
3. to keep sides down
This deff can be explored in theory and it practice to see if it in fact can reach these gaols. The problem is people see what works for others and they tend to stick with it. Experimenting is all fine and dandy when some one else is doing it lol. Not many people
want to step out and do it to there own body. If they do they do it in small steps. Sticking to almost the ame thing but trying 1 or 2 things different.
 
8and20 said:
With this theory what dosages of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - and for how long for this mini-PCT - post cycle therapy - in a 12 week cycle for example.

Let say:

1-4 Dianabol - methandrostenolone - 40mg ed
1-12 Sus 750mg ew
1-10 Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - 400mg ew

It's all guesswork at this point but instead of doing small, ineffective dosages of HcG every few days I think it'll be more effective to do a single 1500 iu blast once every 3 weeks. I'd use "POST-CYCLE" during the cycle for no other reason other than the liver protectants since you're using dball. 1/2 of dosinex once a week along wouldn't hurt either.
 
Guesswork is right!!


Nelson Montana said:
It's all guesswork at this point but instead of doing small, ineffective dosages of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - every few days I think it'll be more effective to do a single 1500 iu blast once every 3 weeks. I'd use "POST-CYCLE" during the cycle for no other reason other than the liver protectants since you're using dball. 1/2 of dosinex once a week along wouldn't hurt either.
 
Hey, everything is guesswork to a degree. Pc T isn't exactly an exact science. And everything gets tweeked over the years. I don't think this method would be harmful and worth a try at least once.
 
I would consider trying it whenever I decide to cycle again... however, if I do try it and my body gets all out of wack.... I want one thing from you Nelson....

Pounds and Pounds of Cookies n Cream Big Blast!!!
 
Nelson Montana said:
It's all guesswork at this point but instead of doing small, ineffective dosages of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - every few days I think it'll be more effective to do a single 1500 iu blast once every 3 weeks. I'd use "POST-CYCLE" during the cycle for no other reason other than the liver protectants since you're using dball. 1/2 of dosinex once a week along wouldn't hurt either.

Why do you feel that smaller dosages (less than the 1500iu you've suggested) are "ineffective" throughout the cycle? It's been documented that a minimal dosage of 250iu raises test levels substantially... I can't verify though how true that is while the body's natural test production is suppressed by large quantities of exogenous test. By running small dosages of H C G throughout the cycle (essentially an "ongoing P C T"), you decrease your chances of desensitizing the H P T A... and any contribution H C G has towards increasing estrogen levels is taken care of by the A I one shoudl be taking during cycle anyway?

Just thinking out loud here.... I'm no expert, and I know there's not definitive answers in this area (yet).
 
its not somthing that i havnt thought about my self in the past. I know a few bro's who do the 1 pc.t mid corse and 1 at the end and love it.
 
njmuscleguy said:
Why do you feel that smaller dosages (less than the 1500iu you've suggested) are "ineffective" throughout the cycle? It's been documented that a minimal dosage of 250iu raises test levels substantially... I can't verify though how true that is while the body's natural test production is suppressed by large quantities of exogenous test. By running small dosages of H C G throughout the cycle (essentially an "ongoing P C T"), you decrease your chances of desensitizing the H P T A... and any contribution H C G has towards increasing estrogen levels is taken care of by the A I one shoudl be taking during cycle anyway?

Just thinking out loud here.... I'm no expert, and I know there's not definitive answers in this area (yet).

I was one of the first proponents of lower dosages of HcG. In the past, everyone (all the experts) were going with dosages prescribed for female fertilization). However, from personal experience, in regard to testicular volume, I've found that dosages under 500 i.us's didn't "kick in" for me. But at 1000...BOOM, the boys were back in town in no time.
 
I agree with this theory Nelson but how long what dose etc is all guessing. If a guy was to get a tiny bit of gyno happening and used Nolva, anti-e or other PCT during his cycle would that person have an easier recovery once off because of the anti gyno treatment? That may give us some small answer.
 
rudy76 said:
I agree with this theory Nelson but how long what dose etc is all guessing. If a guy was to get a tiny bit of gynecomastia happening and used Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - , anti-e or other PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - during his cycle would that person have an easier recovery once off because of the anti gynecomastia treatment? That may give us some small answer.

Not sure what you're asking. Do you mean will the Nolvaa during help after? Well, I don't think Nolva is very helpful with recovery one way or the other but that may be another issue altogether. However, it's not unusual to use dexx during a cycle and that may stave off suppression to a degree since aromatization is one of the culprits in suppressing the HP.TA.

Essentially, we all do versions of this anyway. So if something works, why wait to use it?

Keep in mind, almost all PCT is based on the findings of Dan Duchaine but as smart as he was, he was wrong as often as he was right. And there is no legitimate medical protocol for recovery from anabolic use.
 
Nelson Montana said:
I've been investigating a few alternatives to traditional PCT - post cycle therapy - -- nothing that I'm convinced is superior. Right now it's in the theoretical stage. But I think it's important to explore other possibilities that may have been overlooked.

Remember just a few years ago when the thinking was along the lines that "You can't overdo anti estrogens?" Dumb, yes. But it was thought of a "the responsible thing to do." If we've learned anything from the years of study and research and experimentation is that what is sometimes thought of as "certain" isn't so certain. And you guarantee results simply but taking another pill.


As for PCT, there's been a trend towards using Hc G during a cycle. It makes sense but I have some issues with it, the main one being that the body builds up a tolerance to HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - rather quickly so why waste it if you're just going to continue suppressing yourself? Still, getting the boys up and running and not left dormant for too long may not be such a bad idea.

That leads me to investigating another option. What would happen if we did "mini PCT's " within the cycle? In other words, once the body becomes suppressed, we bring it back up even though it'll continue to get the in influx of additional hormones. In some ways this may work BETTER. Here's why.

Once the body returns to normal hormone production, it'll essentially be USED to the higher concentration of T in the system. In theory, maintaining a high exogenous input of T won't seem so suppressive because it's already regained natural production with a high concentration present.

If you think about it, using an anti aromatase is basically preventing the inevitable and allowing the body to function more "balanced" while on. If Clomid works for you, why wait until the cycle is over and the body has to fight harder to come back. I'm no fan of Clomid but it may actually be more effective while on than off, especially when using Hc G. Why not use UNLEASHED to lower sex hormone binding globulin WHILE ON the cycle? It'll increase gains and to a drgree prevent aromatization. Why not use MyogenX WITH Hcg since Hc G simulates lh - leutenizing hormone - while MyogenX STIMULATES it. Hell, maybe even Tribulus might be good during a cycle since its mild LH elevating effect is essentially useless when supressed. Maybe while on, it'll actually do something. In fact, everything we do AFTER a cycle, can be done in doses (maybe for a week at a time) DURING the cycle. This in itself may cushion the crash and prevent shut down -- providing dosage and duration aren't ridiculous.

I'm surprised this approach isn't more commonplace. It just goes to show how we follow familiar patterns and trends. But trends change.

Just something else to think about. Or talk about. Input is welcome.

very interesting idea--i will volunteer to try it on my next cycle ---i sort of did a half-assed one when a got hurt mid-cyle a few years ago---maybe in my head but i swear my overall gains were better and easily kept.
 
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