A dose of reality from a pro.

[Nelson Montana]

DOGGCRAPP: I'll address your last point first.

You keep talking about putting you down, but I don't even know who you are. I've never made myself out to be a "all knowing god of muscle." Don't project and don't put words in my mouth. I'm a writer. I have a point of view that a lot of people can relate to and from which a lot of people have benefited. You have your way. I have mine.

I too have no problem with someone choosing a different body type than mine. But there comes a time where health is an issue. 300 pounds isn't healthy no matter how ripped you are.

As far as Jason goes...well, I don't know what he's telling you, but what I told you is the deal bro. Why would Jason ask me to write for him if he didnt like my work? I wrote about 5 articles for AE. One was a training piece which he said was one of the best workouts he's ever done. Another was a piece on proper injecting. Another was a plan to put on 10 pounds in 2 weeks. I don't know where your "Buddy Training articles " fantasy came form but it wasn't there. And incidentally, since I left AE, they haven't exactly had groundbreaking articles -- a lot of Q&A and supplement adicles. Jasons cool, but I do believe his budget is limited. People put down the muscle magazines but irrespective of some of the content, you have to know how to WRITE to get published. Try t sometime. Anyone can write on the internet.

To say that strength has NOTHING to do with muscle isn't entirely accurate. My point is, someone can be muscular and not particularly strong and vice versa. We see it all the time -- guys with no muscle coming to the gym for the frst time and they throw 3 plates on each side of the bar ad knock out reps. Strength is, TO A GREAT DEGREE, a matter of tendon inserton, bone density and technque. Don't tell me you don't know this! Of course adding muscle will help. I never said otherwise.

Maybe you have something to offer. But it sounds like you're the one who's calling what I do absolute bullshit yet I've helped hundreds of people improve in their bodybuilding goals. So we can agree to disagree on some topics, but again-- get the facts straight and don't make false accusations. That's all I ask. And I'll try to do the same.

 

[panerai]

Doggcrap, your position is based only on your personal belief, and is not supported by anything else. If you read Minto study, that alone should be enough for you to understand that you are wrong. There are plenty of other studies, as well, as comon sense that suggest theory of cruising doesn't make sense.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Panerai the minto studies showed how quickly the HPTA axis impairs when an exog compound is taken--but there was nothing in there proving that no feedback signals happen if arimidex, nolvadex, hcg, or clomid where used. If you can show me a study where low dose test 50mg EOD was used and rendered clomid arimidex nolvadex and HCG completely inert--Ill be the first to credit you (there is no such study so like some other theories in bodybuilding such as insulin usage I have to go with theory and what has worked in people Ive helped). As the numbers are adding up into the hundreds now and people are not going up and down like YO YO's with extreme muscle mass losses--Im going to stick with my method. If someone comes forward with a better method that promotes huge size gains with little HPTA impairment--Ill be the first to look into it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Okay Dogcrap, now I will dispute you on this issue. No petty bickering . Just the facts.

When you say that once exogenous T enters the body, it no longer produces endo T so it doesn't matter if you take 300mgs or 3000mgs. I believe that's wrong, and this is why.

1...People who take smaller dosages for shorter periods recover faster. (excluding any post treatment) If shutdown were complete in both cases, supression would be the same.

2...Although any amount of exo T will supress, it isn't a total shutdown. That's why a guy can still impregnate a woman while on HRT.

3...Unless the testicles have completely atrophied, they're working to a degree. People on 300mgs a week don't experience much testicular atrophy, if any.

4...You claim no YO YO effect, but I see it all the time. Guys who juice heavy and then come off lose most o their gains. Guys who do a few low dose short cycles a year keep their gains even when natural.

5...The peripheral contraindications of steroids become more apparent as dosages are raised. Again, HRT doses pose little health risk (and many health benefits -- that's my gig). Whereas, it's undeniable that once dosages go over 1000mgs a week, blood pressure rises, hemocrat levels top off, the testes disappear, liver enzymes become compromised, and PSA levels are a major concern.

I agree with paneral -- you're basing your opinions on what you want to believe. And I don't say that to be antagonistic. I feel you're sincere. It works for you. But the information is off base. And unlike a difference of opinion on so many other topics, this is not a game and the wrong advise can prove disasterous, as it has so many times before.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Nelson Montana::When you say that once exogenous T enters the body, it no longer produces endo T so it doesn't matter if you take 300mgs or 3000mgs. I believe that's wrong, and this is why.

Doggcrapp:: I said that? Nelson I think that was a direct quote from Panerai not me

Panerai::As soon as feedback mechanism tells your body that it doesn't need to produce testosteron anymore the process of athrophy triggered, and it doesn't matter for your body how much testosteron you inject, 300mg/week or 3000mg/week

 

[Ulter]

I was staying out of this but...

Nelson

1. the reason people who take smaller amount for shorter periods recover faster is because they have less test to clear. It has nothing to do with the dosage affecting the HPTA. Because the dosage DOESN'T affect its recovery.

2. A guy can impregnate a women at any dose. Not just HRT levels.

3 Nope, I know many of Dr Scruggs patients, like me, who have had plenty of shrinkage at 300mg.

4. Sure if they are clueless about recovery. Mr Nobody (powerlifter) is over 300 lbs at 6'5" and stays within 12% all the time. He started at 150 and an anorexic. He has done cycles that would make your hair stand up and still kept most his gains coming off for most the year. He's just one guy but there are hundreds just like him posting this stuff all time. Not here much anymore though, I must admit. You run in a small guys circle that's all.

 

[panerai]

Doggcrapp, I see that you like the idea that Clomid, Nolvadex and Arimidex will do something to keep HPTA from complete suppression. Well, those are just selective estrogen antagonists or aromatise inhibitors, and there's no magic effect of them on HPTA, besides blocking estrogen receptor, or not letting aromatisation to happen.
HCG is very effective for testicles, but will not do anything to HPTA, well, will add to suppression somewhat, actually.
So, the bottom line is, as long as your body knows, because of negative feedback that it doesn't have to produce testosteron, it will not change its mind, because of any anti-estrogens or aromatise inhibitors, those effect on HPTA is VERY indirect and works only when test levels are low, again, because of the negative feedback.
People have hard time to recover after high doses not because they use high doses, but because of long esters, obviously, it will take much longer to recover from 3g of Sustanon, then from 250mg of it. But, it's not important, the length of the use is MUCH more important, and you seems to neglect it, with your wrong theory.

 

[panerai]

People have hard time to recover after high doses not because they use high doses, but because of long esters, obviously, it will take much longer to recover from 3g of Sustanon, then from 250mg of it. But, it's not important, the length of the use is MUCH more important, and you seems to neglect it, with your wrong theory.

Actually, Ulter said it better in his point 1.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Dogcrap: I stand corrected. With all the back and forth I lost track of who said what. So we agree? Holy fuck.

utter. Point 1. Six of one/half dozen of the other.

2. True. (Funny how they used to think T replacement can be a contraceptive) But someone who takes higher dosages non stop has a greater chance of being near sterile.

3. If guys are shrinking at 300mgs it's most probably because of all the severe cycles they've done prior. Besides HRT shouldn't need to be over 200mgs a week.

4. It isn't so much that I run in small guy circles but more that I deal with people who have real lives and realistic goals. Of course, you NEVER have to go off -- or you can do the psuedo "off" thing which includes slin, GH, bromo, low dose test and d-bol in the morning. : ) You can also do massive dosages non stop. You'll be big alright. But not everyone is willing to devote their lives to aquiring a multitude of drugs 24/7 365 days a year. And as hard as it may be to believe, most guys wouldn't want to be 300 pounds.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Dr.Equinstein]

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