A big problem I have with this statement..

[psychedout]

.. from those who advocate low volume high frequency.

This is a common line "After the first set all you do is burn calories".

Basically, your first set is the only one to stimulation muscle growth.

Whole concept seems absurd to me. You might as well say. "I'm only doing 5 reps today even though i'm capable of ten."

Basically where do you draw the line??

Now, we are all intelligent people, and we all know the law of dimishing returns applies. But I am a believer, that an optimal way is nowhere near 1 set.

Now to await the controversy.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I knew Lindsay Lohan...she lived next door to my g/f...

 

[psychedout]

Are you for real??????

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Sorry wait, just confirmed - lives next door to her cousin (or used to) and met Lindsay before. She was a total bitch. Attitude problem.

 

[psychedout]

Sorry wait, just confirmed - lives next door to her cousin (or used to) and met Lindsay before. She was a total bitch. Attitude problem.

May be time to recall the Hilary avatar.

Anyways. Whats your 2 cents on where you draw the line? Despite many of my attitudes conflicting with yours, you have good grammar, and some solid backing to your persepective. So lets here it.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Hah, I knew my proper grammar wouldn't go unnoticed.

Anyway, I think a middle-ground is always the best place to "draw the line", no? After all, one set can and will work but doesn't seem sufficient enough, and any more than three sets seems a bit much.

For ancillary exercises, I'd use 2x8, take the last set just shy of failure, and if you exceed twelve reps on the final set, bump up the weight (so you have a solid guideline on when to increase).

As for the major movements, anywhere between 3-5 sets has always seemed to work, and I do agree that experience has its place in what works, and what doesn't. I guess it depends on what you want - size or strength. I'd use more sets with less reps to go for strength.

I guess it's possible some people need more sets because they've become accustomed to such high volume (WalkingBeast), where others are just getting into the game and can use one or two sets to grow (Debaser - starting out with DC training and putting on a claimed 40 lbs. of muscle or so in his first year).

 

[jwwpua]

Unfortunately, there is no "perfect" amount of volume. As we've all heard before, every person is different.

The best answer is to do the most volume you can without overtaxing your CNS. As long as you are refreshed for your next workout (whenever that may be), doing more volume will provide a greater stimulus for the muscle to grow.

Also, I do realize the diminishing returns, but I'm pretty confident that most people will reach the point of overtaxing their CNS before they will reach significant diminishing returns.

There was a study on mechanical overload that showed that a muscle under 8 hours of load gets 50% of all hypertrophy within the first 30 minutes. None of us ever work 1 muscle for 30 minutes under load because our strength fails long before this is possible. This is the reason I don't think you will reach significant diminishing returns before overtaxing your CNS.

Despite all of this, many people can achieve good gains with minimal volume.

 

[Dave949]

As for the major movements, anywhere between 3-5 sets has always seemed to work, and I do agree that experience has its place in what works, and what doesn't.

I totally agree with this statement and this (3-5 sets for the big daddy lifts) is what has "instinctively" worked for me and what I have been and currently practice. But thats me. One mans meat, anothers poison.

 

[casualbb]

That "more than one set only burns calories" line is some bs the hit people use to justify their program.

Doing one set isn't as good as 2, which isn't as good as 5, etc. with diminishing returns the higher you go. The fact is, more volume is better -- provided you can maintain it. There's the kicker, it's how much can you personally do.

This is one of those things where every individual really is different... people have different work capacities and it takes an experienced lifter to the perfect balance between volume and fatigue. I only found mine recently after 2 years of serious lifting.

 

[Dave949]

This is one of those things where every individual really is different... people have different work capacities and it takes an experienced lifter to the perfect balance between volume and fatigue.

Absolutely..........I couldn`t agree more.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I agree with casualbb comments. I too after 10 years of off and on training and just getting back into lifting again have started to really figure out what I can cope with and waht is optimal for me.

Biggest advice I can give to a total newb lifter is LISTEN to your body. How do you feel training certain ways while doing it? How do you feel after? Experiment.

 

[guldukat]

Anyway, I think a middle-ground is always the best place to "draw the line", no? After all, one set can and will work but doesn't seem sufficient enough, and any more than three sets seems a bit much.

Tom,

Sorry to nitpick a good post--I'm following a definitive pattern tonight --but I noticed that you mention an interest in logic in another thread. (I'm too lazy to hit the back button to find the topic; hopefully, you know what I'm talking about .)

Apropos, you might enjoy considering the bold text in the context of a Golden Mean.

This is more for general reference and fun than it is a specific criticism of your conclusion which, so long as the premises check out, is fine.