7 year old goes for a joy ride!

[Lestat]

 

[jnevin]

He should have ghost rode that mofo.

 

[timtim]

never ceases to amaze me the level of stupidity that some ethnicities stoop to.

"i wanted to do hood rat stuff with my friend".

it will be funny when grandma is dropping large amounts of cash to pay for all the damages.

 

[Lestat]

this is a 7 year old that things its fun to do "bad things"

should give people something to think about...

 

[needtogetarmy]

I think it is ok. Just because different ethnicities want to do something doesn't mean it is bad. We are a multicultural society and we need to be responsive to their needs and more open minded. There is too much hate in this world.

 

[Lestat]

I think it is ok. Just because different ethnicities want to do something doesn't mean it is bad. We are a multicultural society and we need to be responsive to their needs and more open minded. There is too much hate in this world.

I don't think this has anything to do with ethnicity, I think you can find equally silly behavior in almost any ethnic group.

This isn't about being responsive to needs and allowing cultural freedom, this is about undesirable, destructive, and harmful behavior and what leads to it.

 

[Kano]

pretty good driving for a seven year old just saying

 

[Bikini Mod]

Straight up if that 7 y/o was one of my sister's boys she would have whooped their behinds ON TV, because if she didn't the neighbor certainly would have for busting up their car.

Just ONE of the reasons why my sister left the United States... to make sure that her children would be raised properly without interference from a ridiculous government that doesn't give a fat rat's ass about our old people OR our children.

Can you imagine that grandmother being afraid to "whoop her grandson's behind?" Dollars to donuts if this story hadn't gained national attention that child would have had his legs broken by his own family for the level of stupidity. Why? Today it is joyriding in Grandma's car and tomorrow it would be doing driveby's.

 

[the_alcatraz]

never ceases to amaze me the level of stupidity that some ethnicities stoop to.

"i wanted to do hood rat stuff with my friend".

it will be funny when grandma is dropping large amounts of cash to pay for all the damages.

Are you saying black kids drive better than white kids?

 

[needtogetarmy]

Are you saying black kids drive better than white kids?

If it was a white kid he would have been driving a Volvo.

 

[Kano]

If it was a white kid he would have been driving a Volvo.

so true

 

[needtogetarmy]

Look, kids in the inner city have a lot of energy. They are stuck in white-centric schools that ignore their rich heritage and this results in a little rebellion every now and then. This young innocent child is simply the product of a racist society that has closed the doors of opportunity. I see nothing wrong with a little joy ride. Let him enjoy his freedom.

The grandmother is totally out of line for wanting to hit the child. Hitting only results in more violence. Is that what we want to teach him? Spanking children is old-fashioned and should never be tolerated. We live in a modern society - not the 1800's.

 

[Kano]

fuck me i just remembered i am out of ambien

 

[swole]

Look, kids in the inner city have a lot of energy. They are stuck in white-centric schools that ignore their rich heritage and this results in a little rebellion every now and then. This young innocent child is simply the product of a racist society that has closed the doors of opportunity. I see nothing wrong with a little joy ride. Let him enjoy his freedom.

The grandmother is totally out of line for wanting to hit the child. Hitting only results in more violence. Is that what we want to teach him? Spanking children is old-fashioned and should never be tolerated. We live in a modern society - not the 1800's.

Hey! I had a lot of energy as a kid too! I guess all those days playing football in a friend's backyard or riding my bike or shooting hoops should have been days spent taking cars for joyrides. Oh man did I have a cute little rebellious side!!

And when I got caught risking not only my life but other young and full of energy, innocent children's lives, I should only be punished by not being able to play video games because I was just enjoying my freedom. I wouldn't even expect people to be mad if I killed someone's mom as she was walking to her car in a parking lot because I'm just a product of a racist society that has closed the doors of opportunity.

For the record I'm glad my mother slapped the shit out of me when I messed up really badly. Maybe children should be raised by adults who exhibit higher levels of character and capability. Then again it IS a modern society and these days nobody really accepts responsibility.

That kid has definitely had his fair share of opportunities at the dinner table, no denying that. I bet he's fat because he's bored too.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Look, kids in the inner city have a lot of energy. They are stuck in white-centric schools that ignore their rich heritage and this results in a little rebellion every now and then. This young innocent child is simply the product of a racist society that has closed the doors of opportunity. I see nothing wrong with a little joy ride. Let him enjoy his freedom.

The grandmother is totally out of line for wanting to hit the child. Hitting only results in more violence. Is that what we want to teach him? Spanking children is old-fashioned and should never be tolerated. We live in a modern society - not the 1800's.

So you are saying that this boy committed this UNBELIEVABLY crazy act that HE KNEW WAS WRONG.... "BECAUSE IT WAS FUN TO DO HOOD RAT STUFF".... BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK?

You have got to be kidding me.

So, if he had killed someone (which he very well could have) would your post be equally non-chalant?

As I said, my sister left this country to maked DAMNED SURE that she could raise her children properly.

I couldn't believe those cops...

"Do you realize that what you did was wrong and that your grandmother will have to pay for the damage you did to those cars?"

WTF?

That kid could have killed someone.... EASILY.

Sad story... I think the mother should have her ass whooped.

 

[needtogetarmy]

So you are saying that this boy committed this UNBELIEVABLY crazy act that HE KNEW WAS WRONG.... "BECAUSE IT WAS FUN TO DO HOOD RAT STUFF".... BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK?

You have got to be kidding me.

I am looooooooolllooo

 

[SaladFork]

I think it is ok. Just because different ethnicities want to do something doesn't mean it is bad. We are a multicultural society and we need to be responsive to their needs and more open minded. There is too much hate in this world.

+1

 

[Bikini Mod]

I am looooooooolllooo

You fukkin with my head homie?!

You crazy bastard!!

Seriously, someone needs to whoop the mother's ass. The kid is seven for fuck's sake. Where in the world did he get the idea that possibly killing people was punishable by "no video games for a weekend".... my mother would have put me through a window for cussing a neighbor at that age, forget stealing a car and joyriding through the freaking streets.

Then what my father would have done to me would have made me WISH my mother killed me.... and they were 100% justified for every single ass-whooping they gave me.

(Did I just type that out loud?!)

Good thing they are in another state 'cause I am thinkin they would smack me for old time's sake!

 

[RottenWillow]

This just reaffirms my support of William H. Cosby, Jr. as an independent nominee for president of the United States of America.

Bill will fix all these crazy ass, amoral, disrespectful young negros.

 

[Bikini Mod]

This just reaffirms my support of William H. Cosby, Jr. as an independent nominee for president of the United States of America.

Bill will fix all these crazy ass, amoral, disrespectful young negros.

What about the crazy ass, amoral, disrespectful young white and latino kids?

RACIST...

 

[RottenWillow]

What about the crazy ass, amoral, disrespectful young white and latino kids?

RACIST...

Someone hasn't heard Bill's speech (rant) regarding younger generations of blacks.

 

[Lestat]

Look, kids in the inner city have a lot of energy. They are stuck in white-centric schools that ignore their rich heritage and this results in a little rebellion every now and then. This young innocent child is simply the product of a racist society that has closed the doors of opportunity. I see nothing wrong with a little joy ride. Let him enjoy his freedom.

The grandmother is totally out of line for wanting to hit the child. Hitting only results in more violence. Is that what we want to teach him? Spanking children is old-fashioned and should never be tolerated. We live in a modern society - not the 1800's.

Agree with you about the spanking, we're not animals, we don't have to use physical violence against our young to prove a point.

I don't think this kid stealing the car is a race issue though. You mentioned him going to school and being ignored, his heritage, etc. This kid has no idea what his heritage is, like most kids his age in this country! His behavior is derived or learned from seeing that type of behavior. I'd guess an older brother/sister, cousin, father, mother, who knows, even grandma may have instilled some of this reactionary behavior in the child.

Did you notice, the grandmother was upset with her grandson for what he did and the money it cost her and immediately wanted to act out violently and irrationally towards a 7 year old child. Now think about what the child was doing, he was upset at his mom and decided to go for a little joy ride and cause destruction.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Someone hasn't heard Bill's speech (rant) regarding younger generations of blacks.

I make it a point to avoid political discussions at all costs as I find them to be pointless and boring.

(I do hear you about Cosby though, he is one funny fuck. I was juth buthtin your chops mami csulo)

 

[Bikini Mod]

Agree with you about the spanking, we're not animals, we don't have to use physical violence against our young to prove a point.

I don't think this kid stealing the car is a race issue though. You mentioned him going to school and being ignored, his heritage, etc. This kid has no idea what his heritage is, like most kids his age in this country! His behavior is derived or learned from seeing that type of behavior. I'd guess an older brother/sister, cousin, father, mother, who knows, even grandma may have instilled some of this reactionary behavior in the child.

Did you notice, the grandmother was upset with her grandson for what he did and the money it cost her and immediately wanted to act out violently and irrationally towards a 7 year old child. Now think about what the child was doing, he was upset at his mom and decided to go for a little joy ride and cause destruction.

So I guess the weekend without video games would have properly conveyed the gravity of the crime he committed and the potential harm?

 

[needtogetarmy]

You fukkin with my head homie?!

You crazy bastard!!

Seriously, someone needs to whoop the mother's ass. The kid is seven for fuck's sake. Where in the world did he get the idea that possibly killing people was punishable by "no video games for a weekend".... my mother would have put me through a window for cussing a neighbor at that age, forget stealing a car and joyriding through the freaking streets.

Then what my father would have done to me would have made me WISH my mother killed me.... and they were 100% justified for every single ass-whooping they gave me.

(Did I just type that out loud?!)

Good thing they are in another state 'cause I am thinkin they would smack me for old time's sake!

I you!

I tend to bring out the best in people

My parents would have whipped me too.

The funny thing is I got Lestat to agree that spanking is bad lol

Our country is falling apart because people don't correct their children. That young kid is doomed because there is no discipline in his life. Nothing is going to change that. Very sad.

Maybe Bill Cosby can give him some pudding.

 

[RottenWillow]

I you!

I tend to bring out the best in people

My parents would have whipped me too.

The funny thing is I got Lestat to agree that spanking is bad lol

Our country is falling apart because people don't correct their children. That young kid is doomed because there is no discipline in his life. Nothing is going to change that. Very sad.

Maybe Bill Cosby can give him some pudding.

pudding my ass. First Bill would slap the taste out of that little lardo's ass. Then have him doing chores 8 hours a day for 6 months.

 

[needtogetarmy]

Someone hasn't heard Bill's speech (rant) regarding younger generations of blacks.

I did but it was hard to understand him with all that puddin' in his mouf.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I you!

I tend to bring out the best in people

My parents would have whipped me too.

The funny thing is I got Lestat to agree that spanking is bad lol

Our country is falling apart because people don't correct their children. That young kid is doomed because there is no discipline in his life. Nothing is going to change that. Very sad.

Maybe Bill Cosby can give him some pudding.

You mean a weekend with no videogames isn't punishment enough for a kid who nearly killed people and ADMITTED HE KNEW IT WAS WRONG?

Shit, that little shit didn't even express ANY remorse.

LeStat... what you think would have been an adequate punishment then? Seriously....

 

[ceo]

He should have his ass beat. Then, he should be doing all kinds of extra work around the house fitting for his age, and advancing into other "jobs" as he gets older (mowing lawns in the hood, paper route, whatever), all to help pay off the debt. He'll be working for free for a long time to pay that off. Oh, and no more video games for-ever. Games and consoles should all be sold on ebay to help payoff debt. No special priveleges of any kind. Any he has should be taken away. This kid should basically be on house arrest with work release.

 

[heatherrae]

If it was a white kid he would have been driving a Volvo.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHA

 

[heatherrae]

This story makes me want to slap his mom and dad. Imagine what they must be like. There is probably no hope for that kid at this point -- lost cause.

 

[NEO1]

Damn, gma has dubs!

 

[jerseyrugger76]

If it was a white kid he would have been driving a Volvo.

Are you saying there's something wrong with driving a Volvo?

 

[Lestat]

So I guess the weekend without video games would have properly conveyed the gravity of the crime he committed and the potential harm?

No, not by a long shot.

 

[Bikini Mod]

No, not by a long shot.

OK, what say you then?

It is easy to say, "THAT is not acceptable" (when talking about discipline and punishment - which are NOT one in the same necessarily) but those words don't carry all that much weight when you can offer no alternatives.

Don't bring me problems.

Bring me solutions.

 

[Lestat]

OK, what say you then?

It is easy to say, "THAT is not acceptable" (when talking about discipline and punishment - which are NOT one in the same necessarily) but those words don't carry all that much weight when you can offer no alternatives.

Don't bring me problems.

Bring me solutions.

There is a whole range of punishments available. You are a mother, you would know more than I. I am simply saying I would not raise a hand to another human being, let alone a child. I am sure someone as smart and experienced as yourself didn't opt to inflict pain on your child at the first opportunity.

 

[ceo]

I am simply saying I would not raise a hand to another human being...

Unless they're mexicans at a car wash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@

 

[needtogetarmy]

I would soak the kid in water, tie him down, get a sponge attached to an electrical outlet, and start electro shock therapy. The experience will stimulate nerve endings he never knew existed and he will learn a lesson.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I know what I would do, VERY TRUE. However, I also know that behavior like this didn't "just happen" overnight. In other words, it isn't like the kid is a good kid who just wasn't thinking. This child is on his way to hardcore crime. He showed NO REMORSE WHATSOEVER for the fact that he could have easily killed people. A seven year old DOES understand the concept of death. That once someone is dead - they DONT come back to life. This is not about money, though that is just "insult to injury".

So we are talking about an EXTREME case that would require EXTREME measures to rectify the situation and put this child back on track.

None of my children would EVER think to do such a thing while they were being parented by ME. However, I do have four children that through no fault of my own have been trapped in HELL. So you had better believe that I am fully aware that at least ONE may be just like that. Only worse, they are much older and past the point where a parent can exert little if any control over them. So now - I am pretty much fucked.

I will get back to you in a few months time. Fair enough?

But that was not the point of my question.

All I was doing was pointing out to someone who does NOT have a child that it is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy to say, "This type of punishment or that is too harsh or unacceptable" when they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

I am completely against violence and wouldn't raise my hand to another human being either... unless it was warranted.

And yes, I DO believe that there are circumstances when corporal punishment is not only warranted by actually desirable.

You are entitled to your opinion but until you have raised ONE CHILD to adulthood without EVER having to put a hand on that child, your opinion really doesn't hold much weight.

Interestingly enough my Old Grump is completely ANTI-spanking. But he has 4 children of his own. Two that are mothers themselves. So again, perhaps it was by the grace of divine intervention that he was brought into my life as I will most likely need his input many, many, many times as I will have four very angry incredibly fucked up kids that I will have to find a way to parent properly and since they have already spent the last two years being verbally, emotionally and some sexually abused I don't think that opening a can of whoop-ass will do a damned bit of good.

 

[needtogetarmy]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to BIKINIMOM again.

 

[jnevin]

That kid needs the shit slapped out of him and to be grounded until he's thin.

 

[Lestat]

That kid needs the shit slapped out of him and to be grounded until he's thin.

lolol

Agree to the second part, a very long grounding/restriction is in order. Community service, etc.

Bikinimom, we'll just have to disagree. You can't make a case for me where its warranted to hit a 7 year old and you won't be changing my mind.

I am going to use an extreme example, but I could never make a case to you where it warranted to rape a 7 year old girl right? I don't care what the circumstances are, its never gonna happen. I view striking a child as something very serious as well.

 

[Bikini Mod]

lolol

Agree to the second part, a very long grounding/restriction is in order. Community service, etc.

Bikinimom, we'll just have to disagree. You can't make a case for me where its warranted to hit a 7 year old and you won't be changing my mind.

I am going to use an extreme example, but I could never make a case to you where it warranted to rape a 7 year old girl right? I don't care what the circumstances are, its never gonna happen. I view striking a child as something very serious as well.

We can agree to disagree but again your thinking is flawed.

Sorry but you can't equate rape to corporal punishment. The very notion is ridiculous at best and offensive at worst.

I would never tell you how to discipline your child, that is once you've had one. Till then you have NO VOICE here, that is, not until you have successfully raised a single child to be a productive happy member of society without ever once laying a hand on that child to correct it for negative behavior. Once you have accomplished that (not saying that it isn't possible because I do believe that with some children IT IS possible) THEN your opinion will be valid. Till then, all you are doing is bringing me A PROBLEM. I already have those.

BRING ME A SOLUTION <--- THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING.

 

[jnevin]

lolol

Agree to the second part, a very long grounding/restriction is in order. Community service, etc.

Bikinimom, we'll just have to disagree. You can't make a case for me where its warranted to hit a 7 year old and you won't be changing my mind.

I am going to use an extreme example, but I could never make a case to you where it warranted to rape a 7 year old girl right? I don't care what the circumstances are, its never gonna happen. I view striking a child as something very serious as well.

A swat and a beating are miles apart.

 

[Lestat]

We can agree to disagree but again your thinking is flawed.

Sorry but you can't equate rape to corporal punishment. The very notion is ridiculous at best and offensive at worst.

I would never tell you how to discipline your child, that is once you've had one. Till then you have NO VOICE here, that is, not until you have successfully raised a single child to be a productive happy member of society without ever once laying a hand on that child to correct it for negative behavior. Once you have accomplished that (not saying that it isn't possible because I do believe that with some children IT IS possible) THEN your opinion will be valid. Till then, all you are doing is bringing me A PROBLEM. I already have those.

BRING ME A SOLUTION <--- THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING.

Sorry, but as respectfully as I can be, your thinking is flawed and offensive.

First off, I don't have to bring you a solution in order to tell you something is wrong. I don't have a solution for the middle east conflict, but I can tell you that nuking Israel, or Gaza, or Iran, is NOT the solution. Do you see how that works? I don't have a solution, I have some ideas (compromise on all sides) but I can still emphatically tell you what NOT to do without providing you an alternative.

I also do not have to have a child in order have strong feelings about how they are treated. There are some things I feel should not be done to anyone, hitting a child is one of them. I realize that not all agree with me (yet) and that is a frustration I have learned to live with. I realize that as I type this, children are being hit, whether its a swat or a beating, I can only hope its more swatting and less beating, but in my ideal world neither would be happening.

If you are going to force me to give you a solution, I'll give you a few ideas:
restriction
reduction of privledges
forced work (community service)
counseling/anger management

Do you really think that inflicting pain on that 7 year old is going to make a difference? What does that teach him? Don't do it again or else you will feel pain? Cool, it also teaches him that if you want to stop someone for doing a certain behavior, then striking them is an effective way of doing that. Not a lesson I like to see taught because I feel it ads to problems, instead of solving them.

 

[ceo]

I hope Lestat's kids won't walk all over him and make him their bitch.

 

[jnevin]

I hope Lestat's kids won't walk all over him and make him their bitch.

Dayum. That's suck in front of his roomies.

 

[Lestat]

I hope Lestat's kids won't walk all over him and make him their bitch.

I hope so too!

Its a scary thing raising a child (or more) and I do not mean to discount the level of effort invovled. I was a child and saw the frustrations my parents went through, the anger, the tears, the feeling of hopelessness at times. I have seen it in my friends who are parents. Sometimes childen defy their parents blatently. They disrespect them. They will do things to endanger themselves, others, and destroy property. I realize this is all very difficult and a lot easier to talk about a hod and not to easy to deal with as its happening.

I imagine that if/when I have kids, I will have times where my instinct is to swat, spank, etc. and it will be tough not too.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Sorry, but as respectfully as I can be, your thinking is flawed and offensive.

First off, I don't have to bring you a solution in order to tell you something is wrong. I don't have a solution for the middle east conflict, but I can tell you that nuking Israel, or Gaza, or Iran, is NOT the solution. Do you see how that works? I don't have a solution, I have some ideas (compromise on all sides) but I can still emphatically tell you what NOT to do without providing you an alternative.

I also do not have to have a child in order have strong feelings about how they are treated. There are some things I feel should not be done to anyone, hitting a child is one of them. I realize that not all agree with me (yet) and that is a frustration I have learned to live with. I realize that as I type this, children are being hit, whether its a swat or a beating, I can only hope its more swatting and less beating, but in my ideal world neither would be happening.

If you are going to force me to give you a solution, I'll give you a few ideas:
restriction
reduction of privledges
forced work (community service)
counseling/anger management

Do you really think that inflicting pain on that 7 year old is going to make a difference? What does that teach him? Don't do it again or else you will feel pain? Cool, it also teaches him that if you want to stop someone for doing a certain behavior, then striking them is an effective way of doing that. Not a lesson I like to see taught because I feel it ads to problems, instead of solving them.

LOL

Again your inability to understand what parents are talking about is clearly illustrated by your using analogies that are COMPLETELY off the wall.

Disciplining a child does NOT = murder in the middle east

any more than

Disciplining a child = raping one.

What in THE HECK is wrong with you? I mean, you seem like a fairly intelligent adult. What paths did you use to arrive at such analogies?

So it does not surprise me that you are also incapable of bringing me a solution to a problem that we are all painfully aware of as opposed to merely describing the problem.

You speak in generalities - anyone can do that. You could not even identify the fact that this child was well on his way to becoming a hardened criminal for ONE REASON: the fact that age his young age (even though he was well aware of the reality of death) HE FELT ZERO SHAME OR REMORSE for what he had done.

So now you talk about restrictions and community service as a means of punishment?

THE CHILD IS SEVEN. What kind of restrictions will you set upon him that will BEGIN to scratch the surface of being equal to his crime? A child that age is just learning to identify coins and what their value is and how to read and write. WHAT THE HELL KIND OF RESTRICTION CAN YOU PLACE ON A PERSON AT THAT LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT THAT COULD EQUAL THE MAGNITUDE OF HIS CRIME?

Community service?

HE IS SEVEN! The kid is in the first grade for goodness' sakes!

Are you high?

So now, I will repeat myself - although I do concede and am well aware that there are some children that will NEVER require corporal punishment of any sort until you have personally raised one such child to the point of happy, well-adjusted adulthood then sorry, you have NO VOICE here except to state that you can agree to disagree with those of us who have our heads so far BELOW water that we don't even know what straws to grasp at anymore.

 

[Bikini Mod]

You know LeStat, I just realized something. I am attempting to debate a topic with someone that has no clue by virtue of their inexperience.

I am not saying that you aren't a reasonably or even very intelligent adult but this debate serves NO USEFUL PURPOSE.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[ALIN]

bass ass little punk

 

[Lestat]

You know LeStat, I just realized something. I am attempting to debate a topic with someone that has no clue by virtue of their inexperience.

I am not saying that you aren't a reasonably or even very intelligent adult but this debate serves NO USEFUL PURPOSE.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I agree we need to agree to disagree, but I disagree with your assesment that I have to have children to have a voice in the debate. There are many things that I am sure you feel strongly about that you do not have direct experience with. Abortion, the death penalty, owning slaves, the right to bear arms, and freedom of press are all things that I do not have direct experience with as I've never had an abortion, been subject to the death penalty, owned a slave, I do not own a gun, I do not publish a newspaper, HOWEVER this will not stop me from speaking my mind on the subject.

The kid is 7, its difficult to deal with them at that age I am sure, even younger than that they don't have the mental aptitude to comprehend a "restriction" right?

Well, if a dog can be trained not to shit in certain places, and to even walk a tightrope if you were dilligent enough, ALL WITHOUT HITTING IT, then why on earth would we need to inflict pain on a child to shape their behavior?

I know I am probably frustrating you, my thoughts on this changed dramatically in college. I was all for spanking until taking some child psychology, and specifically looking at studies with data, first on rats, that showed when you punished them, they were more likely to show aggression to their peers when put back in with the regular population. Then I learned that there were families with children where they were NEVER spanked, not even once, and these families were not raising degenerate children at all, in fact, it was quite the opposite.

I'd love to run a study, or do a long term data collection on spanking and crime. Do children who are spanked end up committing more crimes in life?

 

[puddlemonkey]

I've noticed most women like spankings. A swift swat, nothing too malicious.

 

[Bikini Mod]

No LeStat, actually you do NOT frustrate me in the least.

My husband has had bones broken by an abusive parent. Yet he has NEVER raised his hand to a child or to a woman. In combat he was trained to kill and quite proficiently. And yet he was able to "leave that in that world" somehow.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the famous Dr Spock (the one who began all of this "Do not teach your children shame for wrong-doing" have his only child commit suicide)?

I may be remembering this 100% WRONG.

All I know is I have not yet met ONE PERSON who was not spanked as a child (not talking broken bones here - that is abuse) that was *normal*. Everyone that I know was physically disciplined as a child and WE ALL THANK OUR PARENTS FOR IT. (The issues I have with my own parents have NOTHING to do with their physical punishment and EVERYTHING to do with THEIR WORDS).

All I am saying is that until someone has lived it and can pass that knowledge onto me (not saying that it ain't out there, just saying that I have not met *that one* just yet) I remain VERY skeptical.

What I am saying is twofold:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And

Discipline/punishment is about so much more than merely swatting a child when one doesn't know "what else to do." Corporal punishment should always be A LAST RESORT. It is also more important (in my opinion) to catch a child doing something GOOD as it may be too late once he is doing something bad, the video being an extreme example.

 

[Lestat]

hi again bikini!

The only children I know that were not spanked also came from wealthy families, one is a Harvard MBA with no criminal record, the other is a pair of siblings, both doing fantastic. I am more interested in a wider range of data. For example, of those who are convicted of assault and battery, what % of them were spanked and what % of them were not?

Or, of a large group of non spanked kids, what % have certain criminal convictions, and how does this % compare to the general population.

If it aint broke, then don't fix it is not a good excuse to not try and better ourselves as people, as society, as a world.

 

[jnevin]

I was spanked when I was little, got beaten daily when my parents got divorced and needed someone to take it out on. I have no record, am successful, and have never hit my dog to punish him, only when we play.

I also own a home, don't have video game parties and blitz the web with pictures of them for approval from strangers.

I wonder if they hit their kids in China or other Socialist states?

 

[Lestat]

I also own a home, don't have video game parties and blitz the web with pictures of them for approval from strangers.

What does this have to do with the discussion? Its a reference to me, but for what purpose I am not sure. Maybe being spanked is what instilled a constant need to lash out at others?

I too was spanked as a child, but unlike you do not take pleasure in insulting others, so it must be something else at work in your psyche.

 

[Bikini Mod]

hi again bikini!

The only children I know that were not spanked also came from wealthy families, one is a Harvard MBA with no criminal record, the other is a pair of siblings, both doing fantastic. I am more interested in a wider range of data. For example, of those who are convicted of assault and battery, what % of them were spanked and what % of them were not?

Or, of a large group of non spanked kids, what % have certain criminal convictions, and how does this % compare to the general population.

If it aint broke, then don't fix it is not a good excuse to not try and better ourselves as people, as society, as a world.

Won't disagree with this last statement.

The only kids that I knew of that weren't spanked were ANIMALS... pure and simple.

I am wondering what % of those that turned out well were given MORE POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT as opposed to negative reinforcement.

If you honestly believe that me or any other parent actually took pleasure in physically discipline our children, you couldn't be more wrong (not saying that this is what you ARE saying).

It is interesting that when I felt forced to physically discipline my oldest child for a SEVERE infraction, NOT ONE counselor, DYFS worker, cop or other *child welfare or mental health professional* parent OR NOT could give me an alternative course of action when I had listed all the approaches I had exhausted until that point in time. All they could say when I asked the question, "If what I did was so wrong, then WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?" The answer that every single one gave?

"I DON'T KNOW."

Interestingly enough, the pediatrician who had known me and my family for over 13 years at the time - not only did he NOT report me (which would have caused him to lose his license if he even THOUGHT that I was doing wrong) but he wrote the court a letter of SUPPORT for my actions AND the child in question STOPPED ALL NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR for which she was physically disciplined.

So here I am begging...

"SHOW ME THE WAY."

So far, I got nothing from anyone that says that physical punishment is BAD... NOTHING.

As I said, it should ALWAYS be last resort and completely over-shadowed by POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT but in extreme cases (as in mine where a child was being encouraged and told to act out and as the child in this U-tube video perhaps) sorry, but until I can be told something more than, "I don't know what you should do" don't condemn me for doing the only thing I know.

 

[jnevin]

What does this have to do with the discussion? Its a reference to me, but for what purpose I am not sure. Maybe being spanked is what instilled a constant need to lash out at others?

I too was spanked as a child, but unlike you do not take pleasure in insulting others, so it must be something else at work in your psyche.

lol

You said there was a link between spanking and deviant behaviour. Not the case with me. Not the case with pretty much every person I grew up with that was spanked when they fucked up. I think the worst any of them have on their record is a DUI. I guess you're a criminal that hasn't been caught since you admit to using illegal drugs on a regular basis. It's just funny to me that you're so condascending and dismissive when you talk about half the things you talk about, but haven't been through a goddamn thing or are in a position to know what plenty of others have gone through because you choose to live the life of a 21 year old at 30.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

being the oldest gnome on here or so. I can say, until you have raised a little fuckling and had to deal with what to do with your child, then STFU. Kinda like the priest trying to explain what an orgasm feels like for a woman.

 

[Lestat]

lol

You said there was a link between spanking and deviant behaviour. Not the case with me. Not the case with pretty much every person I grew up with that was spanked when they fucked up. I think the worst any of them have on their record is a DUI. I guess you're a criminal that hasn't been caught since you admit to using illegal drugs on a regular basis. It's just funny to me that you're so condascending and dismissive when you talk about half the things you talk about, but haven't been through a goddamn thing or are in a position to know what plenty of others have gone through because you choose to live the life of a 21 year old at 30.

I apologize if I do come off as condascending and dismissing, it is not my intention. I have said this a few times on here, its a flaw of mine, I'm not sure if its exasperated because of the medium of communication, but I really do not mean to sound like I am any better than anyone else.

Also, a big distinction I try to draw is this, I attack issues, not people. I attack religion fiercly, but not the people who hold the views, I actually love a lot of very religious people. Same with spanking, I am not going to pass judgement on an individual for the way they choose to disciplin their kid, its complex and there are a many factors (societal, family, etc. involved).

What I find interesting is that you feel the need to attack me personally. I've never understood it, although I've tried to talk to you about it. I don't care how frustrated i may get with someone like bikinimom, I am not going to pass judgement on her as a person, say she is wrong, or anything close to that. I don't see what that adds to the debate, and personally, I try to be a positive force in life, not a negative one.

You on the other hand have no qualms about passing judgement on others it seems, even when that judgement is to serve your own interests and adds nothing to the discussion at hand. Have I wronged you in some way? Have I done the same to you? I don't remember doing so, but if I had I am sure I would apologize for it.

The link between spanking and deviant behavior that I know about was a study done with rats, I said I'd be curious to see statistics on humans on a much grander scale. Why? Because I am curious. Would it change my mind? I am not sure. Lets say that being spanked meant you were some % less likely to become a deviant, does that make it right? I am not in a position to make that call. Public executions may reduce the murder rate (I have no idea, just using this as an example) but it doesn't mean I would push to reinstate that. Just like if the Taliban proved that theft in their country was lower than in the US (I wouldn't be surprised if it is) I wouldn't say that cutting off people's hands for stealing is a good thing.

What do I want to get out of the debate then? Do I want to change Bikinimom's mind? No. (although I would be slightly more happy if I did) I enjoy talking about topics, debating them, especially the controversial ones because people tend to be more passionate about them and you get more involvement in the discussion.

But again, I do not see the need nor the place for the personal attacks.

Again, I apologize for coming off as dismissing and condecending, not just to you, but to everyone in this thread (and I am unfortunately sure that this won't be the last time that I need to offer up such an apology).

 

[jnevin]

I apologize if I do come off as condascending and dismissing, it is not my intention. I have said this a few times on here, its a flaw of mine, I'm not sure if its exasperated because of the medium of communication, but I really do not mean to sound like I am any better than anyone else.

Also, a big distinction I try to draw is this, I attack issues, not people. I attack religion fiercly, but not the people who hold the views, I actually love a lot of very religious people. Same with spanking, I am not going to pass judgement on an individual for the way they choose to disciplin their kid, its complex and there are a many factors (societal, family, etc. involved).

What I find interesting is that you feel the need to attack me personally. I've never understood it, although I've tried to talk to you about it. I don't care how frustrated i may get with someone like bikinimom, I am not going to pass judgement on her as a person, say she is wrong, or anything close to that. I don't see what that adds to the debate, and personally, I try to be a positive force in life, not a negative one.

You on the other hand have no qualms about passing judgement on others it seems, even when that judgement is to serve your own interests and adds nothing to the discussion at hand. Have I wronged you in some way? Have I done the same to you? I don't remember doing so, but if I had I am sure I would apologize for it.

The link between spanking and deviant behavior that I know about was a study done with rats, I said I'd be curious to see statistics on humans on a much grander scale. Why? Because I am curious. Would it change my mind? I am not sure. Lets say that being spanked meant you were some % less likely to become a deviant, does that make it right? I am not in a position to make that call. Public executions may reduce the murder rate (I have no idea, just using this as an example) but it doesn't mean I would push to reinstate that. Just like if the Taliban proved that theft in their country was lower than in the US (I wouldn't be surprised if it is) I wouldn't say that cutting off people's hands for stealing is a good thing.

What do I want to get out of the debate then? Do I want to change Bikinimom's mind? No. (although I would be slightly more happy if I did) I enjoy talking about topics, debating them, especially the controversial ones because people tend to be more passionate about them and you get more involvement in the discussion.

But again, I do not see the need nor the place for the personal attacks.

Again, I apologize for coming off as dismissing and condecending, not just to you, but to everyone in this thread (and I am unfortunately sure that this won't be the last time that I need to offer up such an apology).

 

[Lestat]

jnev, just know, you'll continue to get the same respect from me, regardless of the personal attacks, I don't hold it against you.

 

[Bikini Mod]

being the oldest gnome on here or so. I can say, until you have raised a little fuckling and had to deal with what to do with your child, then STFU. Kinda like the priest trying to explain what an orgasm feels like for a woman.

Or ANY man for that matter...

It's all good.

You are anti-spanking and I am not (when the situation calls).

Fact of the matter is that IF someone can show me an effective alternative means of negative reinforcement (and I am talking AFTER all of the other means that I know of) then I would GLADLY take the corporal punishment OUT of the equation. Till then... don't pass judgment is all that I am saying.

As I said, you were abused physically as a child yet YOU are VERY ANTI-spanking. I was *merely* spanked as a child and yet I support spanking.

That is only us two...

I suppose that the debate will rage on endlessly... the debate of what influences negative behavior more: nature or nurture?

My sister left the United States due in part to the fact that she felt she could not raise her children properly here. She has NO QUALMS about physically disciplining her children (nor the rest of our country - our = Magyar Orszag) and yet as a whole the children are far more well-behaved and respectfull than those children in the US. So what can someone like LeStat say about this?

As I said, "Show me the way and I will gladly follow." Quoting studies about lab rats won't do it. I know you spoke of two people that you grew up with. MY EXPERIENCES and those of EVERYONE I KNOW are starkly different.

I do hope (with deepest sincerity) that you will be able to come back here in 20 years and BRAG about how you *found the answer*. I do hope quite sincerely that I will be able to read about your work and pass that knowledge onto every single human being I know. But until that time... I remain skeptical... and rightfully so.

 

[Lestat]

bikini, im glad to know you view spanking as the last resort, better than it being your go to punishing, or something you feel you had to get in daily (sad to say some people feel this way)

 

[jnevin]

just know, you'll continue to get the same respect from me, regardless of the personal attacks, I don't hold it against you.

lol

How's a picture a personal attack?

 

[Lestat]

lol

How's a picture a personal attack?

i edited my reply to take out the pic, it wasn't a response to the picture, but a comment on the way you lashed out in this thread (and others before this one).

 

[needtogetarmy]

Lestat is a good bro. He just needs to be spanked. Where the hell is pick3 when you need him?

 

[Bikini Mod]

bikini, im glad to know you view spanking as the last resort, better than it being your go to punishing, or something you feel you had to get in daily (sad to say some people feel this way)

Hell yes...

It is *too easy* to hit a child in anger, then what? Put their head through a wall because they REALLY did something to warrant punishment?

It is very very very sad that so many parents only know to lash out when a child *pisses them off* but are completely clueless as to how to *catch them and praise them for doing something RIGHT*.

Little kids REALLY push an adult's buttons. Not that they are intentionally doing it but let me tell you, when you are tired, haven't slept in days, your boss is an asshole, your spouse won't get off your ass for dumb shit, you haven't had *yours in goodness knows when* and you have NO CLUE how you are going to pay the mortgage - believe you me, THE LAST THING YOU NEED is to have a child screaming about how they lost their binkie, shit their diaper AGAIN but they will scream because they have an UNGODLY RASH (even though you bathe and change them religiously), they kick you hard and pee on you, or they scream all night after they have thrown up AGAIN and couldn't put their head in that fucking trashcan and you have wash ALL of their shit AGAIN and your asshole boss doesn't give a fat rat's ass because you have a presentation in the morning and motherfucker you had better sell those clients or you WILL be terminated..... Go ahead, take a deep breath and smile while saying, "It's ok sweetheart... all is right in the world." Wait until the first time that kid calls you a bitch because he heard his friend say it to HIS mom... (ALL bullshit reasons to hit a child IMHO but it happens every day, doesn't it?)

Feel what I am saying?

And that is THE EASY SHIT.... don't let me get to school or heaven forbid - TEEN YEARS AND HORMONES...

.... Good God this post wore me out so much I want to sleep for like the next 10 years.... so g'head now... PARENT...

*sigh*

 

[mountain muscle]

I still spank myself when I am naughty.

 

[jerseyrugger76]

While I never intend to raise a child of my own (for a variety of reasons besides the obvious), I must say that I'd knock that unrepentant little fucker into next week if that were my child. Not only would he not see the light of day for about 6 months, I'd seriously start investigating military schools.

Parents today absolutely do not discipline their kids and it annoys me to no end. They let those fuckers run-a-muck in church, in Starbucks, at the grocery store (i.e. basically anywhere there are people to aggravate). My parents were far from the strictest human beings on earth, but they wouldn't put up with me throwing a fit in public. And god forbid I tried to pull anything with my grandmother, she'd go out back and get a switch!

 

[ceo]

I'm curious to get AAP's opinion on this particular matter!

 

[Bikini Mod]

While I never intend to raise a child of my own (for a variety of reasons besides the obvious), I must say that I'd knock that unrepentant little fucker into next week if that were my child. Not only would he not see the light of day for about 6 months, I'd seriously start investigating military schools.

Parents today absolutely do not discipline their kids and it annoys me to no end. They let those fuckers run-a-muck in church, in Starbucks, at the grocery store (i.e. basically anywhere there are people to aggravate). My parents were far from the strictest human beings on earth, but they wouldn't put up with me throwing a fit in public. And god forbid I tried to pull anything with my grandmother, she'd go out back and get a switch!

Or remember when you had to go get YOUR OWN SWITCH?

You know, I have been thinking about this thread since I first posted and I have formulate a question:

I wonder if the children who are spanked and turn out *negatively* turn out that way not because they were spanked but because the same parents who spanked them did not also use POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT.

I do believe in spanking, but only as a last resort after other means of punishment have been exhausted. But I also do believe that ANY negative reinforcement should be far < than praise and other forms of positive reinforcement when that child is doing wrong.

Discipline means GUIDANCE. Punishment (I believe) should be the part guidance that is far less employed and greatly overshadowed by praise as discipline is only PART of .... LOVE, but a great part of love nonetheless.

When a child is corrected for negative behavior that HE KNOWS WAS WRONG he should be made to feel shame and humiliation and should be taught to not only be sorry for what he did but also to try to rectify the situation. The opposite side of that coin is FORGIVENESS. These are all intricate parts of the learning process, no step can be negated for someone to become a functional and happy part of society.

If only more parents took the time to consider how daunting a task parenting was, how great a commitment not only to the child, but to society at large then there would be fewer people (IMO) that would choose to bring a child here just because they WANT to spread their seed.

Maybe I am nuts, but I do believe that we are SUPPOSED to leave this planet a better place then the way we found it to be once we became aware that we are here. That isn't the case if we bring children here then purposely fuck them up because it becomes too overwhelming to handle them.

And yes, I know I am being Captain Obvious here when I state that too many babies are brought here merely because they are a bi-product of a sex act.

 

[puddlemonkey]

Parents today absolutely do not discipline their kids and it annoys me to no end. They let those fuckers run-a-muck in church, in Starbucks, at the grocery store (i.e. basically anywhere there are people to aggravate). My parents were far from the strictest human beings on earth, but they wouldn't put up with me throwing a fit in public. And god forbid I tried to pull anything with my grandmother, she'd go out back and get a switch!

x10,000



Its those damn non-spankers!!!

 

[jnevin]

I just randomly clothesline punch kids in the face when I'm walking down the street.

 

[needtogetarmy]

I'm curious to get AAP's opinion on this particular matter!

AAP has been quiet lately with his anti-blaque rants. I wonder if he is now enlightened and realizes the errors of his ways...