I reviewed the thread on mindandmuscle, and it is a funny and informative thread. IMHO lwellyn is coming off more like the horse's ass. I mean how many times has Pat's work been ripped off by others and now they are all crying because he jumped in with the formasin? And at least he has made some efforts to fund some studies. Pat seems like the better businessman and researcher / innovator. I am not trying to kiss any ass here just look through the thread and review the history. It's kind of interesting from a business perspective. And when you think about it my guess is Pat has made good money from this biz, so at least if congress pulls the rug out from under him, he will probably be ok. Hopefully nobody will be left floating a boat. Its always tough to be on top. But maybe that is why Pat seems able to refute some of the attacks with a little more class, or maybe he just has better character in general. But I am sure it grows tiresome for him.
Well, competition is a good thing and lywellyin has made some contributions to the industry, too. Of course many think the whole PH area is bunk and all these guys are rip-off artists. I don't quite see it that way but in free markets the buyer should beware. Not to worry, soon it will all be completely regulated to the joy of the idiot politicians, joe public, and the black market profiteers (but thank god for them).
Now about the specifics of the study - the posted data was very sparse but it seems Pat is one of the few that actually tries to fund some studies from time to time, so at least give him credit for that.
As was quoted from the study on normal men (not on a cycle or anything, and not recovering from a cycle), 6OXO doubled T while holding E about constant. So the results indicate certainly a degree of effectiveness which other OTC products would be challenged to substantiate.
Since e = T * A, if T doubled, e stayed the same, A (rate) must have been cut in half.
Now the issue is how does it compare to Rx products for on-cycle use. Like my cost analyses showed 6OXO may not be cost effective for typical t-based steriod cycles, depending on your Rx choice and source. But I have not a clue as to how it ranks in effectiveness vs. Rx products in typical dosages. It has been said by many in defense of anti-e products vs. those who say that no anti-e is preferable, that even with anti-e usage, actual e levels generally stay in a normal range because of the increase in substrate, and thus the use of the anti-e is just to prevent e from getting out of hand, not to eliminate e entirely. So this argument kind of supports the results from the 6-OXO study. To say it is has no effectiveness based on these results is not accurate.
Among the new OTC suicide a-inhibitors, the Formasin product appears cheaper and if it is of similar potency to 6OXO, therefore more cost effective. But is it an effective anti-e, and at what oral potency? Well from my review there is a ton of research showing it is effective, since it is an Rx medication used in breast cancer. However, the Rx version is typically injectable. I do not know if there are any isues with oral availability but since the Rx form is injectable, it raises a question in my mind. Also formasin may have interactions with aspects of T metabolism and tamoxifen clearance because of how it interacts with other metabolic pathways. You see, in general there is more data on formasin, which raises some questions about its use for this purpose, since it has a broader Rx and research history.
For post-cycle use all the feedback for 6OXO from people who have actually tried it, seems very good, and this includes people using it to come off regular roid cycles, as compared to other Rx products. And in this scenario it seems cost effective because it seems to work quickly. But remember you are the guinea pig.
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